[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)

[davelin]

I didn't replace any of the core cards in the deck with wishes. I opted not to play the redundant and subpar cantrip that is preordain.

Understood but cantrips help you find the core cards while Burning Wish can neither help you find the core cards and continue to go off, nor replace any of the core cards themselves.

[phazonmutant]

I respectively disagree. ANT can easily go off turn 2 or 3 with a combination of rits, artifact mana and an infernal tutor and additional cantrips helps immensely getting there. Burning Wish cannot dig or replace one of these parts, the best it can achieve is generate 10-12 goblin tokens.

Say it's turn three and you have Infernal Tutor, 2 rits, 2 petals and two lands in play. The game is over, you've won. Replace any of these instead with Burning wish and you can only just EtW for a bunch. Again maybe it's my unfamiliarity with the deck but I don't see how it's just as fast as Prosak-ANT and more resilient at the same time.

It always feels like flying on the seat of your pants, but Empty is really good against a lot of the field right now. All the BUG, Jund, and Thresh decks have at most 1 answer to Empty main, if you can keep Blade off of Batterskull it's good against them (and you'll still race as long as you can empty for 14 the turn before they drop SFM or 18 the turn they drop SFM).

However, besides the Cabal Ritual nonbo, the biggest problem I have with Burning Wish builds is that because ANT doesn't play Silence, it's not an efficient use of space to play IGG or Diminishing Returns in the board to wish for. With TES, I wish for DimRet a lot and it's pretty nuts. So davelin is right in that BW is harder to convert into a kill in TNT.

[Tammit67]

Understood but cantrips help you find the core cards while Burning Wish can neither help you find the core cards and continue to go off, nor replace any of the core cards themselves.

If you have a grim tutor in the board, Burning wish is a core card. Heck, dropping 16 goblins turn 2 is enough against a decent portion of the field.

[davelin]

If you have a grim tutor in the board, Burning wish is a core card. Heck, dropping 16 goblins turn 2 is enough against a decent portion of the field.

Thought about that as well but that line is a little too slow to be useful. Burning wish seems best used to fetch an answer to a threat or EtW

[Patrunkenphat7]

If people think Empty is a good card, play it main and play Grims. The Burning Wish version is the worst version of this deck at the Past in Flames kill. That's really what this deck is, so I can't get behind it. If you want to have access to Empty, play it over the Ad Nauseam in the main and play 2 Grim Tutors. Burning Wish ANT is basically a slower TES that plays discard over Silence and is worse at Empty and Ad Nauseam. The thing you gain is a decent PiF kill, but that is worse than every other ANT variant. Burning Wish ANT just doesn't seem to have a focus of what it wants to do.

[Jay_Gatz]

Understood but cantrips help you find the core cards while Burning Wish can neither help you find the core cards and continue to go off, nor replace any of the core cards themselves.

Wish finds you an engine, the tendrils, or a discard spell game one and game two often finds a tutor.

However, besides the Cabal Ritual nonbo, the biggest problem I have with Burning Wish builds is that because ANT doesn't play Silence, it's not an efficient use of space to play IGG or Diminishing Returns in the board to wish for. With TES, I wish for DimRet a lot and it's pretty nuts. So davelin is right in that BW is harder to convert into a kill in TNT.

Iggy is in the board more to board in as a replacement engine and I agree it isn't a the best. And everyone still seems to be talking like burning wish replaces something essential to the deck. 12 cantrips are more than enough to play this deck, whenever I've played the 16 cantrip version I feel like preordained are only in the deck to sideboard out.

[Patrunkenphat7]

Wish finds you an engine, the tendrils, or a discard spell game one and game two often finds a tutor.



Iggy is in the board more to board in as a replacement engine and I agree it isn't a the best. And everyone still seems to be talking like burning wish replaces something essential to the deck. 12 cantrips are more than enough to play this deck, whenever I've played the 16 cantrip version I feel like preordained are only in the deck to sideboard out.

When you Wish for PiF or Iggy, you have to also have an Infernal Tutor. You can't wish for Ad Nauseam. What other "engines" are there? You can get Emtpy, but that's not an engine, and to me that seems like its only good use (as well as grabbing a win con when you flip off Ad Nauseam).

[Lemnear]

When you Wish for PiF or Iggy, you have to also have an Infernal Tutor. You can't wish for Ad Nauseam. What other "engines" are there? You can get Emtpy, but that's not an engine, and to me that seems like its only good use (as well as grabbing a win con when you flip off Ad Nauseam).

Diminishing Returns?!

