I wont go into too much detail because I'm on my phone, but went 2-1-2 (2 ID) tonight. my loss was to death and taxes in the top eight. I an about 90% sure I played wrong in the top 8 and lost because of it. Country side crusher continues to be very awesome, though allot of times I wish I had bob just to draw cards... I keep forgetting to put maze of ith back into my deck and I'm sure it cost me at least one, maybe two games. also I have missed maelstrom pulse in the board and I may add it back and figure out something to cut. overall I feel pretty good with the deck. like my friend said about his maverick deck, I feel comfortable playing the deck, and I feel like I have the tools to win any match up. I may also play virtues ruin over perish next week due to allot of random white creatures seeing play in my meta.
Originally Posted by Richard Cheese
Because with cycling lands you could get multiple activations per turn.
@Jeff where do you find nantuko monastery to be decent? I'm sure that I have been forgetting aboutit allot, but I haven't activated it in two weeks probably. I just haven't felt the need for it...
Batterskull, early game tarmogoyfs, bloodbraid elves, after a dreams to wipe the board. Just a handful of ideas.
the only issue with bskull and goyf is that it is difficult to hit thresh hold that early in the game where it is relevant
I played in a Legacy event this week on Wednesday and went 4-0-1. My decklist is as followed:
11 Creatures
3 Dark Confidant
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Countryside Crusher
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
22 Spells
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
3 Burning Wish
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Punishing Fire
3 Life from the Loam
2 Devastating Dreams
1 Seismic Assault
27 Lands
2 Taiga
1 Bayou
1 Badlands
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstatined Mire
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Forest
1 Mountain
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Tranquil Thicket
3 Forgotten Cave
4 Wasteland
15 Sideboard
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Great Stable Stag
1 Pyroclasm
1 Devastating Dreams
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Dreadbore
1 Life from the Loam
1 Raven's Crime
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Trinisphere
I've been playing Aggro Loam for a few months now, and I really enjoy the deck. I haven't had to opportunity to play the 4-Color version of the deck because I don't have the funds for the manabase, but I'd play it if I could. That being said, the deck above is what I arrived at with my restrictions.
Round 1 - 4-Color Loam
Game 1 - I've played against my opponent before and most of the time he plays Jund. This is not the case as he goes 2x Mox into Knight of the Reliquary. I play Mox and Decay his guy right away. He gets his loam engine going on his turn and follow up with a dark confidant. He loams for the few turns and I start gaining cards with bob plus attacking. Eventually, I get land a Crusher and get Grove/P. Fires established, killing his second knight. He can't get this third Knight to stick and beaten by Crusher.
Sideboard: -4 Chalice +2 Decay +1 Thrun +1 Great Stable Stag
Game 2 - He starts with Mox, Land, Loam. I play Mox, Land, pass. He dredges and hits a Knight, Wish and Decay, plays his land and another mox then passes. I get 2 Goyfs on the board 2 turns later and ride them to victory.
Side Notes: This was my opponents first time playing the deck. He also took some extended time off from playing Legacy so I'm sure he was extremely rusty.
Round 2 - Dragon Stompy
Game 1 - I lose the dice roll but get a good 7. Mox, Land, Land, Land, Crusher, Bob. My opponent goes Ancient Tomb, Lotus Petal, Trinisphere. Awesome. We draw go for a few turns, I resolve my Bob and he resolves a Koth. My draws get a little better but my mana is horrible by this time with Grove, Badlands, Wasteland. He plays a Karagan Dragonlord, and then drops Blood Moon. I'm pretty thrilled about this and drop Seismic, Killing his Koth then P. Fires his Dragonlord. He's left with no cards in hand, I drop Crusher and win in 2 turns.
Sideboard: -3 Chalice +2 Abupt Decay +1 Thrun
Game 2 - He mulligans and goes turn 1 Chalice. I play mox, waste his land. The next few turns he plays mountains and Magus of the Moon and I play P. Fires to clear the way for Goyf + Crusher beat down. He can't find an Ensnaring Bridge and is beaten down.
