Yes thank you for suggesting both are equal in case the opponent has no counter.Originally Posted by emidln
But wait.
How about, the more likely scenario where you and your opponent have a counter and there is a resolved EC in play?
RH is also better in rare, rare cases where you must win with Emrakul and you have not access to Trickbind.
There are scenarios, mentioned before (e.g. Thalia), where RH is less good.
Lists with counters rarely play Canonist though.
If they have a counter then they counter pongify or slaughter pact. Letting it resolve to maybe counter dream halls or snt turns on a fistful of counter magic well before they might lose to a slaughter pact trigger (if the player can't trickbind or fetch sea). An opponent can't risk EC's removal turning on the omni players main game plan because those odds are highly unfavorable for the control player.
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
Thats' right; it means you gain 1 turn with Pongify vs SP:
EoT (opponent): Pongify / Countered
You turn: SnT (omnisciance or DH) or cast DH
Your next turn: ETI
You turn: SP / Countered
You next turn: SnT (omnisciance or DH) or cast DH
Your following turn: ETI
New poster here. I don't follow.... aren't you still talking the corner case where they have Canonist and counter spells? Should we make card choice decisions based on the more common Thalia case?
Any tips on mulliganing? Are hands with island plus cantrips generally considered keepers, or do you look for at least one combo piece in your opener?
Wheels fell off a little this week at our local Legacy tournament. Made some mistakes that cost me games, but at least I recognized them, heh.
Played Emidln's list with -1 Trickbind / +1 Intuition in the board.
Round 1 - vs Mono W Stax
Ugh, these decks seem to be a tough matchup for us. Chalices, Trinispheres, Thorn/Sphere effects from the board sound hellish for us to play against.
Game 1: He wins the die roll (this is a common theme this tournament - I actually win 0 die rolls yesterday, heh). Opens with Wasteland and passes. I look at my hand of Brainstorm, Ponder, Ponder, and go whew at least I get to cast one. Play an island and pass. T2, he plays Ancient Tom-> Crucible of Worlds. Woohoo! I cantrip, cantrip, cantrip, and kill on T4 with Dream Halls.
-3 Pact of Negation
-1 Flusterstorm
-1 Intuition
-1 Cunning Wish
+1 Wipe Away
+1 Rushing River
+4 Hand Disruption Package
Game 2: He again opens with a Wasteland and I lead with a cantrip. T2, he taps 2 mana... for Defense Grid! It resolves and I'm ready to take it up the butt next turn from a disruption piece I can't stop. I keep digging and he doesn't drop a disruption piece! I Duress him and see Smokestack and O-Ring and take the Smokestack since I have a Trickbind in hand. I end up going off with just Show & Tell -> Omniscience -> Trickbind the O-Ring Trigger -> Brainstorm and drop a second Omniscience just in case and leave a Ponder on top of my library (I had no more fetches) and have to pass the turn. The second Omniscience ended up mattering since he had a second O-Ring. Ponder finds me Preordain, play a fetch and crack it, Preordain which tucks away two bad cards... and ETI on the blind draw!
1-0 (2-0)
Round 2 - vs Deathblade
Game 1: He has a T2 Bob into Thoughtseize into V. Clique which just disrupts long enough to get me.
-3 Force of Will
-1 Intuition
-1 Cunning Wish
-1 Trickbind
+4 Hand Disruption Package
+1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
+1 Pact of Negation
Game 2: We both durdle around for awhile and I sculpt a hand that allows me to go off with Dream Halls, but my only protection piece is a Duress. T3, I Duress to set up for a T4 Dream Halls and see: Bob, Jace, FoW, Notion Thief, Stoneforge Mystic. Notion Thief - are you kidding me!?!? Why does Dream Halls have to be symetrical! *shakes fist* . I surreptitiously look at my library and sadly, I have considerably fewer cards due to cantripping + fetching. So, I take the Force of Will and have to sit for a few more turns with the game plan of either finding a counterspell or going off with EtI when he has less cards in the library than I do (so his Notion Thief decks himself). He finds hand disruption for me before I can find any countermagic and I die.
1-1 (2-2)
Round 3 - vs Mono R MUD
Another Chalice deck?!? Damnit!
Game 1: He leads off with a T1 Wasteland and I'm ok with it. He goes T2 Metalworker, T3 reveal Spine of Ish Shah, Mox Opal, Mox Diamond, Voltaic Key, casts the Spine (makes the Show & Tell in my hand happy) and blows up one of my islands. I drop some fetches and dig for the next few turns while he draws mana stones and attacks me with the Metalworker. Show & Tell -> Omni -> EtI ends the game a turn or two later.
-3 Pact of Negation
-1 Flusterstorm
-1 Intuition
-1 Cunning Wish
+1 Wipe Away
+1 Rushing River
+4 Hand Disruption Package
Game 2: He goes T1: City of Traitors -> Grim Monolith -> Metalworker. I think about Forcing the Metalworker, but I decide I don't ultimately care about it. My patience pays off as he goes for a T2 Chalice and I have the Force for it then proceed to go off on my turn.
2-1 (4-2)
Round 4 - vs Imperial Painter
Hooray for playing Islands, right?
Game 1: He goes first and I mull to 6 keeping a hand of Show & Tell, Ponder, Ponder, Fetch, Fetch, Sol Land. Of course, he goes T1 Blood Moon and I die as I draw fetch, fetch, sol land as my only land and get killed by bears.
-3 Force of Will
+1 Rushing River
+1 Wipe Away
+1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Game 2: He drops a T2 Thorn of Amethyst which annoys me, but I have plenty of lands. I fight through two red blasts to go off at 3 life after casting Dream Halls then Rushing River the Thorn away and EtI.
Game 3: He drops an early Top and Painter then tries to REB one of my Islands. I have a double Cunning Wish hand along with my Show & Tell and Cunning Wish for a Pact and let me island die. He plays Imperial Recruiter, finding Jaya Ballard, leaving 1 Mountain open. At this point, I have Cunning Wish, Show & Tell, Omniscience, EtI, Pact, Ponder vs his 3 cards. I gamble on them not being REB/REB/Simian Spirit Guide. I was wrong and lose to my Pact trigger on my upkeep. In hindsight, I should have waited a turn to Cunning Wish for a Force of Will then gone off with double protection. Ah well, we only learn when we're punished for our mistakes, right?
2-2 (5-4)
The deck is already easily disruptable that splashing for underground seas actually make this deck worse.
I haven't found this to be the case. So far, I haven't run into any situations where the Sea screwed me over as opposed to having another basic island.
This deck is a slightly slower combo, can't go off on turn 1 and needs to be built up. Don't you hate getting wastelanded and stifled against RUG
Certainly it's slower than many other combo decks, but against RUG, I actually don't think Stifle/Wasteland are the biggest problems we have.
Other than fetches, Stifle is pretty bad against us and it's usually not too difficult to play around (plus if they're keeping Stifle mana up, that usually delays their threats a turn or two).
Likewise, with all the basics we have, Wasteland really isn't any issue. Like I said, I haven't run into the case yet where I had to play the Sea from my hand, had it Wastelanded, and had it affect the game. When we bring in the hand disruption package, we bring in that basic swamp as well, so that allows us to get a Wasteland-proof source of black mana.
post your list man
Use capitalization and punctuation please. Also, posts require more content than this. Thanks. -zilla
This weekend I played Emidln's deck, just -1 Trickbind / +1 Intuition from the board.
Hi guys, esper player here with some questios about the matchup.
I Will be facing omnishow in the first round of a seasonal top8. How is your matchup against esperblade? Which cards are most problematic for you and which sideboard hate do you experience as most problematic?
thanks in advance!
I don't like MTG, i just like legacy control decks.Esper stoneblade
Very good. Especially once targeted discard comes into play.
Flusterstorm
New OmniTell Player here.
Have some questions about the sideboard slots, namely Rushing River, Sapphire Charm, and Slaughter Pact. I see many lists run all 3 of these in the board, and I guess I'm having a trouble seeing the scenarios where you would want all three of these in the board, instead of just Rushing River, and Slaughter Pact?
Rushing River is there to deal with hatebears and problematic perms after Omniscience or Dream Halls.
Slaughter Pact is the same but is better at dealing with heatbears that need to die prior to going off....
Sapphire Charm seems like the same as Slaughter Pact but not as good as it cost U. Maybe I'm missing some of the other uses of Sapphire Charm.
I'd like to open up SB slots but want to understand better some of these choices before I make any rash decisions.
FYI
This is the SB I'm currently tinkering with.
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Research // Development
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Defense Grid
1 Sapphire Charm
1 Trickbind
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Rushing River
1 Pact of Negation
1 Intuition
I've been contemplating moving Trickbind and Intuition MB and adding Fireminds' Foresight SB + Noxious Revival, but that involves making a cut that I'm not eager to do. Either - 1 Pact of Negation (2 instead of 3), -1 Cantrip (), -1 Dream Halls, -1 Cunning Wish. None of which seem right.
Any thoughts or help on this?
Flamebait removed. -zilla
GundamGuy - multiple bounce/removal spells are there so that you can board in all but Slaughter Pact. Against the men decks, you want to be able to draw into them - you need to be prepared to play through multiple hatebears.
Lejay has a solid list and sideboard with a ton of testing, and if you search back a couple pages, emidlin posted his build which looks a bit different but also is backed by lots of testing. People playing in events seem to have pretty much followed one or the other with only minor changes, so that should give you a feel for what are reasonable "stock" options.
About Firemind's Foresight, Lejay argues that it hasn't proven to be especially necessary. It's only needed with some low-resource Dream Halls wins, but he board in the Leylines against discard to prevent that low-resource situation from happening.
Languages and dates for every set. For all you true pimps.
Flamebait removed. -zilla
GundamGuy - multiple bounce/removal spells are there so that you can board in all but Slaughter Pact. Against the men decks, you want to be able to draw into them - you need to be prepared to play through multiple hatebears. - Missed capitalization
Lejay has a solid list and sideboard with a ton of testing, and if you search back a couple pages, emidlin posted his build which looks a bit different but also is backed by lots of testing. - Run on
People playing in events seem to have pretty much followed one or the other with only minor changes, so that should give you a feel for what are reasonable "stock" options. - Run on. Poor sentence structure.
About Firemind's Foresight, Lejay argues that it hasn't proven to be especially necessary. It's only needed with some low-resource Dream Halls wins, but he board in the Leylines against discard to prevent that low-resource situation from happening. - poor word choice with "about". Should be "in regards"
Since my comment got lost into the eternal abyss of internet quarrels i'm gonna go ahead and post it again.
I'm an esperblade/deathblade player and i have to face Omnishow in the seasonal top 8 of my LGS. How would you describe your matchup against esperblade. Who is favored in the MU?
Also, which deck do you fear most Esper or deathblade and what are the sideboard cards you really don't want to see against you.
I've already read how you board against the deck but haven't found matchup percentages or real descriptions about how the matchup goes so it would be very nice to have some help.
,Thanks in advance!
I don't like MTG, i just like legacy control decks.
How could a match-up percentage be accurate without decklists. In my testing from january to may 2012 the match-up was very good pre board and slightly favourable post board for omnitell but people are now packing a ton of hate against it. A good example is the Brad Nelson vs Tood Anderson VS match in SCG premium. Just watching the deathblade decklist I knew Omniclash would be slaughtered and wrote a comment saying so before even watching the first game.
Asking for a match-up percentage without lists is a nonsense when there is a ton of possible variations.
And no sane omnitell player in this thread would give advice on what crushes him the most.
CLICK HERE FOR THE RULES OF A VERY FUN MULTIPLAYER CASUAL FORMAT
You very likely can build it without spending any money, just out of what you already have.
An example with my (very large) list in a visual form
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