All B/R update speculation.

[GreekAsTheGods]

The trend is to un-ban cards. So I am expecting no ban or restriction whilst some cards may get unbanned.

Such as:
Black Vise
Frantic Search


The only card which has a remote possibility to be banned is Griselbrand on the basis of its similarity with Yawgmoth's Bargain.
However the format is so diverse now that I see no need to ban any candidate card.

There was a card recently released that's dangerously close to Windfall, I forget the name of it though. And I don't think there's any way Jace isn't going to at very least be looked at for possible ban. There's vintage players who laugh at the fact the card made it through development =/ I don't think it's unreasonable to say it's probably one of the more likely banhammer targets. IMO the card is one of the biggest oversights and design fails in pretty much all of TCG history... although not quite on the level of Tolarian Academy.....

That said, Jace is boring.... he's making the format a tad boring and CounterTop still has ways to win without him now with Miracle angel armies. UG Delver Decks can win without him too.

[Dark Ritual]

There was a card recently released that's dangerously close to Windfall, I forget the name of it though. And I don't think there's any way Jace isn't going to at very least be looked at for possible ban. There's vintage players who laugh at the fact the card made it through development =/ I don't think it's unreasonable to say it's probably one of the more likely banhammer targets. IMO the card is one of the biggest oversights and design fails in pretty much all of TCG history... although not quite on the level of Tolarian Academy.....

That said, Jace is boring.... he's making the format a tad boring and CounterTop still has ways to win without him now with Miracle angel armies. UG Delver Decks can win without him too.

UG delver? Please tell me how UG delver impacts B&R list restrictions.

Jace getting banned makes pure control decks obsolete in legacy. What would they do, switch jace for fact or fiction? Don't make me laugh. Control dies without JTMS in legacy, and that isn't a good thing at all.

If you don't want to adapt to new cards like DRS, you're a moron that shouldn't play legacy. Adapt or go the way of the dinosaurs/extinct. DRS is a fair magic card. Oh no, he enables decks to have more colors than 3. So does birds of paradise, and I don't see birds getting banned in legacy ever. DRS is beatable if you want to beat it. Just the new goblin lackey, in 5 years DRS will be just another card.

[GreekAsTheGods]

UG delver? Please tell me how UG delver impacts B&R list restrictions.

Jace getting banned makes pure control decks obsolete in legacy. What would they do, switch jace for fact or fiction? Don't make me laugh. Control dies without JTMS in legacy, and that isn't a good thing at all.

If you don't want to adapt to new cards like DRS, you're a moron that shouldn't play legacy. Adapt or go the way of the dinosaurs/extinct. DRS is a fair magic card. Oh no, he enables decks to have more colors than 3. So does birds of paradise, and I don't see birds getting banned in legacy ever. DRS is beatable if you want to beat it. Just the new goblin lackey, in 5 years DRS will be just another card.

The fact that there was pure control decks before there was Jace invalidates your entire post.

EDIT: And I'm sure you're right. If power creep continues as it has been then in 5 years every 1 drop will be a 3/3 with 5 abilities and DRS will be considered "unplayable".

[Lemnear]

The fact that there was pure control decks before there was Jace invalidates your entire post.

I could swear Countertop and all forms of UW Control were pushed out of Legacy by Aether Vial before Jace, SFM and the Miracle-Mechanic recovered the pure control archtype

[GreekAsTheGods]

I could swear Countertop and all forms of UW Control were pushed out of Legacy by Aether Vial before Jace, SFM and the Miracle-Mechanic recovered the pure control archtype

I knew people who ran permission even after Aether Vial's release and did pretty well for themselves.

[HPB_Eggo]

I knew people who ran permission even after Aether Vial's release and did pretty well for themselves.

Running some permission is not the same as running a control deck.

See, for instance, RUG Delver.

