Miracle Control

[oarsman]

café, I can definitely do that sometimes. As I am just starting out, I wanted to play a lot with the deck that some people know me for, since it is probably what they expect to see. But over time I will explore other options.

[KZhang]

Sorry. I'm not very familiar with Twitch.

You are only able to watch the video if it's streaming?

Are you able to watch on replay?

i cant seem to load Oarsman's video.

[twndomn]

Sorry. I'm not very familiar with Twitch.
You are only able to watch the video if it's streaming?
Are you able to watch on replay?
i cant seem to load Oarsman's video.

http://www.twitch.tv/oarsman79/b/430622724

The answer is yes. Assume you're connecting via PC, not mobile, there's an icon on the right says video, click on it, and you'll see a list of recording. This is only possible if the streamer makes recording available.

[Ogh!]

café, I can definitely do that sometimes. As I am just starting out, I wanted to play a lot with the deck that some people know me for, since it is probably what they expect to see. But over time I will explore other options.

Hello Joe,

I just wanted to let you know that I find that you've been doing a great job so far! Although I won't be able to tune in often because I live in Europe I had the pleasure to watch it twice already. You're providing a lot of insight and I'm really tempted to buy some Miracle cards on MTGO thanks to your high quality stream. Although your chat is not too interactive (yet), please keep streaming! And keep countering not counterable creatures, just to show that we're all just human, of course! :)

[Einherjer]

And keep countering not counterable creatures, just to show that we're all just human, of course! :)

Who hasn't done that yet? *remembers GPT at GP Strasbourg. Opponent starts with Cavern, naming Human. Cast Mother of Runes. I Force of Will - ah this was fun*

Joke aside - thanks for the streaming, I think you are really doing a good job! I'd really appreciate it if you tested various Miraclevariants - I just don't have the time to test Miracle as extensively as I did before :(

Greetings

[Adryan]

Really nice to see a good Miracle pilot play on Magic Online :D future of legacy is on Magic Online.

Are 3 Vendilion Clique MD not a little bit too much? I never played more than 1 MD because of the high CMC.

[Valtrix]

And on a somewhat related note... sometimes against GBx, when facing down multiple planeswalkers and creatures, I've wished that I could find a Planar Cleansing type effect.

Oblivion Stone. It "only" costs at most 5 mana cost at one time! Added hilarity with Academy Ruins!

[Cafe_Cafe]

café, I can definitely do that sometimes. As I am just starting out, I wanted to play a lot with the deck that some people know me for, since it is probably what they expect to see. But over time I will explore other options.

Congrats on your work. I'm a big fan of the Helm Combo version but I enjoy very much learning from many decks out there.

A note regarding your video: http://www.twitch.tv/oarsman79/b/430622724 :

At minute 30 your Dredge opponent was about to die. Only 1 card was left in his deck. You had Clique, Venser and Karakas (tapped). Could't hit you for lethal so targeting you with Flayer's ability was pointless. He was supposed to kill the Clique instead. Lucky him you blocked a zombie to remove his Bridges.
What if you blocked with Venser, waited for his draw step, Karakas your Clique and Vendillion him to death? 4 Dryad Arbors were in his graveyard so no chance to miss.

Best regards!

[oarsman]

café-
Thanks for watching. If I correctly understand what you are suggesting, it does not work. You cannot deck someone with Vendilion Clique. With no cards in his deck and one in his hand, flashing in Clique does not change anything. I would choose the card from his hand to be placed on the bottom. His deck would then have a card for him to draw, and it would end up back in his hand.

[twndomn]

café-
Thanks for watching.

I am not sure if I agree with your explanation.

Against dredge, you seem to be pretty optimistic about getting another turn, in general.

Against Delver, I am not sold on your SB strategy. I actually like the other guy's Flusterstorm idea a lot better. All you need to do, is to break a fetch in response to delver's ponder/brainstorm. The delver player will most certainly attempt Stifle, which would in turn make the Flusterstorm in your hand that much better. Delver doesn't have that kind of Mana to pay 3 after he has already spent 2. I once 1-for-3 by doing that. Flusterstorm of course is also excellent against Sneak and Show.

Here's an interesting WUB Miracle list by Omar Nieto, for your consideration.

Maindeck
Creature [4]
4 Snapcaster Mage
Instant [15]
2 Cunning Wish
2 Spell Pierce
3 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
Sorcery [7]
3 Terminus
2 Entreat the Angels
2 Vindicate
Enchantment [4]
4 Counterbalance
Artifact [4]
4 Sensei's Divining Top
Planeswalker [4]
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
Land [22]
4 Island
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Riptide Laboratory
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Underground Sea
3 Tundra
1 Karakas

Sideboard
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Vedalken Shackles
2 Notion Thief
3 Rest in Peace
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Noxious Revival
1 Force of Will
1 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Misdirection
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Thoughtseize

[Cafe_Cafe]

café-
Thanks for watching. If I correctly understand what you are suggesting, it does not work...