[Pdingo]

Guys pls don't talk about BW and a good target for an ANT SB here in this Treath, when you do, don't play this Deck and Play TES... omg. TES is alot better BW Deck;)
Can't see those comment anymore^^

[davelin]

When you Wish for PiF or Iggy, you have to also have an Infernal Tutor. You can't wish for Ad Nauseam. What other "engines" are there? You can get Emtpy, but that's not an engine, and to me that seems like its only good use (as well as grabbing a win con when you flip off Ad Nauseam).

Exactly, usually you need to tutor for an engine and a finisher usually same turn. A single infernal can do this, a single Burning wish cannot.

[Patrunkenphat7]

Diminishing Returns?!

This is less of an engine and more of an escape button that you don't need as much with this deck but is necessary with TES because of the awkward situations you get in against discard.

[Jay_Gatz]

You generally wish for PiF before you're ready to go off and you don't always need a tutor. Going off using cantrips is generally safe

[Lemnear]

This is less of an engine and more of an escape button that you don't need as much with this deck but is necessary with TES because of the awkward situations you get in against discard.

Against Discard wishing for PIF is golden in TES. DR isn't a panic button but best used turn 1 or 2 if EtW isn't an Option or the stormcount too low for EtW. You have clearly no idea of the application of Diminishing Returns in TES.

[bondfan]

Can we stop taking about TES cards in the ANT thread? I recently picked up ANT after realizing TES has way too high variance for my taste. How do people feel about tropical island over the 2nd island?

[Patrunkenphat7]

Against Discard wishing for PIF is golden in TES. DR isn't a panic button but best used turn 1 or 2 if EtW isn't an Option or the stormcount too low for EtW. You have clearly no idea of the application of Diminishing Returns in TES.

I completely understand the application of Diminishing Returns, but it is bad in this deck, and it is unreliable in TES. I have played TES for a long time and understand the benefits and pitfalls of this card. Also, wishing for PiF is not "golden," unless they happen to take your tutor and leave you with a bunch of fast mana and a Burning Wish...

This deck is a different beast, so we need to stop trying to port all these ideas over from TES, because the deck will become a bad TES.

In response to Tropical Island, I find the 2nd basic Island to be very important. I play my Trop in the SB. Some people play Trop main and Bayou SB, but Bayou is actually very bad with Abrupt Decay, so in my opinion there isn't much reason to devote a slot to that card.

[Jay_Gatz]

I completely understand the application of Diminishing Returns, but it is bad in this deck, and it is unreliable in TES. I have played TES for a long time and understand the benefits and pitfalls of this card. Also, wishing for PiF is not "golden," unless they happen to take your tutor and leave you with a bunch of fast mana and a Burning Wish...

This deck is a different beast, so we need to stop trying to port all these ideas over from TES, because the deck will become a bad TES.

If they make you discard your tutor and you wish for PiF shouldn't you be happy?
I've never needed or really wanted a second island, trop main is fine.

[Patrunkenphat7]

If they make you discard your tutor and you wish for PiF shouldn't you be happy?
I've never needed or really wanted a second island, trop main is fine.

Oh absolutely, that was my point. But a competent opponent isn't going to do that.

[mishima_kazuya]

I changed it up and ran AnT to a top 8 finish at the Philadelphia Legacy Series in Top Deck Games.

41 players showed and I went 4-2 in the swiss, due to poor game planning.
Maindeck was a pretty stock version with one Grim Tutor.

[Dark Ritual]

If they make you discard your tutor and you wish for PiF shouldn't you be happy?
I've never needed or really wanted a second island, trop main is fine.

Likewise. The odds of naturally drawing the tropical island are quite low, and I personally rarely feel the need for a 2nd basic island as well. Tropical island is a mainstay in my ANT maindeck. On the fence about bayou maindeck, may replace it with another tropical island so as to cast cantrips with it not to mention trop is generally just as good at casting abrupt decay as bayou is.

TES is the burning wish deck of choice unless you want to learn DDFT. Seriously, burning wish cabal ritual are a nombo. Not to mention it makes ad nauseam even worse when you run 11 two drops in the deck in the form of 4 CRit's, 4 IT's, 3 BW.

Wish is super clunky. I don't see why people ever try to run it over grim tutor besides the price argument. Wish doesn't find any business at all short of you having wish + IT in hand, and then I would generally prefer to have just IT + rituals. When burning wish often grabs grim tutor, why run it over that anyways as well. It's nice to have an out to hatebears game 1, but that's about the only good thing about wish.

[davelin]

I changed it up and ran AnT to a top 8 finish at the Philadelphia Legacy Series in Top Deck Games.

41 players showed and I went 4-2 in the swiss, due to poor game planning.
Maindeck was a pretty stock version with one Grim Tutor.

Congrats!