Nice result with your interesting list. Glad the shadow of doubt worked out for you.
I saw some interesting g/b lists on the thread. Please share thoughts on the following list:
4 loam
4 pox
4 small pox
4 Hymn
2 library
4 lilly
1 wurm harvest
1 win con (maybe another walker)
3 mox diamond
4 chalice
4 decay
2 pulse
4 waste
4 bayou
4 factory
6 b fetchs
5 swamps
Posted from cell at work. Sorry for grammar. I basically tweaked a chalice list from
a few pages back.
Is anyone in this thread seriously interested to build a "competetive" Pox list, or are only kitchentable players left here?? (Don't take it personal please).
Nice results??? He said that in the last 3 tournaments he played 2-2, 0-4 and 3-1 (basically a 2-1 with the buy) so overall 4-7. This is a nice result?Originally Posted by beez
And you're glad that the Shadow of Doubt worked out for him?? He wrote that he played it once the whole tournament and then it got countered, for me it's more like the playset did nothing.
I would love to build on a Pox list that is playable on bigger tournaments, thought that people are still around here that had the same motivation. I don't thinck that the mono coloured versions are strong enough at the moment, and all the tournament results this last year proofs that.
@lambert101: I thinck chalice is extremely strong atm, the problem is that you need one of your 3 mox diamonds to be able to cast something first turn wich is an absolute drawback in a fast meta. Maybe play cards like Dismember to maximize your first turn drops.
StefN, you seem to be new to the thread; Counting tournament results only you missed that my deck is constantly evolving.
I have tried to build a pox deck that is not a copy of Sam Black's(?) deck since 2011. It went through discard and later zombie builds. There were many dead ends and I have a folder with cool black cards that simply were not good enough.
So, yeah, we try to build competitive decks he.
I guess I'm absolutely wrong in this thread. You are all so convinced about your mono lists, that you ignore, that MonoPox is not able to win big tournaments atm. That's a sad fact, and a reason why we should try to refine Pox.
And please guys don't be mad on me. I really love Pox. The flavor and style of the deck is awesome, but it's just not competetive atm.
Correction: it was Reid Duke, not Sam Black.
Hello guys !
Wanted to try this list :
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Bojuka Bog
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Dakmor Salvage
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
7 Swamp
2 Nether Spirit
2 Nihilith
3 Bloodghast
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Shrieking Affliction
4 Dark Ritual
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Innocent Blood
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Smallpox
I know MonoB seems to struggle, but I find the B/G one even worse since there is so much DRS in the meta. B/w doesn't seem to offer that much.
I focused heavily on discard to kill with Shrieking Affliction. Shrieking over The Rack because it deals more at one card in hand.
Any advice for the main ? Don't know yet about the board, I want to try a good main first.
I've been thinking seriously about the BG version, although Punishing Pox is an interesting twist. The manabase looks so inconsistent though with only 1 Urborg. I don't know how you consistently cast BB spells while not sacrificing Groves?I guess I'm absolutely wrong in this thread. You are all so convinced about your mono lists, that you ignore, that MonoPox is not able to win big tournaments atm. That's a sad fact, and a reason why we should try to refine Pox.
And please guys don't be mad on me
//29 Mana Sources:
3 Mox Diamond
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Bayou
2 Barren Moor
4 Swamp
//Pox Spells: 26
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Innocent Blood
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Extirpate
1 Darkblast
//Win Conditions: 6
1 Nether Spirit
1 Haunted Platemail
2 Life from the Loam
2 Cursed Scroll
//Sideboard:
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Engineered Plague
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Duress
2 Pithing Needle
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Krosan Grip
Card choices:
A lot of these are pretty standard for BG. I feel Mox Diamond, Loam and lack of big Pox means you should have plenty of mana so mana-hungry cards like Cursed Scroll and Platemail seem viable. I originally had 3 Sinkhole MD but, finding Sinkhole increasingly weak, replaced them for Darkblast and Extirpate for added utility. The Dredging of Darkblast/Loam synergize (help find each other and Barren Moors) and Darkblast just has great utility in general.
Innocent Blood deals with T1 DRS, but so does Extirpate on their fetch/Waste/dual. Because of Split Second, you can either counter their mana production or just exile a land before they can use it. You can also counter either of the other 2 activations or just strip a key card without them getting priority to get some value out of it in response. This is why Extirpate over Surgical. It has the added benefit of stripping their deck of mana sources and potentially mana screwing them later, as well as the usual bonus of hand information and stopping graveyard shenanigans in G1. A lot of people argue Extirpate is just card disadvantage in this deck that can only generate virtual card advantage, but I think this is mitigated by its ability to frustrate DRS and the CA generated by both Loam and Scroll.
Sideboard's a bit finnicky right now. Leyline and Plague should be obvious. Leyline because this is a slow deck and you need to wipe out their GY for good; outraces Griselbees; dodges Decay; can still cast future copies.
Chains is just amazing against Blue, especially control decks with Brainstorms and Jaces and Tops. The argument could be made for -1 Chains +1 Pulse. The real advantage of Chains may just be beating players who have no idea what it does. I think Chains and unbounceable creatures beats Jace a lot better than splashing for Punishing Fire, personally. Chains also completely nullifies Reanimate/Show and Tell/Sneak Attack/Goryo's Vengeance/etc into Griselbrand, Sylvan Library, and random cantrips like Gitaxian Probe. Just don't board it in against Dredge...