I can't believe I said that!
Probably a short circuit in my brain thinking he would dredge or something. I should stop watching when I'm sleepy :P

[oarsman]

twndomn,
Flusterstorm would definitely be nice in some matchups. There are no sideboard cards that I particularly want to cut for it, but I will consider playing one maindeck in place of a Spell Pierce. This will hurt against several matchups, but it will make me stronger against daze/stifle decks. I'll give it a shot.

Against dredge you think I am too optimistic about getting another turn? This is probably referring to the match I played the other night against the manaless build, but can be expanded to any situation. When you know that you cannot beat something, always assume they don't have it.

The deck you posted needs access to a wishable removal spell that can kill something with higher than one toughness. I would probably put one of the Swords into the sideboard and move the Supreme Verdict into the main.


EDIT: Trying one copy of Flusterstorm isn't going to come up often enough for me to figure out whether it is good or not. It is good against some of the same decks as canonist also, so I will replace that too.

[obituary 95]

hey joe i see that you have needle in your board but you never seem to bring it in, what is it there for?

[oarsman]

I bring the needle in against all the tribal decks and anything that has Griselbrand. It can help protect your land by naming Wasteland or Rishadan Port, and it has value when facing some fringe decks like Painter/Grindstone.

[twndomn]

I would like to offer my [unwanted] criticism on the following version:
Joshua Cicio, 13th Place at StarCityGames.com Legacy Open on 7/7/2013

Creatures (1)
1 Vendilion Clique

Planeswalkers (3)
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Lands (21)
5 Island
2 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
3 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
3 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Karakas

Spells (35)
1 Helm of Obedience
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Counterbalance
1 Detention Sphere
3 Rest in Peace
4 Brainstorm
1 Enlightened Tutor
3 Force of Will
1 Path to Exile
3 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Entreat the Angels
1 Ponder
4 Terminus

Sideboard
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Meddling Mage
1 Disenchant
1 Flusterstorm
1 Force of Will
2 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Duress
4 Thoughtseize

First of all, 21 lands!? I'm most uncomfortable when I play a control deck w/ less than 22 lands. 22 is the minimum for me, 23 is on the safer side.

Second, no Venser? Now that M14 rules are in effect, Venser is your best approach to bounce planeswalker(s) you couldn't counter at the first place. Not to mention you are running Rip-Helm, so the ability to bounce RiP when targeted by Abrupt Decay sounds pretty important to me, from mid to late game.

Third, black cards? This deck pretty much splashes black for Thoughtseize/Duress. The obvious reasoning for doing this would be against combo decks. However, that really does not fit with the rest of the decks. I get it, you want to open the turn with a Thoughtseize/Duress, then proceed to drop RiP. However, we all know control decks would take some early beating before control stabilizes. Thoughtseize eats away the notion of using life total as resource, not to mention how frequent we do break-fetch-top.

As I mentioned over and over, key black cards are: Dread of Night, Engineered Plague, Vindicate (especially after M14 rule change), Duress/Inquisition, Massacre, and Notion Thief. People often overlook how strong Massacre is when you play it against Death and Taxes/Stoneforge. An almost Free spell, FREE, to kill Stoneforge and Geist. Recently I've begun to look into Sorin, Lord of Innistrad as experiment, seeing some Europeans are testing it out.

To Scrub or not Scrub, that's the question. I've gone back and forth with Scrubland. Ever since I change it to Swamp, my chance against RUG delver gets a lot better.

[Einherjer]

Dude, we know you like to rant and complain and stuff. And I don't even feel like responding to you any more. But one thing made me smile:

"Joshua Cicio, 13th Place at StarCityGames.com Legacy Open on 7/7/2013"

"Second, no Venser? Now that M14 rules are in effect, Venser is your best approach to bounce planeswalker(s) you couldn't counter at the first place. Not to mention you are running Rip-Helm, so the ability to bounce RiP when targeted by Abrupt Decay sounds pretty important to me, from mid to late game."


Greetings

[alphastryk]

...
First of all, 21 lands!? I'm most uncomfortable when I play a control deck w/ less than 22 lands. 22 is the minimum for me, 23 is on the safer side.
...

21 lands one ponder is fine. I've never wanted a 22nd or had issues hitting my land drops with 21.

[Kyle]

Against RUG, you want to use the first four turns as mana development. Don't actually DO anything. That's the best way I've found to beat them. Once you turn off all their Dazes and such, then nuke them out of the water with removal, RIP, CB, etc.

-Matt

I know this post is old, but I think it warrants bringing back up. It's quite possibly the most useful piece of information I've read in this thread.

[sauce]

21 lands one ponder is fine. I've never wanted a 22nd or had issues hitting my land drops with 21.

i played the 21 land, 1 ponder list for a while. it was very strong... i do enjoy the 22 and 23 land variations though as well.

[sdematt]

I know this post is old, but I think it warrants bringing back up. It's quite possibly the most useful piece of information I've read in this thread.

Thanks. It's the little things that many people don't know that seem to lead to their demise. I think this likely has to do with the fact many people may not have played heavier control decks before, or didn't play in the format years ago when it was a pillar of the metagame.

As a control player, you need to make your land drops. You have 1 life and 19 bonus life to work with, so just make your land drops, don't get countered out of the game needlessly, then crush face with better bombs.

-Matt