Side Notes: I'm very certain that if he doesn't drop Blood Moon in Game 1, I lose to Koth. Also, my memory is little vague on Game 2. I just remember he didn't have a lot of Action.
Round 3 - Storm
Game 1 - Lost the dice roll. He plays Underground, Probe, Probe, pass. I go Mox, Wasteland and he doesn't have a follow up land. I get Loam online and end the game quickly with Crusher.
Sideboard: -2 Abrupt Decay, -2 Punishing Fire, +4 Trinisphere
Game 2 - We both mulligan. My 6 is grand with 2x Trinishpere, Mox, 3x land. He's doubtful of his 6 but keeps anyway. He probes me and is a little disheartened but not worried and passes. I draw Chalice (like a boss) and he just sinks. I then Turn 2 Trinishpere, draw go a few turns and end the game with Goyf.
Side Notes: He tells me he pretty much drew dead in Game 1 and that Trinishpere just ruined him in Game 2.
Round 4 - Burn
ID with Mr. Bobby Kovacs for Top 4. He normally plays Lands.
Top 4 - UW Stoneblade
Game 1 - Played Chalice for 1 that was met with a FoW. I manage to land a Bob while he is mana screwed and doesn't have a white source for StP/PtE. When he does get his white source (Tarn into Tundra) I wasteland it. A few turns later I land a Crusher, attack for lethal, he flashes in V. Clique, I P. Fires it, he scoops.
Sideboard: +1 Thrun +2 Great Stable Stag -3 Tarmogoyf
Game 2 - I go turn 1 Bob, turn 2 Crusher. He lands a stoneforge, that I P. Fires leaving Batterskull in hand. He PtE's my Crusher during attacks and I follow up with Seismic Assault. He plays Geist at some point but I wish for Loam and end the game quickly with Seismic in play.
Side Notes: Me and my opponent know each other, so we both knew what the other was playing. The first game he kept a very land light hand and in game 2 he kept a no counter spell hand. Also, I was very lucky on my Bob triggers. I'd always hit a land with him, then draw gas on my draw step.
Top 2 - Unknown.
We had decided earlier to do a Top 4 split so we decided to not to play the finals. I'm sure I would've had to play the finals had Bobby not lost in top 4 because he loves beating me...
Thoughts on the deck:
Originally, I had 4 Dark Confidant in the deck, but I kept drawing them in multiples a lot and sometimes (due to my carelessness) not having the mana to cast them. 3 seems pretty good right now. The 1 of Thrun was there to test tonight, I replaced Terravore for him. I'm sad to say I never drew him once. I may just take of the Thrun and put in another Crusher. Crusher was outstanding all night and I feel maxing out on him is good. I also used to have Volrath's Stronghold in my 60 but took it out when I added the Grove/P. Fires combo, I'd like to put it back in but I'm not sure what to remove. My sideboard was a little underwhelming tonight. Obviously, the Trinispheres were good against the matchup I needed it but everything else ok. I'm sure that's because I didn't draw many Wishes throughout my matches. I was sad that I didn't see my Great Stable Stags at all. I originally thought we were going to have a lot of Abrupt Decay decks there but the people who normally play them didn't show. I'll probably play this same 75 next week and hope that I play more common decks such as Esper Stoneblade, Show and Tell variants and Deathrite Shaman decks.
Great Sable Stag? Like sweet performance but seriously? What's that card doing?
Can't be Abrupt Decayed or countered. I expected to play against a lot of BUG but didn't.
he still seems underwhelming. he just gets blocked by.goyf...
That's true, he does. As I said, my sideboard was a little underwhelming. Also, I never did draw it when I sided it in.
Had a rough night with Hoogloam last night. Lost to Mono Red Sneak attack. Seems like a Horrid MU for us. Chalice does almost nothing. Teeg is very good, but even post board we only have 3 teeg (Counting GSZ for 2). Also lost to punishing Jund. He just had the T1 DRS, T2 Hymn me taking all of my colored sources and I just never got back into the game. I tried a Hull Breach over Shattering Spree (never really got to wish for anything but Loam...) and Maelstrom Pulse over Reverent Silence. Ill probably try it again Next week. Also as a meta call because of the abundance of white decks I played a Virtues ruin overt the Perish due to usually seeing at least 2 D&Taxes.
