[Deck] GW/x Maverick

[_erbs_]

I'll take questions and if there is enough interest, I'll write a report.

Congrats on the finish! just several questions and hope you could answer them.

1. Why SoFaF over SoFI or 2nd Jitte or Batterskull in the maindeck. SoFI gives you draw and removal when it connects, as to SoFaF discard and untapping of lands, was the pro green and black the reason for picking it ?

2. Seeing your build taxes people running 2 aven, 3 thalia and 4 wasteland. how effective was it ?. Im a mav player aswell and used to run 3-4 thalia in the main's but now that DRS is printed the taxing route somewhat isn't that strong unless you land all the pieces early on in the game. With my experience in playing that route it seldom happens unless your very lucky in shuffling. And when thalia comes in the late games its just a 2/1 1st striker. I know thalia's main purpose is for combo hate, how relevant is to let say running mirran saders main and putting thalia on the side against combo and RUG.

3. Why is the singleton sylvan library better over running dark confidant's ?

Thanks

[Richard Cheese]

Garruk was great when I needed the card advantage, much in the same way Lingering Souls is needed for extra card advantage. I brought it in against Affinity since from the Modern PTQ season, people figured out that Affinity had trouble beating multiple 1/1 Fliers, so obviously the same logic worked versus Legacy Affinity.

There also a few times in fair match ups, where we figured out that assembling Air Elemental ended the game since the opposing deck didn't have a good answer. Like back last Winter/Spring, my playgroup always wanted at least one Lingering Souls in the maindeck of Stoneblade since just playing Air Elemental was enough to win a game. Against my Junk opponent, I payed 7 mana for 4 power in the air which was enough for him to make awkward attacks and Deathrite Shaman activations so that he didn't die from combat damage.

I would play Elspeth over Garruk Relentless, but the 2WW casting cost is pretty hard to manage in a three color Wasteland deck that has a Cavern of Souls in it.



I was fine with only have one Jitte in the 75.
I haven't jammed a lot of matches against Punishing Fire decks, but I think I am 50/50 or less than 50/50 against them. If they got to the long game where they had a lot of mana and a Grove of the Burnwillows, it was usually hard to win. If the game went long, but I saved my Wastelands for Grove of the Burnwillows or if I choked them on mana through Thalia/Wasteland/Aven Mindcensor then I was usually advantaged to win.

Also having some Oozes and Deathrite Shamans helps to exile Punishing Fires, but that rarely happens since they either kill those two creatures or you untap and win with those creatures.

That's perfect. I was actually wondering specifically about Garruk vs. Elspeth and if it was just a casting cost thing, but wasn't verbose enough with my question, so thanks for being a mind reader.

[Barook]

What's the plan of the Vial build once Jitte doesn't legend rule itself anymore? Just Revokers and SB O-Rings doesn't seem too hot in dealing with it.

Any results on the DD + Stage combo yet? I think it might have its benefits in certain match-ups. E.g. I found it rather frustrating yesterday to lose against 12post between Crop Rotations and especially Pithing Needle (3 useless, early Wastelands) while a fast 20/20 token would have taken down the game rather easily due early WW + protection.

[Moose8583]

Hey I have a Punishing Maverick list that I have been playing for a while and I have been having really good results with it and most of my match-ups against fair decks is really good I almost always win 2-0, 2-1... but I was wondering if there is anything I could add in the main deck to make the combo match up less awful because to win against combo I have to have a nut hand AND they have to pull slow or bad.

Artifact (3)
1xBatterskull
1xSword of Light and Sha..
1xUmezawa's Jitte

Creature (20)
4xBirds of Paradise
1xGaddock Teeg
4xKnight of the Reliquary
3xMother of Runes
2xQasali Pridemage
1xScavenging Ooze
1xScryb Ranger
4xStoneforge Mystic

Enchantment (3)
3xSylvan Library

Instant (7)
3xPunishing Fire
4xSwords to Plowshares

Sorcery (4)
4xGreen Sun's Zenith

Land (23)
1xDryad Arbor
2xForest
3xGrove of the Burnwillo..
1xKarakas
1xMaze of Ith
1xPlains
4xSavannah
1xTaiga
3xWasteland
4xWindswept Heath
2xWooded Foothills

Also I was thinking about dropping a stoneforge, sword, and scryb ranger, for either 1 mother, 2 goyf, or 3 goyf

but anything you guys have to say to make it better would be much appreciated.

[Philipp2293]

No offense, but that's a weak question to ask when you're not even running Thalia.

[Moose8583]

No offense, but that's a weak question to ask when you're not even running Thalia.

Well what would you take out for thalia and how many would you add

[Philipp2293]

From your list I would start cutting the 3rd Library and then shave some Stoneforges. I would, at minimum play 3, if you expect to face combo in your meta I'd run 4.

[mishima_kazuya]

From your list I would start cutting the 3rd Library and then shave some Stoneforges. I would, at minimum play 3, if you expect to face combo in your meta I'd run 4.

If you expect to play a lot of combo, then cut the Punishing Fire package entirely for Thalias.

You can still beat fair decks without Punishing Fire

[ironclad8690]

Hey I have a Punishing Maverick list that I have been playing for a while and I have been having really good results with it and most of my match-ups against fair decks is really good I almost always win 2-0, 2-1... but I was wondering if there is anything I could add in the main deck to make the combo match up less awful because to win against combo I have to have a nut hand AND they have to pull slow or bad.

