@Qweerios
Why the huntmaster and not thrun?
I've been considering Rise // Fall. Has it been discussed? Sorry in that case, I fail at using the advanced search for "Rise // Fall"!Originally Posted by Qweerios
It may not be good enough, but it has some relevant uses so I want to mention it for general consideration:
- extra discard vs combo decks (desperately needed, IMO)
- slowing down aggressive decks while also returning a lost/used Explorer/Ooze/Deathrite/Stoneforge/Witness
- late game returning a good offensive creature from the grave while also clearing way for your offence
- the bounce has synergies with Therapy, Liliana & Jace
- bouncing Wall of Blossoms/Baleful Strix/Stoneforge/Witness/Thragtusk also seems good
- bouncing Tombstalker or a reanimated creature
There are a lot of things to consider in order to make this card useful. E.g. playing Phyrexian Tower helps you get creatures into your own graveyard early. Deathrite Shaman helps you play the card, while also ending up early in the graveyard.
I wonder if one Taiga and 6-7 fetches together with 2 Deathrites would be enough to play Fall regularly vs combo decks. The colors are an obvious issue either way.
I was thinking at one time we had a renanimate as a burning wish target, that seems better?
I was mostly considering the card for maindeck use, and that's why I wanted to bring it up. But since it fit Qweerios's description I took the opportunity to reply. Two mana is a bit much for use together with a Burning Wish, considering it doesn't have a huge impact on the game, but on the other hand it's not strictly irrelevant - perhaps it even can be a useful Wish target due to it's flexibility(?).
When it comes to the effect of the card it is quite far from Reanimate, I'd say. It is first of all a quasi Hymn to Tourach. But it is also a card that can e.g. bounce a Tarmogoyf and return a killed/countered Veteran Explorer to your hand on turn two. The option of adding maindeck combo hosers is very attractive to me.
@Star Scream,
I have yet to text extensively against SnT.
@Blastoderm,
Huntmaster could easily be Thrun. Thrun gives you inevitability while Huntmaster gives you another value body for Therapy at 4 mana and further improves the burn matchup. I haven't needed Thrun in a long time, hexproof has been only necessary against StP/Snap/BSkull decks.
@Tao,
I wouldn't necessarily compare this list to Scapeshift more so than regular GBx variants. Unlike ScapeWish, this list has a stable manabase. I speak from personal experience when I state that Nic Fit has never needed a 4cmc sorcery to win a game, and how a strong manabase has always been a strong component of this deck's success. You can't expect to lose manipulation (shuffle effects), weaken your manabase, play a large amount of value creatures, and hope to be anything remotely close to a successful control or combo deck.
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
You're absolutely right about the unreliable manabase and needing shuffle effects for SDT in ScapeWish. However, one of the problems of this archetype (and why I took up ScapeWish) is durdling and not being able to finish matches in time. How does this version stack up?
Long time browser, newly registered and just bought into the deck. Looking to play Punishing Fit tonight at my weekly Legacy event tonight. Judging by the local purchases in my community, I can expect a couple Shardless BUG and some Delvers flying around. This is what I planned on running tonight, but I am very open to suggestion:
Maindeck (60):
Creatures (15):
4x Veteran Explorer
2x Eternal Witness
2x Huntmaster of the Fels
2x Thragtusk
1x Deathrite Shaman
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Varolz, the Scar-Stripped
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Primeval Titan
Instants/Sorceries (15):
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Punishing Fire
3x Abrupt Decay
Artifacts/Planeswalkers/Enchantments (7):
3x Pernicious Deed
3x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Garruk, Primal Hunter
Lands (23):
4x Grove of the Burnwillows
3x Verdant Catacombs
3x Bayou
2x Wooded Foothills
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Taiga
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Kessig Wolf-Run
3x Snow-Covered Forest
2x Snow-Covered Mountain
2x Snow Covered Swamp
Sideboard (15):
4x Duress
2x Slaughter Games
2x Extirpate
2x Obstinate Baloth
3x Red Elemental Blast
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Primeval Bounty
The Sideboard needs a lot of tuning, but as somewhat with little experience with this particular deck I rather be safe than sorry when facing a Storm or Omni-Tell match-up.
@Star Scream,
I fail to see how Nic Fit wins too slowly or "durdles" too much. I never had any problems closing games in time with a single Primeval Titan or Jacing my opponent while Deed looping. After all, it is a control deck so control of the board needs to be established, and that takes several turns. Compared to Miracle (Tier1 deck), Nic Fit is lightning fast and ridiculously linear... Nic Fit is not a complicated deck to play once you are familiar with the cards so you shouldn't take too long to complete your turns. Control mirrors will probably go to time, but then again, all control decks tend to when they are faced with attrition.
This particular GBr variant of Nic Fit wins the same way any other conventional list does: it ramps into fatties. Burning Wish is there to help the deck's consistency with sacrifice outlets, board sweepers, and other utility sorcery spells. It virtually expands mainboard space at the cost of sideboard space, making the deck overall more consistent and versatile.