Ran this to a 3-1 finish, losing only to bad draws against Jund:
3 Countryside Crusher
3 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
2 Terravore
12
3 Punishing Fires
3 Decay
3 Devastating Dreams
2 Sylvan Library
4 Life from the Loam
3 Seismic Assault
1 Crucible of Worlds
+ can't remember since it's late and I'm running on empty
19
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Blood Mire
2 Mountain
1 Forest
3 Wasteland
2 Forgotten Cave
1 Thicket
3 Taiga
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Badlands
1 Bayou
25
Overall rreally like the list. Chalices were in the board.
-Matt
A couple of ?'s.
Why No Mox Diamond?
Only 3 Wasteland?
1 Crucible? Is it just a 5th somewhat loam effect?
if the Chalices were there, are they fast enough to be effective without Moxen?
I often play turn 2 chalice if I don't have a mox in hand and it works just fine. Matt inspired me to try and find spots for Sylvan Library in the list. 3 Cycle lands sounds low as well, I'm running 5 right now and feel like I rarely see them.
Dont get me wrong, T2 chalice is fine, but I mean against fast combo, DRS decks, and just other decks with like infinite cantrips and such just the ability to play a T1 Chalice on the play and potentially ruin their hand that they may have kept on the back of a brainstorm finding them lands or something is amazing. Also I guess really it is more of a question of why no moxen. The card is extremely synergistic with our strategy and it rampsu us to begin loaming on Turn 1.
Turn one Chalice entails land, other land, Mox, Chalice, three cards that actually do something. Against combo decks, where you most need Chalice, at least one of the extra three cards needs to be a creature - preferably Tarmogoyf, since that hits the sweet spot between cost and being large right out of the gates. So your keepable starting hand is land, land, Mox, Chalice, Goyf, two other cards, which is actually a really specific hand as far as mulligan decisions are concerned. It really doesn't come up that often.
Diamond is also only really good for about the first three turns, and maybe at some point later if you want to DD for almost all of your lands. In the midgame, it's a pretty lousy topdeck.
Three cycling lands seems fine. LftL is a shitastic draw engine - I'd wager it actually gets more work done by dredging you into recurrable card advantage elements than it does doing a bad Harmonize impression. In that case, you only ever need to see one cycling land per game, and you can dredge yourself into it naturally. Running fewer cycling lands also makes running Groves less painful since you're not cutting into fetchable land slots when you add them.
I'm not sure how I feel about the lack of DRS in sdematt's list, but I guess you're either running that or you're running Dreams. Still, no maindeck Chalice and no maindeck one-drops or acceleration strikes me as odd and a little too slow.
It was super late when I typed out the list. The list is missing 4 Mox Diamond.
I want more cycling lands, sure, but I also want good mana development, especially with Dreams now coming back into the deck. I don't want to have a hand full of CipT lands after a Dreams. As well, you don't need as many cyclers since even though DRS can suck up stuff, usually you Dreams or kill their DRS before you start gaining advantage with Loam. Recall you also have the Fires engine to rely on as well.
You don't really want Chalice against every deck, though. I brought in Chalice mostly to fight Extirpate/Surgical/Nihil rather than screwing over the decks I played. It's bad against Gobbos, against Miracles it's only so-so (yes, they run Top and Brainstorm, but I'm not going to keep hands on the draw where if they drop Top before it, I'm fucked).
I liked Chalice where it was. Slaughter Games was ridiculously good since it handles the cards we don't like to see, such as Jace/Entreat out of Miracles, E. Bridge/Nether Void/Liliana against Pox (since I was playing against Pox), etc.