Pithing Needle/Duress/Pulse/Grip can come in against a whole whack of decks, anything from combo to control hate. I like having that flexibility so you can board stuff in/out accordingly depending on specific lists. I thought about Chalice because of Mox Diamond, but I think Pox actually beats combo better with 6+ T1 discard effects than it does by trying to combo out T1 Chalice and then being able to run 0 targeted discard. Thoughts?
Overall I like your list. Looks pretty solid. Like the one Off Darkblast and the Loam/Mox/CycleLand Package. Not sure about the landcount. Maybe you could cut 1-2.
About the two Extirpate. I understand why you play it, but I thinck this Card is not flexible enough to Play it Main. Why Play a Card that negates the shaman effect if you can play something to get rid of this Card. Maybe a Pulse or the 4 Decay Main...
....or you play a 1off Vraska :D.
Still looking into this archetype...more specifically my g/b list above. Wanted thoughts on main with this board:
2 maelstrom pulse
3 ensnaring bridge
3 surgical extraction
3 perish
2 golgari charm
2 zuran orb
my main deck discard and chalice help against combo and tempo (if it can stick)
@DreAmiN
Consider removing the dark rituals. You have lots of 1cc drops to play on turn one already. Same for turn two.
Better to have a stable mana base.
You could use card draw effects. Phyrexian arena?
I felt that turn one Liliana is one of the most threatening thing in Legacy. Same for something like Tourach+Blood OTD. I remembered old Legacy monoB with T1 Hypnotic Specter, that was a huge threat, Liliana is just better so why not ? Is Dark Ritual that bad after the playtest ? It's like "hey, look i've already no card in hand and you don't have that much either !".
About Phyrexian arena, I feel 3 mana is a lot. Maybe while keeping Dark Ritual, otherwise I'm afraid Phyrexian Arena comes a little bit late.
About SB any advice ? I'm pretty sure i've to bring Perish (so much Goyf, Gooze, DRS and so) and Plague (Death'n'Taxes, Gob, Merfolk, Elves -even if the latter is hurt by perish).
If you are running Chalice main then I wouldn't have 1cc Surgical in the side (Extirpate is a little better for us anyway) but rather Leyline of the Void, as I assume you will mostly have Chalice @1.
I didn't even realize about surgical. Thats what I get for making post during my coffee break.
I think we all like to win. I know I do, and my build certainly wins most of the time. About 60-40 I'd say in competitive matches, but clearly there is room for improvement as it is hard to go 10-0 with a grindy somewhat inconsistent deck,and no obvious solution which is why the board is active with people trying different things to bring the deck up. I think it is interestingto see what people come up with.
Loam builds have a lot of merit and are quite good. In a vaccum or goldfishing environment they run better. In practice they have some flaws too. For example I was playing my UR Delver list a couple of weeks ago and ran into playing against playing a Loam Pox build. It was the first time I had faced another Pox list other than my own. It felt odd, but was instructional in some ways. The first game Wastelock was too much for me, second game, PoP and Surgical against Loam did work. The final game I was being controlled pretty well and was about to go down to some Loamed up Factories as I couldnt seem to draw into a Surgical (So much Surgical kept me from running more than one Bloodghast in my own Pox build when I ran them because I was sick of being Extracted of win cons, another reason I think Chalice may have some merit in Loam builds especially) at any rate I had managed to get some basics out past the Wastelock, top drew a Snapcaster, flashed back a Price of Progress against 5 Loamed up non-basics and scored 10 for a lucky knockout blow. I did come away admiring the greater speed of the Loam build when the engine was going, but still a bit wary of its graveyard dependence. Still, the graveyard is the best way to break Pox symmetry, but with so much GY hate and other decks happy with having some graveyard too, ie Punishing Fire, it can be tough to pick your poison.
Extirpate is best against the widest variety of decks, but Leyline they are not as used to seeing and it just ends things completely for Aggro-Loam decks (they at minimum have to burn a Wish for anti-enchantment and it dodges their Chalice) and makes life pretty rough for Punishing Jund as well I have noticed, not to mention the horror it gived Dredge and Reanimator.
I agree with the loam builds being the way to go. I am trying to make a mainstream list utilizing loam, chalice, and mox diamond. The hardest thing is finding a wincon. I am truly considering Varaksa as a 2 of for a walker build.
4 loam
4 hymn
4 pox
4 small pox
4 lily
2 varaska
4 mox
4 Decay
2 m pulse
2 library
4 chalice
1 tabernacle
4 wasteland
4 bayou
4 verdant
5 swamps
4 factory
Worm Harvest and/or Syphon Life are good Loam Pox wincons.
@DreAmiN
The odds is not in your favour. To begin a game with both rituals and liliana in hand happen only a fifth of the games.
Then you have lost a card to play lil, and what next? If you use the ability to discard you will be down to three cards in hand allready and your opponent six.
The odds of having both rituals, liliana, and something like nether spirit to discard, at start is down to ca 5%.
All this assumes that you win the dice roll. Going second is worse of course.
These disadvantages of ritual was pointed out to me by others. As a consequence my build moved a way from costly stuff, as much as was possible, along with an adjustment to my play.
Do you think 1 of each (wurm harvest + Syphon Life) would be better than 2 Varaskas? Also considering 2 nether shadows in that wincon space.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote