[Deck] Dredge

[slave]

I do not play Dredge much, but I am looking into a Legacy deck with this being one of the forerunners in my mind. I was curious to the idea of Street Wraith in either the maindeck or sideboard as an answer to Deathrite Shaman, Surgical Extraction, Scavenging Ooze and other targeted Graveyard hate?

No real benefit in this deck.
LED dredge has the ability to go stupid on T1 with a nut draw, but more likely T2 > whereas a Manaless Dredge build (that has Wraith as an auto-include) can't go off until T2 at the absolute earliest.
Wraith is good, but LED-dredge is just too tight to fit it in I would think.

[Fortunae]

No real benefit in this deck.
LED dredge has the ability to go stupid on T1 with a nut draw, but more likely T2 > whereas a Manaless Dredge build (that has Wraith as an auto-include) can't go off until T2 at the absolute earliest.
Wraith is good, but LED-dredge is just too tight to fit it in I would think.

There are some benefits, but they are outweighed by the negatives. I played with x4 Wraiths for a few months, long enough to get a decent feel for how it operated in the deck. It was nice to always have Ichorid food, and it also helped fuel some very fast starts. But after 5 or 6 dozen matches with it, I realized that it just wasn't as good as any of the cards that it would be replacing.

I like to keep it in mind though, it certainly jives with what the deck is designed to do. But honestly you can be playing with stronger cards.

[Mindlash]

While I understand your sentiment for being anti-Dread Return except for as a sideboard option to combat cards like Surgical Extraction, the affinity and desire to play the card has absolutely nothing to do with the caliber of player opting to run the card to maximize its potential to full use. Some players prefer to run it - that doesn't make it wrong at all.

I ran it when I was running hard with LED Dredge - and I'd do it again if given the opportunity.

I have to agree here. There is a big difference between beeing a bad player and running a suboptimal decklist. I played DR often myself in private tournaments with friends. It is such a nice flavour card.

Mfg Mindlash

[Parcher]

The second (and much better) deck I am struggeling against is OmniTell. Show and Tell into Omniscience into Enter the Infinite -> GG. Fun for the whole family. They are blazing fast, kill immediately and I have almost no way of stopping them. Therapies help but they often sideboard Leyline of Sanctity and take away this last option. I could board Nature's Claim to counteract this but that would slow me down, giving them more time to combo out. Is this just a bad matchup or is there a way to beat them I am missing?

No, it's not a bad matchup; they have no hate. But with Dredge having no disruption due to Leyline, and their having a light countermagic suite, they tend to end up being "faster". That is to say, our beats sometimes are not enough to kill them before they combo. The whole Quadlazer strategy of just Therapies and beatdown is by far the most consistant way to win with Dredge, if not always the fastest. But nullifying half of that equation allows Combo to basically play against a more fragile Zoo deck that doesn't even have the threat of burn.

I've run one total Dread Return with zero targets since about six months after Looting was printed. That said, with most of the SnT varients running a set of Leylines, and the general rise in Combo, I'm probably going back to running Iona-type guys in the SB again. Since they don't run hate, the only downside is the small increase in mulligans. And if they land Leyline, there is a huge upside.

[raikenxy]

Went 2-1 in a local the other day. Wanted to pick the thread's collective brains on a few idea's i've had about my deck and some boarding idea's and decisions i've been working on.

My list

dredgers (11)

3 thug
4 troll
4 stinkweed

Creatures (13)

4 narcomoeba
3 Ichorid
4 Putrid Imp
1 Flayer
1 Griselbrand

Sorcery (15)

3 Faithless Looting
4 Careful Study
3 Breakthrough
2 Dread Return
3 Cabal therapy

Enchantment/Artifact (8)

4 LED
4 Bridge from Below

Land (13)

4 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Colisseum
4 Gemstone
1 Tarnished Citadel

Sideboard

3 Leyline of the Void
4 natures claim
2 Firestorm
2 winds of change
1 elesh norn
1 iona
1 ancient grudge
1 cabal therapy



Round 1 Aggro Loam (On the play)

I keep a hand with a dredger, coliseum, 2 careful study, bridge and city of brass. I cast careful study and draw an led and golgari troll, i pitch both dredgers and pass the turn. He wastes my coliseum and passes. On my turn two i blow him out and kill him with flayer. Onto game two.