The Crucible was nice because it was the fifth Loam effect. It was sometimes nice not having to rely on a Dredge to be able to get lands back. This replaced Entomb, but I'll be trying the Entomb again since it fetches Loam, a particular Land, Grove, or Punishing Fires.
I'd change my sideboard to this:
2 Slaughter Games
3 Pyroblast
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Darkblast
2 Golgari Charm
2 Rakdos Charm
4 Chalice of the Void
a) You're digging so deep in this deck you'll see one either way.Only 3 Wasteland?
b) I like to run 25-26 lands and run 3 basics and 4 Grove. If the Entomb makes it's way into the main, 3 Grove will be a thing, and Waste will go up to 4 (or 3 Waste 1 Ghost Quarter).
-Matt
Went 2-1 making top 8 at the local tonight. Lost in top 8 to Miracles.
Game 1: Maverick
Game 1 went long, I remember a batterskull coming in and out, and I had a chalice on 1 for a while, but overall my loam and PFire engine took over and I got down a crusher and he and KOTR crushed after a very devastating dreams. Game 2 I lost fairly quickly to Scavenging Ooze if I remember correctly... Kept a sketch hand and got punished for it. Game 3 he had a Mom hand with Karakas as his only white source. I proceeded to PFire Mom, then waste his Savanahh and take out his hierarch and stranded a bunch of green cards in hand.
Match 2: Dredge
Game 1 He had he nut of on the play play LED, cast faithless, discarding Grave troll to the LED, dredge a lot and I just couldnt do too much. Game 2 I had an awkward hand of like Savannah, Bojuka Bog, and a wasteland, a chalice of the void, and 2 Burning Wishes. I ended up Keeping and Bog slowed him down but he pressured me with Putrid Imp who kept the gas going. I missed his cabal therapy being countered by one of my chalices. I messed up a couple of times and lost.
Match 3: Team Italia
The guy had never played the deck and was newer to legacy so I was able to capitalize on a lot of mistakes. He fetched up almost exclusively non basics and I wasted him out over a long game 1. I was able to Hull Breach His Batterskull which he Mainphased for some reason. Also he would fetch but not do anything and just pass the turn. So Eventually PFires got him. Game 2 was a bit tougher. He began with lavamancer into SFM, but I wasted his plateau and that was his only colored source for awhile. He then got a scrubland, but extirpated my Wastes. He also got down a Relic of Progenitus to slow my roll down but blew it a bit early I think to shrink a could of KOTRs down. It ended up with me getting down to 4 life after a lingering souls but I got him to 2. Then I ripped a PFire like a champ to finish it the turn before he could kill me.
Top 8: UWR Miracles
Game 1 was rough. He FOW a Chalice and then I drew another, but I couldnt really capitalize. The moment I tap my only green source he lands Blood Moon. I didnt think he had it since I had Abrupt Decay in Hand, and he cliqued me and left the Decay there. So I tapped out of green and I lost. Game 2 I mull to six and he to 5. I go turn 1 double diamond into Thalia, but he finally gets rid of Thalia by FOW her. I never really draw another threat and I get entreated by 4 Angels.
Rough Night overall. That miracles deck is a bad MU for me between MB RIP and Blood Moon. I made a handful of misplays and it hurt me. I also tried something similar to SDE Matt. I tried out 3 Wastelands instead of 4 and I didnt hate it. Also as I said I played a Hullbreach tonight over a Reverent Silence. Next week I may play 61 and play another PFire to go to main board because it is so solid vs so many decks in my meta.
In game 1 your read was reasonable, I'm just a sack and drew Blood Moon for turn.
Not sure if you still read this thread Mr. Hoogland, but if you happen to, could you go over some of your sideboarding thoughts vs certain MUs? I understand SB out dead stuff like decay and PFire vs combo, but but other fair MUs I have a much more difficult time boarding. For example vs miracles you take out PFires. Is that because you just assume RIP will come down to ruin the fun? PFire is a decent answer to grind out a jace. Not quite as clean as wish for dreadbore, but it is a thing. Also just curious if you ever tested the -3 Bob, +1 Library, +1 Stage, +1 Depths.
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