[Primer] Elves!

[uncletiggy]

Going to be taking elves to baltimore this weekend the list is pretty stock still need to find a second hoof would thar or regal be the better choice for this enviroment if i cant find one. Also I'm playing main deck 4 no and a 3/3 split of quirion and birclore I'd like to cut down one of these for a misers copy of joraga warcaller to save space in the board because I want an extra route to speed the aggro clock up a turn while not interfering with my one drops or would a singleton mirror entity in the board be a better route. Lastly any suggestions for a board would be helpful I can post my list and what my board looks like now when I get home

[Dice_Box]

Short post as I am on my mobile.

Try for the hoof. He is the best choice. Out of the other two choices I personally would favour the Regal Force is you need to fill the slot and run a more traditional style of play. Not perfect but it works.

[Lemnear]

I would even run Progenitus or Thar MD before wasting one more Second with Regal Force.

[Dice_Box]

I am intrigued. Why the resistance to Force? I mean I can see why he has been cut for a second Hoof, but why such resistance in this situation?

[Lemnear]

The best option for the Hydra, due to my Limited testing via Cockatrice is as an Alternative to the NO package as the primer win-condition to drop turn x, blast a creature and swing for 8+ damage turn x+1, (Swing for 8+ damage and cast New Hydra, sacrificing the old turn x+2; repeat).

It's ergo a lot like Vengevine in that slots, just more the Control-players-approach and slow as fuck if the opponent has random Blockers. That's a real dealbreaker against other aggro-types like Goblins, sweepers and (to a minor extend) combo. I doubt it will make an Impact aside from the Budget Route.





P.S.: I was the one who picked DRS from the RtR Spoiler and outlined the Applications (started the DRS thread and named them in the RtR thread) players enjoy and hate today while being flamed and called crazy saying that DRS is better than Noble Hierarch and the best card in the Expansion (buying 2 dozens of Foils for 6€ p.p. because peeps would not believe) :)


@Dice_Box: Because Regal Force presentes no threat itself and the value of drawing 2-4 cards (if not stifled) compared with the lethal threats which Progenitus, Hoof #2 or Thar are, showed being near-to-none. If the problem isn't strickly reduced to availability, you do the math for the damage equivalent of Hoof to Regals card drawing you'll notice the hilarity that anything beyond drawing 4 cards with Regal would have been a 100% kill with Hoof. If you have the Money to Grab 4 NO, take 2 cheaper hoofs too and don't save 2 bucks at the wrong end.


@uncleiggy: don't cut Birchlores or Quirions for cute stuff like Warcaller. The deck already has 14 must-counter turn 3. You don't need more threats and a 5-mana +2/+2 is a weak one too

[Dice_Box]

I guess it really is official, Glimpse and the cards that feed it really are things of the past. Might be time to grab more NO's for when we drive it's price up.

[Lemnear]

I guess it really is official, Glimpse and the cards that feed it really are things of the past. Might be time to grab more NO's for when we drive it's price up.

It's not that Glimpse and 1cc mana elves became worse, it's the stupid habit of WotC's Designers to create more and dumber I-win-creatures with every Expansion released. It's clear that every now and then a retarded green creature sees print like Regal Force, Craterhoof, Progenitus, the new Hydra, Scavenging Ooze, etc. and that they find their way into a deck with 20+ green doods, Gaea's Cradle, Natural Order and GSZ, so having playsets of those is a long-term-Autopilot

Tbh, Elves are the #1 deck in History to run Natural Order and my Elves.dec back in the stoneage (1997) even ran NO for Verdant Force and Overrun's (which is hilariously now the same effect through a single card by Craterhoof xP)

[uncletiggy]

Alright so here it goes obviously the mana base isn't optimized I'm aware and working on it but this is where I am and any help preparing would be appreciated mostly for boarding purposes

Creatures 29

4 heritage druid
4 nettle sentinel
4 wirewood symbiote
4 elvish visionary
4 deathrite shaman
3 quirion ranger
3 birchlore ranger
1 scavenging ooze
1 craterhoof (going to hunt down a second locally or at baltimore on saturday for the thar)
1 ruric thar

spells 13

4 green sun's zenith
4 natural order
4 glimpse of nature
1 crop rotation

lands 19

8 fetch's
1 bayou
2 savannah
3 forest
1 dryad arbor
1 gaea's cradle
2 cavern of souls (I obviously want cradle in this slot)
1 horizon canopy (really think I want a forest here I could play an overgrown tomb as well since I only own one bayou :(

board
4 cabal therapy
1 progenitus
1 scavenging ooze
1 gaddock teeg
1 qasali pridemage/viridian shaman/harmonic sliver (?)
2 abrupt decay
5 ?

so the real question is what to do with five slots?

2 thorn of amethyst
1 thalia gaurdian of thraben
2 Faerie macabre

1 crop rotation
1 karakas
1 bojuka bog
1 duress
1 ?

choke's/virtue's ruin/raking canopy/ensaring bridge/pithing needle/empyrial archangel/meekstone/wilt-leaf liege all have come to mind. and as crazy as it sounds I'd even considered a 6-7 card stoneforge package just to spice things up and catch people miss boarded and maybe steal a game or two, so any takers on helping me get my feet wet at my first big tournament with a sub optimal list...