SB choices

-1 thug
-1 putrid Imp
-1 Ichorid
+1 Therapy
+2 Winds of change

He plays a land and passes the turn after mulligan to 6, apparently keeping a sketchy 6. I have a land with careful study, stinkweed imp, land, two moeba's, and winds of change. I play careful study pitching the imp and a thug i drew off the study, then pass. On his turn he plays a land a goyf then passes the turn. On my turn i dredge 5 find a troll and an ichorid, then play winds of change and dredge a shit load of cards. legit awesome sauce in a card lol. I go thirty cards deep and do some cabal therapy shenenigans to get a bunch of zombies and eventually flayer him again to take take it 2-0.

1-0

Round 2, Junk

I'm on the draw here, and being the first time i've played junk wasn't too sure what to expect. I keep a hand with study, breakthrough, land, and a troll and think i'll be alright. He plays turn one deathrite shaman and passes the turn - _ -... i shrug lol. On my turn i draw an led... awesome sauce once again. I dread return a griselbrand, then mill myself until a dome him for 9 off a flayer with double digit zombies. Onto game two.

SB

-1 thug,
-2 putrid imp


+1 therapy
+2 Winds of change (i think i should have gone firestorm here since i was on the draw, but was all hyped from game one i wanted to try it again)

On the draw i mull to 6 keeping a hand of 2 led, land, study, therapy and i thnk two bridges. He plays a fetch land and passes. I draw a study on my draw, then play cabal therapy and my two LED, naming surgical extraction. I get one in his hand, and he reveals engineered explosives, deathrite, 2 green sun's zenith and goyf. EOT he fetches for a bayou and plays deathrite shaman drops another land and plays EE for 0. On my turn i draw a cephalid coliseum, drop it then cast a careful study, i draw a narcomoeba and an thug, pitching a bridge a a moeba to the yard, then pass. On his turn he leaves deathrite up, plays karakas and taps out to play goyf hoping im on a slow dredge plan. He passes, then on my turn i draw a looting, i play looting, drawing a dread return and a troll. I pitch the thug and the dread return, hoping he bites on the thug and exiles it. He does'nt, i sac my hand to LED for 3 blue dumping the troll to the yard, which he quickly eats. I'm now hoping that my threshold with a thug gets there, luckily the first four cards i flip had a thug and a stinkweed imp. I proceed to combo out that turn and return a flayer doming him for 9 and creating 9 zombies. i almost dread reutnred griselbrand here until i noticed his karakas, then just accepted that my zombies were gonna die and hope he doesnt top deck a plowshares to exile flayer. On his turn he kills my zombies with EE then passes. On my turn i bring back three ichorids, triple lightning bolt him and swing for lethal.

2-0

Finals, Shardless BUG

Game One, I'm on the draw and keep an acceptable but sketchy hand... one dredge and a careful study. , he plays deathrite shaman and passes. This would remain to be the only relevant action this game as his deathrite shaman kept me off anything for the rest of the game after my intial careful study only revealed a thug and a bridge, after pitching two thugs, one got eaten the other dredged nothing. I managed to topdeck a cephalid coliseum mid game and combo into an acceptable board state two eat his hand, but his deathrite ate my ichorids and moeba's before they became relevant.

Game 2(on the play)

SB

+2 winds of change
+1 therapy

-1 thug
-1 imp
-1ichorid

On the play i keep a hand with a careful study, winds of change, and troll and a bunch of other stuff, he mulls to 6, doesnt like it but doesnt want to mull to 5. I play careful study, pitch two trolls then pass. He top decks a deathrite shaman, laughs ironically, then passes. I play winds of change and combo out that turn after creating upwards of 20 zombies and flayer/trolling him.