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
The Maindeck looks pretty good. For the Sideboard I would play Thoughtseize over Duress and a 4th Red Blast. How did the tournament go?
I ended up running a list using Qweerio's Burning Wish shell that he recently posted.
Creatures (13):
4x Veteran Explorer
2x Eternal Witness
1x Deathrite Shaman
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Huntmaster of the Fels
1x Thragtusk
1x Primeval Titan
Instants/Sorceries (18):
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Burning Wish
4x Abrupt Decay
2x Thoughtseize
Artifacts/Planeswalkers/Enchantments (6):
3x Pernicious Deed
2x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Garruk, Primal Hunter
Lands (23):
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Wooded Foothills
1x Bloodstained Mire
2x Bayou
2x Taiga
1x Savannah
1x Badlands
2x Treetop Village
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Volrath's Stronghold
3x Forest
2x Swamp
1x Mountain
Sideboard (15):
2x Red Elemental Blast
2x Pyroblast
2x Extirpate
1x Massacre
1x Innocent Blood
1x Slaughter Games
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Thoughtseize
1x Tsunami
1x Pyroclasm
1x Reanimate
1x Reverant Silence
Ended up winning the 8-man we had. I feel as though I won the match-up lottery though.
R1: 2-0 vs. Dredge (Lost the die roll)
R2: 2-1 vs. RUG Delver (Won the die roll)
R3: 2-0 vs. Death and Taxes (Won the die roll)
Really enjoyed the utility the wishes brought. I wanted to designate a slot in my wishboard to something that wasn't necessarily reactive. I went with Reanimate, and it worked out quite well, but the idea of something similar to Banefire or Rakdos' Return was mentioned several times as a possibility in the future. Also, would Raging Ravine be a possible substitute for 1x Treetop Village?
Anyways, I feel as though this is the list I want to work on currently. Tips, comments, concerns?
I have the same concern as Tao regarding this list. It seems to run so few threats. However it seems interesting. Might try it out once I have more time to test.
The only useful tip I can give you is regarding the Gaddock, I love having access to him in my 75, but I don't think he belongs in the main. I would also like to try and fit the 3rd top. And a sorcery win condition out of the SB (can't think of anything besides worm Harvest though).
@SevenInTheQueue,
Glad to hear you enjoyed the shell. I am also looking for more proactive, game-breaking sorcery spells. So far, I have Clan Defiance, Rakdos's Return, Plunge into Darkness, and Harmonize in mind. However, I am not sold on any of them yet. Tendrils of Despair doesn't look half bad either.
I have tried Raging Ravine and the activation cost is too hefty. Treetop is better, and trample is relevant.
On the topic of threats, how many is too few, and how many is too much? I recall tearing through 7 swiss rounds using only 1 Thrun, 1 Titan, 1 Thragtusk, and 1 Ooze back when I played Gifts Ungiven.
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
@Rednose
The Teeg was more of a meta call, but ended up being unnecessary. I'm not attached to his slot in my 60, and will probably end up putting him in the sideboard.
@Qweerios
Got really excited when I saw Plunge Into Darkness, but then realized it was an instant. Get really spicy and play Beacon of Unrest/Creation
As far as threats go, I didn't feel as though they were lacking. That said, my sample size isn't nearly large enough to give a solid opinion on the matter. With Teeg heading to the board, I wouldn't mind replacing him with a 3cc threat. Here are the options I've found:
Varolz, the Scar-Stripped - I've seen him pop up in multiple lists, and he seems quite strong. That said, does he really add anything to the deck that we don't already have access to?
Daybreak Ranger - Maybe Kibler brainwashed me, but could this be strong enough? Deals with Delver, Strix, V-Clique, Mindcensor, etc. Again, are these things we can't already deal with?
Kitchen Finks - Nothing exciting
Fierce Empath - Currently only finds Primeval Titan. Could add another 6cc to increase threat count. Not that exciting by itself though
Vithian Renegades - There might be enough match-ups where this is relevant G1 to include.
I heard there was a deck featuring birthing pod and dead eye navigator. Which one of you guys is playing in the open?
I meant Promise of Power, not Plunge.
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
Possibly Zirath/Timur Babakol i guess, he was undefeated the last time i checked.
Even better. PoP is big game.
LOL. When I say PoP is big game in legacy I don't think Promise of Power is the card that I think of. It does seem pretty sweet though. A Skeletal Scrying that you dont have to rape your own yard.
Looks like Kevin was 5-3 going into the last round with a chance to top 64.
Top 64...45th to be exact. Report tomorrow. Deck shit the bed early then finally pulled its head out of its ass in r6. Then went on a tear and beat my next three pretty easily, including reanimator in the last round. Had good matchups all day u til reanimator....good meta for us. Couldnt track down the bug deadeye list....wasn't timur. More tomorrow....at hard rock now then road for 3 hours lol
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