[Lemnear]

-snip-

1) Run 18 lands only if you don't have to compensate 4 Cradles being dead as only land.
2) Cut Ooze from Mainboard an move to side
3) run 3 Ooze SB
4) 3 Decays
5) Harmonic Sliver
6) don't run 61 cards with a suboptimal list
7) consider a Second Arbor if you aren't going for a speed-list like I do (4 Cradles required)
8) increase the count of Rotations to at least 2 with only 1 Cradle

OR

9) consider a ... *puke* ... Priest of Titania in your 60 as a Virtual Cradle of GSZ

[Dice_Box]

3 Ooze? Have not seen that suggestion before. Why are you wanting to push the number so high? I mean he has the 4 Deathrite main.

[Lemnear]

3 Ooze? Have not seen that suggestion before. Why are you wanting to push the number so high? I mean he has the 4 Deathrite main.

This is a meta-call. Being Boss vs. RUG, other DRS-decks, Reanimator, SCM and ANT (DRS is not enought here) sometimes outclasses the slots we Reserve for Combo/against sweepers like Thorns.

For the moment, I'd step back from experimental slots like my ghostways for a big tournament. The 3 Oozes are sure crap if the local combo-metagame is defined by TES, OmniTell and opposing Elves.

Those are all just suggestions for uncleiggy to consider regarding his meta, 'cause he did not give a clue about Location/expected attendence etc. afaik. I have no chance to tailormade a SB for his budget-manabase/unknown meta. He's free to cherry-pick from the Input :)

[LeoCop 90]

I am starting to test this build :
4 heritage
4 nettle
4 visionary
4 symbiote
4 deathrite
4 birchlore
4 GSZ
4 Natural order
4 glimpse
3 quirion
2 cratherhoof
19 lands (4 cradle 1 arbor)

Want to see how it goes with the 4 birchlore and 0 llanowars, and the impact of the 4th natural order. Anyway i found i had to cut something and i opted for a quirion. Do you think is better with a build like this to play 3 quirion or 3 birchlore ? Or just 4 of each and 3 natural order ?

[Lemnear]

I am starting to test this build :
4 heritage
4 nettle
4 visionary
4 symbiote
4 deathrite
4 birchlore
4 GSZ
4 Natural order
4 glimpse
3 quirion
2 cratherhoof
19 lands (4 cradle 1 arbor)

Want to see how it goes with the 4 birchlore and 0 llanowars, and the impact of the 4th natural order. Anyway i found i had to cut something and i opted for a quirion. Do you think is better with a build like this to play 3 quirion or 3 birchlore ? Or just 4 of each and 3 natural order ?

That's at least exactly my list. I think 3 Quirions are enough if you have only 1 Arbor

[Dice_Box]

I do not think the Llanowar's are really a big cut. I mean if you do not draw them turn one or turn two they normally just end up being a one drop elf with no ability of their own. That alongside something like DRS who can save your ass against a few decks more or less on his own. I will say though that the cutting of Llanowar's has made turn two NO's a touch harder to achieve. A turn one Llanowar into a turn two Quirion was always a good way to go.

Edit:
13 lands or 14 lands, does anyone find a large difference between the two? Right now I am running the same list as above with the change being -1 land +1 Viridian Shaman and I have not found an issue with my lands.

[trevaftw]

If you wamt a way to kill flyers use Lys Alana Bowmaster or Thornweald Archer.

I think running 13 lands might br pushing the limits of the mana base in terms of fetches vs fetchables.

[uncletiggy]

In my original post I said it was for starcity baltimore so what would your board look like considering ill see less cradles and functionally be about one turn slower. And any suggestions for the mirror that fog on a stick spore frog? is the only thing that comes to mind

[Lemnear]

In my original post I said it was for starcity baltimore so what would your board look like considering ill see less cradles and functionally be about one turn slower. And any suggestions for the mirror that fog on a stick spore frog? is the only thing that comes to mind

If you plan to have an Edge in the mirror, consider Cursed Scroll to shoot down Elves, Lavamancer, SFM, SCM, DRS, Delver and all other crap.

BAAM! Secret Tech #2!

[uncletiggy]

I don't agree at all about cutting ooze from the main deck ill drop the canopy and go down to sixty what should I cut for a second crop rotation 14 spells feels really high but maybe in place of a land I just don't like the concept of mulling myself out of games

[trevaftw]

8 fetch's
1 bayou
2 savannah
3 forest
2 cavern of souls
1 horizon canopy

You have 17 turn one mana sources. You can cut it down to 15 and have an 88.2% chance of getting a land in your opening hand. I would

-1 Forest, +1 Fetch
-1 Savannah, +1 Taiga
-1 Horizon Canopy, +1 Crop Rotation
-1 Forest

Obviously this is dependent on what you have/can borrow. If you can't get anything else, I'd cut 1 Forest and 1 Cavern. Gives you two more spots mainboard for either more elves or some sideboard flex.

[LeoCop 90]

If you plan to have an Edge in the mirror, consider Cursed Scroll to shoot down Elves, Lavamancer, SFM, SCM, DRS, Delver and all other crap.

BAAM! Secret Tech #2!

Usually the card for this purpose was Mortarpod , although cursed scroll may be funny.

I will say though that the cutting of Llanowar's has made turn two NO's a touch harder to achieve. A turn one Llanowar into a turn two Quirion was always a good way to go.

I noticed this too, but i still have to figure out if the advantages of having 4 birchlore outclass this disadvantage. At the moment the swap from llanowars to birchlores doesn't seem to do a lot of difference to me.