Artifact (3)
1xBatterskull
1xSword of Light and Sha..
1xUmezawa's Jitte

Creature (20)
4xBirds of Paradise
1xGaddock Teeg
4xKnight of the Reliquary
3xMother of Runes
2xQasali Pridemage
1xScavenging Ooze
1xScryb Ranger
4xStoneforge Mystic

Enchantment (3)
3xSylvan Library

Instant (7)
3xPunishing Fire
4xSwords to Plowshares

Sorcery (4)
4xGreen Sun's Zenith

Land (23)
1xDryad Arbor
2xForest
3xGrove of the Burnwillo..
1xKarakas
1xMaze of Ith
1xPlains
4xSavannah
1xTaiga
3xWasteland
4xWindswept Heath
2xWooded Foothills

Also I was thinking about dropping a stoneforge, sword, and scryb ranger, for either 1 mother, 2 goyf, or 3 goyf

but anything you guys have to say to make it better would be much appreciated.

Which combo decks do you find yourself losing to more often?

[Moose8583]

Which combo decks do you find yourself losing to more often?

Ive gotten 1-2 by storm and 0-2, 0-2 by sneak and show 2-3 times, 1-2 dredge; I think those are the only ones Ive played, well I 2-1 painter.

[ironclad8690]

My suggestion would be to add mindcensor, thalia, or more scavenging oozes/Gaea's cradle. It really is not that bad to play thalia and punishing fire together.

[Goin Aggro]

There is really no way getting around it. You need Thalia to beat combo.

Yes, it's anti-synergistic with Punishing, but Thalia, along with Canonist, are the cards that give most combo builds fits.

If you wanted to keep the Punishing mainboard, I'd have in the SB 4 Thalia, 2 Canonist, and the 4th Wasteland and a way to bring them all in for G2/G3.

With your current build, you're basically scooping G1 to combo, and unless you board in something close to what I've outlined, you're not doing much better G2/G3

[Moose8583]

There is really no way getting around it. You need Thalia to beat combo.

Yes, it's anti-synergistic with Punishing, but Thalia, along with Canonist, are the cards that give most combo builds fits.

If you wanted to keep the Punishing mainboard, I'd have in the SB 4 Thalia, 2 Canonist, and the 4th Wasteland and a way to bring them all in for G2/G3.

With your current build, you're basically scooping G1 to combo, and unless you board in something close to what I've outlined, you're not doing much better G2/G3

Ive added two Thalia in the main considering 3

[ironclad8690]

Remember you can punishing fire your own guys vs dredge to get rid of their bridges from below.

[TiltingKitty]

Ive added two Thalia in the main considering 3

Against the fast combo decks, if you don't have a hate piece in the first ~10 cards off the top, you're as good as done. Two copies might as well be none at all. Most decklists with Thalia in the maindeck, if they don't run four, go down to three at the minimum usually with the fourth in the side.

Don't bother with Goyfs. If you need a Dredge killer, 4x Rest in Peace out of the board is as good as any, and can be boarded in against Storm too (you're cutting a lot of dead cards like the STPs and the entire SFM package anyway).

[Giants1990]

I stumbled hard against BG Elves with Natural Order into Progenitus/ Craterhoof Behemoth this weekend. I had Teeg, Canonist, Thalia and still got crushed. Is this matchup that difficult, or is there something I'm missing?

[Koby]

I stumbled hard against BG Elves with Natural Order into Progenitus/ Craterhoof Behemoth this weekend. I had Teeg, Canonist, Thalia and still got crushed. Is this matchup that difficult, or is there something I'm missing?

Jitte. You need Jitte.

[Giants1990]

Had Jitte but didn't see that or Stoneforge. He was also maindecking Viridian Shaman

[ironclad8690]

Just won a local legacy 10 man tourney with Vial Mav.

List is basically M@verick's but with a couple minor altercations (since there is no combo in my meta).

Round 1: Infect. Stoneforges jittes and swords of fire ice all day 2-0

Round 2: Bug Delver. Phyrexian revoker and wastelock won this round 4-0

Round 3: Death and taxes. Very close, he got mana screwed game 3 and I rode knights and stoneforges to victory 6-1

Round 4: Deathblade. Very interesting build, he had 4 geists main I believe, and got them every game. No confidants. I won game 1 with equips and very grindy 1 damage here one damage there. Games 2 and 3 I lost to removal and jaces. 7-3

Luckily, I was the only undefeated in the final round, and my loss didn't matter due to breakers. I am a little worried about the deathblade match though, I thought it would be easier than esper but it is still very tough when playing a skilled pilot. Deathrite shaman single handedly invalidates much of your strategy by making wastelands awkward and turning knight into a bear.

[ivanpei]

Just won a local legacy 10 man tourney with Vial Mav.

Luckily, I was the only undefeated in the final round, and my loss didn't matter due to breakers. I am a little worried about the deathblade match though, I thought it would be easier than esper but it is still very tough when playing a skilled pilot. Deathrite shaman single handedly invalidates much of your strategy by making wastelands awkward and turning knight into a bear.

Dark Depths-Thespian's Stage. Running just 1 of each is enough to make sure Knight= GG. It's July now guys, time to play the combo.

I'm still convinced of a higher DD-TS count with crop rotations, but that's me since from my testing, the combo is absolutely critical for ambush wins against opponents and against Deathrites. Against Bug/jund, Decay can't touch your Marit Lage and Liliana is unlikely to kill the token because you can Eot activate TS. Also against Miracles, STP/Terminus can deal with the token, but if you time it right, you can catch them off guard. Also removal will very likely be spent early to deal with Mom, Knight, Thalia etc.