Game threeh

sb
-2 winds of change
+2 firestorm

this game was really grindy and barely remember many of the details. All i know was that i mulled to six and had a hand with therapy, thug, led, breakthrough, land, looting. He play's a land and passes for turn. On my turn i contemplate whether going for the win right there hoping my thug gets, or therapying him for anything that could stop me. I think for a while, and eventually decide to cast therapy for force of will. I hit nothing, on his turn he top decks a deathrite shaman, and passes. on my turn i combo out into nothing useful, and his one deathrite shaman gets there. im fairly certain tat had i gone for the win on turn one i would have gotten there being 15 plus cards ahead. but alas ididnt

against bug decks should we try being more explosive then them ? should i have gone for the turn one in the last game?

Notes

winds of change is a rockstar. I know it's old tech, but acting as breakthroughs four and five is just soooooooo cool. dredging five times is just rlly sweet off one card, the added bonus of making your opponent mulligan into uselessness is all pretty bodacious. i decided to test it in the sideboard against decks without force or which jsut have no interaction with me and i love it.

second, im planning to drop leyline of the voids for nether shadows, i've been toying with this idea for a while and im now pullling the plug that i jsut want the extra bodies in game three to dread return. i understand the quadlazer arguements against it... but it's such a sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet card lol

top decked deathrites suck

[Mindlash]

Went 2-1 in a local the other day. Wanted to pick the thread's collective brains on a few idea's i've had about my deck and some boarding idea's and decisions i've been working on.

My list

dredgers (11)

3 thug
4 troll
4 stinkweed

Creatures (13)

4 narcomoeba
3 Ichorid
4 Putrid Imp
1 Flayer
1 Griselbrand

Sorcery (15)

3 Faithless Looting
4 Careful Study
3 Breakthrough
2 Dread Return
3 Cabal therapy

Enchantment/Artifact (8)

4 LED
4 Bridge from Below

Land (13)

4 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Colisseum
4 Gemstone
1 Tarnished Citadel

Sideboard

3 Leyline of the Void
4 natures claim
2 Firestorm
2 winds of change
1 elesh norn
1 iona
1 ancient grudge
1 cabal therapy



Round 1 Aggro Loam (On the play)

I keep a hand with a dredger, coliseum, 2 careful study, bridge and city of brass. I cast careful study and draw an led and golgari troll, i pitch both dredgers and pass the turn. He wastes my coliseum and passes. On my turn two i blow him out and kill him with flayer. Onto game two.

SB choices

-1 thug
-1 putrid Imp
-1 Ichorid
+1 Therapy
+2 Winds of change

He plays a land and passes the turn after mulligan to 6, apparently keeping a sketchy 6. I have a land with careful study, stinkweed imp, land, two moeba's, and winds of change. I play careful study pitching the imp and a thug i drew off the study, then pass. On his turn he plays a land a goyf then passes the turn. On my turn i dredge 5 find a troll and an ichorid, then play winds of change and dredge a shit load of cards. legit awesome sauce in a card lol. I go thirty cards deep and do some cabal therapy shenenigans to get a bunch of zombies and eventually flayer him again to take take it 2-0.

1-0

Round 2, Junk

I'm on the draw here, and being the first time i've played junk wasn't too sure what to expect. I keep a hand with study, breakthrough, land, and a troll and think i'll be alright. He plays turn one deathrite shaman and passes the turn - _ -... i shrug lol. On my turn i draw an led... awesome sauce once again. I dread return a griselbrand, then mill myself until a dome him for 9 off a flayer with double digit zombies. Onto game two.

SB

-1 thug,
-2 putrid imp


+1 therapy
+2 Winds of change (i think i should have gone firestorm here since i was on the draw, but was all hyped from game one i wanted to try it again)