[Megadeus]

If you don't want to adapt to new cards like DRS, you're a moron that shouldn't play legacy. Adapt or go the way of the dinosaurs/extinct. DRS is a fair magic card. Oh no, he enables decks to have more colors than 3. So does birds of paradise, and I don't see birds getting banned in legacy ever. DRS is beatable if you want to beat it. Just the new goblin lackey, in 5 years DRS will be just another card.

I Agree with your point about DRS and Birds. While I agree that DRS is a very powerful card, mana fixing wise he is just a worse BoP. Of course the reason he is so good is not because of only the mana ability but still. The fact that a late game top decked DRS is still a decent draw is what makes him separate from BoP and others.

[GreekAsTheGods]

Running some permission is not the same as running a control deck.

See, for instance, RUG Delver.

I suppose.

Jace still makes the format extremely boring. And even R&D have stated pretty negative feelings about the card.

[lordofthepit]

My example Magus of the Bazaar is a creature that I feel is balanced at least in theory. Regardless of what you think of the utility it offers it's a rare utility creature who does what it's meant to and isn't strong in areas that it doesn't need to be. When compared to DRS you have 3 amazing abilities, a split mana cost which makes the card even more flexible and easy to play AND it's a 1/2 body. It seems too good in too many areas.... like I said.... if I was asked to guess the CMC without prior knowledge and was told that it was a top tier rare used in tournament play I'd still guess 2CMC or higher.

Utility creatures can have amazing utility... that's fine. I consider Magus of the Bazaar's utility to be amazing. Why does every utility creature need to have amazing utility, seemingly too low mana costs and a body that's good beyond necessity. I'd feel like DRS was still borderline OP even if it was a 0/1 and nothing else about it was different. It seems normal... cause it's been out so long that it's just generally accepted as where the curve is now.... but it and other creatures like it are really catalysts of drastic power creep. I guess R&D did say they wanted creatures to be better at one point tho.... they have succeeded....

If Magus of the Bazaar is an example of a balanced or amazing utility creature for you, then Legacy may not be the format with the appropriate power level for you. That card has never been even remotely close to playable.

[GreekAsTheGods]

If Magus of the Bazaar is an example of a balanced or amazing utility creature for you, then Legacy may not be the format with the appropriate power level for you. That card has never been even remotely close to playable.

xD My first 4 LED that I ever acquire (which I still own today) costed me the price of one booster pack and a handful of commons.
I picked up a Bazaar of Baghdad back in the day for like $0.75 at a card shop cause it was considered trash at the time.

Magus is good. MTG Community just slow.

The point I was making seems to have been lost on you though. My point is an amazing utility creature shouldn't be above the curve in every aspect of the card. Magus has (IMO) good utility. Regardless of what you think of the utility the body that utility at least makes sense for a creature intended to be utility based. 2CMC 0/1. DRS is a 1/2 1CMC split-mana with 3 amazing abilities. The card doesn't need all of that as a utility creature. That's just WotC cramming as many numbers into a card as they possibly can to make their sets sell better, and they're warping the crap out of the curve as a result.

[apple713]

I suppose.

Jace still makes the format extremely boring. And even R&D have stated pretty negative feelings about the card.

jace isnt really an issue in this format. He's slow and I see him often get used as the blue card to FOW. Also his fateseal ability is great but with all the fetchlands floating around hes not a guarantee and keeping your opponent off something.

I dont think hes played enough to really have that large of an impact on the format. consider cards like DRS, tarrmogoyf, Thoughtseize, Abrupt decay, and swords to plowshares. They all get played like 10x more than jace.

[GreekAsTheGods]

jace isnt really an issue in this format. He's slow and I see him often get used as the blue card to FOW. Also his fateseal ability is great but with all the fetchlands floating around hes not a guarantee and keeping your opponent off something.

I dont think hes played enough to really have that large of an impact on the format. consider cards like DRS, tarrmogoyf, Thoughtseize, Abrupt decay, and swords to plowshares. They all get played like 10x more than jace.

I remember there being a Top 8 with 32 Jaces recently. Pretty sure it was Legacy. I could be wrong I suppose.