On the draw i mull to 6 keeping a hand of 2 led, land, study, therapy and i thnk two bridges. He plays a fetch land and passes. I draw a study on my draw, then play cabal therapy and my two LED, naming surgical extraction. I get one in his hand, and he reveals engineered explosives, deathrite, 2 green sun's zenith and goyf. EOT he fetches for a bayou and plays deathrite shaman drops another land and plays EE for 0. On my turn i draw a cephalid coliseum, drop it then cast a careful study, i draw a narcomoeba and an thug, pitching a bridge a a moeba to the yard, then pass. On his turn he leaves deathrite up, plays karakas and taps out to play goyf hoping im on a slow dredge plan. He passes, then on my turn i draw a looting, i play looting, drawing a dread return and a troll. I pitch the thug and the dread return, hoping he bites on the thug and exiles it. He does'nt, i sac my hand to LED for 3 blue dumping the troll to the yard, which he quickly eats. I'm now hoping that my threshold with a thug gets there, luckily the first four cards i flip had a thug and a stinkweed imp. I proceed to combo out that turn and return a flayer doming him for 9 and creating 9 zombies. i almost dread reutnred griselbrand here until i noticed his karakas, then just accepted that my zombies were gonna die and hope he doesnt top deck a plowshares to exile flayer. On his turn he kills my zombies with EE then passes. On my turn i bring back three ichorids, triple lightning bolt him and swing for lethal.

2-0

Finals, Shardless BUG

Game One, I'm on the draw and keep an acceptable but sketchy hand... one dredge and a careful study. , he plays deathrite shaman and passes. This would remain to be the only relevant action this game as his deathrite shaman kept me off anything for the rest of the game after my intial careful study only revealed a thug and a bridge, after pitching two thugs, one got eaten the other dredged nothing. I managed to topdeck a cephalid coliseum mid game and combo into an acceptable board state two eat his hand, but his deathrite ate my ichorids and moeba's before they became relevant.

Game 2(on the play)

SB

+2 winds of change
+1 therapy

-1 thug
-1 imp
-1ichorid

On the play i keep a hand with a careful study, winds of change, and troll and a bunch of other stuff, he mulls to 6, doesnt like it but doesnt want to mull to 5. I play careful study, pitch two trolls then pass. He top decks a deathrite shaman, laughs ironically, then passes. I play winds of change and combo out that turn after creating upwards of 20 zombies and flayer/trolling him.

Game threeh

sb
-2 winds of change
+2 firestorm

this game was really grindy and barely remember many of the details. All i know was that i mulled to six and had a hand with therapy, thug, led, breakthrough, land, looting. He play's a land and passes for turn. On my turn i contemplate whether going for the win right there hoping my thug gets, or therapying him for anything that could stop me. I think for a while, and eventually decide to cast therapy for force of will. I hit nothing, on his turn he top decks a deathrite shaman, and passes. on my turn i combo out into nothing useful, and his one deathrite shaman gets there. im fairly certain tat had i gone for the win on turn one i would have gotten there being 15 plus cards ahead. but alas ididnt

against bug decks should we try being more explosive then them ? should i have gone for the turn one in the last game?

Notes

winds of change is a rockstar. I know it's old tech, but acting as breakthroughs four and five is just soooooooo cool. dredging five times is just rlly sweet off one card, the added bonus of making your opponent mulligan into uselessness is all pretty bodacious. i decided to test it in the sideboard against decks without force or which jsut have no interaction with me and i love it.

second, im planning to drop leyline of the voids for nether shadows, i've been toying with this idea for a while and im now pullling the plug that i jsut want the extra bodies in game three to dread return. i understand the quadlazer arguements against it... but it's such a sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet card lol

top decked deathrites suck

You don't want to play less then 8 studies especially after boarding. They are discard outlet, enabler and dig for antihate for just 1 mana.

Other than that I do not understand why you use the weaker breakthrough before playing the maximum amount of breakthroughs. I can totally understand the use of Winds of Change as Breakthrough 5-6 though.

I would also not cut Cabal Therapies from the maindeck. They are one of the strongest if not the strongest card in dredge. But I guess one has to cut the good cards to play with Dread Return.

Greetings Mindlash

[Michael Keller]

It's been a while, but I'm ready to start dredging again.

[raikenxy]

You don't want to play less then 8 studies especially after boarding. They are discard outlet, enabler and dig for antihate for just 1 mana.

Other than that I do not understand why you use the weaker breakthrough before playing the maximum amount of breakthroughs. I can totally understand the use of Winds of Change as Breakthrough 5-6 though.

I would also not cut Cabal Therapies from the maindeck. They are one of the strongest if not the strongest card in dredge. But I guess one has to cut the good cards to play with Dread Return.

Greetings Mindlash

hey mindlash, geetings and thanks for the input!

the only justification i have for only running three breakthroughs and 3 therapies is that i honestly just find the fourth of either unnesseary in game one. Game 0ne for dredge usually doesn't lastlong enough for the extra therapy to matter. And since u usually dump your hand to breakthrough anyway i figured 3 was the perfect amount since u only ever use one game one anyway, and theyre usualy sideboard fodder games 2/3 if i want to decrease my explosiveness. The fourth therapy is in the board as anti-hate, and i always board it in every game two/three. i used to run two ichorids maindeck and the fourth therapy in the main and the third ichorid in the boad as i've always thought ichorid was jsut too slow game one and this was fine for me until DS got printed.


And about time hollyowood! great stuff!!! glad to hear it

[Mindlash]

hey mindlash, geetings and thanks for the input!

the only justification i have for only running three breakthroughs and 3 therapies is that i honestly just find the fourth of either unnesseary in game one. Game 0ne for dredge usually doesn't lastlong enough for the extra therapy to matter. And since u usually dump your hand to breakthrough anyway i figured 3 was the perfect amount since u only ever use one game one anyway, and theyre usualy sideboard fodder games 2/3 if i want to decrease my explosiveness. The fourth therapy is in the board as anti-hate, and i always board it in every game two/three. i used to run two ichorids maindeck and the fourth therapy in the main and the third ichorid in the boad as i've always thought ichorid was jsut too slow game one and this was fine for me until DS got printed.


And about time hollyowood! great stuff!!! glad to hear it

Yeah...ehm...the thing with Breakthrough is that I think I would play the 4 Breakthrough before I play the first Winds of Change. Winds of Change has a pretty bad synergy with LED. I would play 1 Breakthrough and 1 Winds of Change in the board instead of 0 Breakthrough and 2 Winds of Change.

Nether Shadow is a good thing while running a DR Dredge Deck. In Quadlaser you run the Ashen Ghouls because you need the extra power, while the Nether Shadows are better as bodies for DR.

Cabal Therapy is a card I only go below 4 with in the mirror. Otherwise its always maxed. But since I have no DR its my only way to sac people :) With two DR in your deck you might always have enough sac outlets so 3 therapies might work for you I guess.

Greetings Mindlash

[Anusien]

Finals, Shardless BUG

Game One, I'm on the draw and keep an acceptable but sketchy hand... one dredge and a careful study. , he plays deathrite shaman and passes. This would remain to be the only relevant action this game as his deathrite shaman kept me off anything for the rest of the game after my intial careful study only revealed a thug and a bridge, after pitching two thugs, one got eaten the other dredged nothing. I managed to topdeck a cephalid coliseum mid game and combo into an acceptable board state two eat his hand, but his deathrite ate my ichorids and moeba's before they became relevant.

Game 2(on the play)

SB

+2 winds of change
+1 therapy

-1 thug
-1 imp
-1ichorid

I like how your issue in this matchup was not having enough dredgers to chain into them, and yet you board out a Thug.

[Michael Keller]

If you guys have any updates you'd like added to the primer, let me know and I'll take care of it for you.

[ZebraSleeves]

I've been playing Quadlaser with a traditional Ashen Ghoul sideboard for awhile to some success and I enjoy its merits. However, this list was designed before Deathrite Shaman was printed, so I am wondering if an update to the sideboard (or even maindeck) is necessary in the current meta.

-Is surgical extraction enough of a problem that it warrants six sideboard slots (3 lands, 3 Ghouls)?

-Should I have access to pithing needle/firestorm for Deathrite?

-Are the Leyline of the Voids neccessary (I never feel like mulling a good hand to find one is justifiable. But then they reanimate an Elesh Norn turn 2 and I question my decision)?

-Should I just be playing a version with a combo kill or go manaless?

All my friends that play legacy live far away from me, so I never get much playtesting. I hope some of you on this forum can help me out. Thanks.

-Zebrasleeves

[Michael Keller]

I've been playing Quadlaser with a traditional Ashen Ghoul sideboard for awhile to some success and I enjoy its merits. However, this list was designed before Deathrite Shaman was printed, so I am wondering if an update to the sideboard (or even maindeck) is necessary in the current meta.

-Is surgical extraction enough of a problem that it warrants six sideboard slots (3 lands, 3 Ghouls)?

Surgical Extraction, while always a nuisance, isn't the be-all, end-all of sideboard hate towards LED/Quadlazer Dredge decks. You can beat it with tight play and a solid sideboard. Surgical Extraction in conjunction with Snapcaster Mage isn't as popular these days as it was a year ago, although it is still a thing.

-Should I have access to pithing needle/firestorm for Deathrite?

I am working on a new Dredge brew, and I am definitely going to be trying Needle out in my sideboard. I think it's a good choice right now against Deathrite Shaman and other targeted graveyard hate.

Are the Leyline of the Voids neccessary (I never feel like mulling a good hand to find one is justifiable. But then they reanimate an Elesh Norn turn 2 and I question my decision)?

Leyline is good, and it does help shore up some of the more difficult match-ups like Reanimator. Dredge already mulligans fairly hard, and I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think that mulling with the bonus of hitting a Leyline would be that bad of a deal. It's very unlikely a Reanimator player will bring in any anti-hate, with the exception of possibly an Echoing Truth or two.

Should I just be playing a version with a combo kill or go manaless?

Manaless is basically more of a combo deck than any other form of Dredge, so it's effectively one in the same.

All my friends that play legacy live far away from me, so I never get much playtesting. I hope some of you on this forum can help me out. Thanks.

-Zebrasleeves

If you ever need any advice, there are plenty of bright minds in here that can help you.

[Mindlash]

Is surgical extraction enough of a problem that it warrants six sideboard slots (3 lands, 3 Ghouls)?

As Hollywood said you can beat it with tight play though I find it easier with Ashen Ghoul. You play the 3 lands not only to support Ashen Ghouls as they are also here to support your antihate cards like Nature's Claim as well.

Although it is not the best hate card against Dredge nor is it the most annoying card to play against with Dredge it seems to be the most popular GY hate.

Before we went to Annecy this yeah I checked the sideboards from some greater tournaments to get a picture of what to prepare against:

GP Strasbourg Top 16:

3 x Canadian Threshold
2 x Death & Taxes
2 x Show and Tell
2 x Shardless BUG (4 Shaman)
1 x Merfolk
1 x Maverick (2 Ooze / 3 Shaman)
1 x BUG Delver (4 Shaman)
1 x Jund (4 Shaman)
1 x UW Mircales
1 x UWR Landstill
1 x 4 Color Shaman (4 Shaman)

SB:

14 Surgical Extraction
9 Relic of Progenitus
7 Grafdigger's Cage
6 Rest in Peace
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Tormod's Crypt

Some SCG Top 8s:

5 x Esper Stoneblade (1 mal mit 4 Shaman)
4 x Elves (4 Shaman)
3 x Jund (4 Shaman)
3 x ANT
2 x Merfolk
2 x Reanimator
2 x RUG Delver
2 x Sneak and Show
2 x Four-Color Loam
2 x BUG Delver (3 Shaman bzw. 4 Shaman)
1 x Hive Mind
1 x Maverick (2 Ooze / 3 Shaman)
1 x Bant
1 x U/W Miracles (1 RIP)
1 x RUG Cascade
1 x Deadguy Ale (4 Shaman)
1 x Omni-Tell
1 x Shardless BUG (4 Shaman)
1 x Goblins
1 x MUD
1 x TES
1 x Lands
1 x Nic Fit (1 Ooze / 1 Shaman)

SB:

32 Surgical Extraction
12 Relic of Progenitus
11 Grafdigger's Cage
9 Nihil Spellbomb
8 Leyline of the Void
5 Tormod's Crypt
4 Bojuka Bog
3 Scavanging Ooze
3 Extirpate
2 Rest in Peace

Should I have access to pithing needle/firestorm for Deathrite?