[lordofthepit]

I remember there being a Top 8 with 32 Jaces recently. Pretty sure it was Legacy. I could be wrong I suppose.

You're going to need to supply a link for that. There's not even a deck in Legacy that usually plays 4 Jaces, and Jace decks make up about a third of the format, so there's no way every single deck decided to play 4 Jaces.

[GreekAsTheGods]

You're going to need to supply a link for that. There's not even a deck in Legacy that usually plays 4 Jaces, and Jace decks make up about a third of the format, so there's no way every single deck decided to play 4 Jaces.

Already looking for it.

EDIT : Nvm, that was a Standard event. I was misinformed. I still see Jace an awful lot in Legacy tho. I see CounterTop way too regularly for my liking.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Already looking for it.

EDIT : Nvm, that was a Standard event. I was misinformed. I still see Jace an awful lot in Legacy tho. I see CounterTop way too regularly for my liking.

Play Abrupt Decay if you hate Counterbalance.

[apple713]

Already looking for it.

EDIT : Nvm, that was a Standard event. I was misinformed. I still see Jace an awful lot in Legacy tho. I see CounterTop way too regularly for my liking.

consider this. For every Jace you see you'll see 2x swords to plowshares. For every miracles deck they also play swords. The there are 2 popular decks that play swords, maverick / D&T. Then theres this UWR delver thats playing it. Stoneblade plays swords and so on. They should make more planeswalkers like liliana and jace cause the rest are trash for legacy. It would be nice to see some diversity. Maybe we'll get that with Theros cause theres gonna be a few planeswalkers in there right?

[HPB_Eggo]

I suppose.

Jace still makes the format extremely boring. And even R&D have stated pretty negative feelings about the card.

Jace is one of the cornerstones of the few true control decks left in Legacy. Removing him would drastically damage an important archetype that many enjoy playing.

You can argue that playing against control is 'boring,' but I personally like playing through permission, removal, and other answers. It's very interesting, just like playing as or against combo is - assuming there's some amount of interaction, at least. While the games are a little slower, that's not really a problem as control doesn't necessarily want to prevent you from doing anything, they just want to prevent you from winning.

Extreme case of a 'boring' deck to play against is fast, reliable prison - something that should never exist in any healthy format, at least IMO. Current control is a long ways from that, though, so I'm not really seeing the issue.

[Mewens]

There's also a lot of techy little answers to Jace; I really like the card existing in the format, and I feel like it adds more than it forces out. As far as I'm concerned, he only feels overpowered in the context of his time in Standard; having him exist next to Squadron Hawk and the various Swords of Derp and Derp wasn't exactly genius planning. (1W: Brainstorm might seem lackluster in Legacy, but it's a damn sight better than anything else you can do in Standard.)

[(nameless one)]

People seem to forget that Super Jace also existed with Fetchlands in Standard.

Sure Super Jace and Fetchlands exist side by side in legacy, but you know what else exists in Legacy: Jund.

Remember when Jund and Super Jace existed side by side with each other? Super Jace couldn't do jack.

[Tylert]

If you don't want to adapt to new cards like DRS, you're a moron that shouldn't play legacy. Adapt or go the way of the dinosaurs/extinct. DRS is a fair magic card. Oh no, he enables decks to have more colors than 3. So does birds of paradise, and I don't see birds getting banned in legacy ever. DRS is beatable if you want to beat it. Just the new goblin lackey, in 5 years DRS will be just another card.

It's not exactly like a bird of paradise...
Bird of paradise is not an anti graveyard teck, it does not gain life and it is not a clock... it dies to a lot of removal that DRS avoids also. It's a dead draw late game... The only upside of birds is that it is flying and can allways make mana... but DRS, in a world of fetch + wastelands does nearly the same...
Goblin lackey is only played in goblins. DRS is played... everywhere :)

ALso, I play Phyrexian revokers and rest in piece to combat him...

Anyway, i did not say, that we had to ban him, but just have a look at the results of deck with DRS.