I am not a fan of cards with cmc2 in Dredge. It just seems very slow and most decks with Deathrite Shaman have access to Wasteland as well, while Dredge plays 15 lands after boarding at most. Firestorm may be a good card though. It is cmc1 and sweeps the board while also beeing and uncouterable discard outlet (discard is part of the cost). It is strongest against Merfolk because of this, but was helpful to get rid of Shamans and Ooozes from time to time. It is fun against Elves too ;)

Are the Leyline of the Voids neccessary (I never feel like mulling a good hand to find one is justifiable. But then they reanimate an Elesh Norn turn 2 and I question my decision)?

Hollywood already mentioned the "mulliganability" of Dredge but addiotionally you have to see it this way I think: If you play Dredge you only play your hand. You don't want to draw...you want to dredge most of the time. Therefore most of the cards are dead if they are not in your hand. If you want to use GY hate in Dredge: Use Leyline. You would also have to mulligan for Surgical Extractions...so why not mulligan for a card with real impact?

Other thing with Leyline in the current meta is: I don't think it is really needed. The decks you want to use it against are Dredge, Reanimator and Tin Fins and you see much of them in my meta currently. Leyline is the card I would switch to Firestorms if you want to use these (coming from the Quadlaser Board).

Should I just be playing a version with a combo kill or go manaless?

If you mean combo kill like "flashy Griselbrand/FKZ/Flayer finish in LED Dredge" I would say go LED Quadlaser or Manaless.

All my friends that play legacy live far away from me, so I never get much playtesting. I hope some of you on this forum can help me out. Thanks.

I use Cockatrice for this reason. Testing with friends who live far away after work.

Greetings Mindlash

[DarkJester]

I am not a fan of cards with cmc2 in Dredge. It just seems very slow and most decks with Deathrite Shaman have access to Wasteland as well, while Dredge plays 15 lands after boarding at most. Firestorm may be a good card though. It is cmc1 and sweeps the board while also beeing and uncouterable discard outlet (discard is part of the cost). It is strongest against Merfolk because of this, but was helpful to get rid of Shamans and Ooozes from time to time. It is fun against Elves too ;)




Greetings Mindlash

CMC 2 = PNeedle? Are you serious? I think you mean Revoker.

[tw0as]

First of all, good night everybody =)

Second, and more in-topic... The needle has a cmc of 1. Revoker is the one cmc 2.

And about the "new approaches" on Dredge, im trying this list that seems to have a bit of success and ways to deal with hate maindeck (other than the almighty Cabal Therapy)
Links to the lists i'm talking about:
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=11132&iddeck=81341
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=11134&iddeck=81357
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=11214&iddeck=81884

I'm currently testing the first one with a few variations on sideboard for a big Legacy event i have next month.

Greetings from Buenos Aires!
Keep dredgin'..

[Mindlash]

CMC 2 = PNeedle? Are you serious? I think you mean Revoker.

Yeah you are totally right. I got confused with Revoker. This happens while writing at work :D
Ok it is a usable card this way. I still don't know why to board against Shamans, bit at least it is castable without problems :)

Greetings Mindlash

[HammafistRoob]

When's the last time somebody tried Stifle as antihate?

[Michael Keller]

When's the last time somebody tried Stifle as antihate?

Given that few if any people will actually board artifact hate in against you, Pithing Needle seems to be much better at stopping those cards in their tracks. There's aren't many triggered abilities Dredge cares about dealing with, as opposed to the countless activated abilities of things like Crypt, Relic, Deathrite Shaman, etc.

And while semi-corner case, Stifle can also be countered with Spell Pierce (and to a lesser extent Flusterstorm), so I don't really think you're extracting a lot of value out of it here. Needle - if resolved - shuts down potentially a full compliment of any of an opponents' anti-hate - while staying on the board.

[Michael Keller]

Got a really cool new list for this coming weekend's big event. Definitely a deviation from the norm.