I honestly hate Candelabra in this deck. More than half the time I have it it's either irrelevant or a straight dead card. I think it requires to much around it to be good. The way I see it, if we have 4+ lands out, we should be doing fine. There are times where it's a Sol Ring early game, but I prefer Expedition Map 10 times out of 10. Could be variance since I've always had just one in my build, but I just never seem to draw it at the right time. I feel the same with Venser and I gave him the axe a while ago. This is the current maindeck I've been trying since Tims discovery.
//LANDS¤27
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
4 Tropical Island
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Glacial Chasm
//CREATURES¤ 13
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Trinket Mage
4 Primeval Titan
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
//SPELLS¤20
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Crop Rotation
4 Show and Tell
3 Expedition Map
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
Trinket Mage is pretty boss and he's been making me happy to have the Candel around. I would also definitely have a needle in the board and probably an Engineered Explosives. I feel like I may need to go down to 26 lands but I'm not sure yet. I also don't think playing U. Sea is worth it here, if you sat there for ten turns pinging them and couldn't another wincon idk what to say haha.
Will add more later.... sleep time
Team Hammafist-We don't take kindly to those who don't take kindly.Originally Posted by Jander78
"Got any trade boogas?"
With DRS main maybe you could try to squeeze the bog in main.
It ll give B to DRS and it s good to have a good answer to grave deck or pif main
Here's the current "best" list.
// Lands
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [MM] Forest (2)
1 [ZEN] Island (7)
// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
4 [RTR] Deathrite Shaman
2 [ZEN] Oracle of Mul Daya
2 [M13] Thragtusk
// Spells
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [IA] Brainstorm
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
3 [US] Show and Tell
3 [GP] Repeal
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [M13] Thragtusk
SB: 4 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 3 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 4 [ME] Force of Will
SB: 3 [FUT] Venser, Shaper Savant
I went 4-1 at my weekly event with this list, with my only loss being to my teammate who only builds decks specifically to beat me. Dragon Stompy with 8 Moons, Chalice, a Stone Rain. Then him having absurd draws with me having sub par ones, and I still took a game.
No candelabra hurt my soul, but until DRS gets banned it is the right choice for multiple reasons I won't go into now.
The real test here is repeal vs Venser on the main. I loathe having a dreadful Omni matchup G1, and Venser is still great in so many matchups, Thragtusk makes the deck's cmc climb even further and repeal can no longer abuse candelabra, Repeal is essentially worthless against Shardless, all of these things pointing towards the demise of Repeal, and the movement of Venser to the MD.
Oracle and Thragtusk are extremely difficult for shardless to deal with and supply enough time to not care about higher cmc costs and are self sufficient enough to win off of being Hymned bare.
Nic Fit approves this message.Thragtusk
+1
How's the RUG and tribal matchups with the new list? RUG seems a bit more rough without the needles and a higher mana curve, and tribal such as goblins also seems a bit more challenging without sideboard tabernacle and elephant grass. Thragtusk is naturally good against both and deathrite is good at stopping threshold but it's a lightning rod for, well, lightning bolt. Haven't tested the new list as I put the deck aside a couple of months ago. I'm liking the new list but my meta has a ton of goblins all of a sudden, and a lot of tempo decks. Oracle seems a bit slow in these matchups.
I think you might be confused about what deathrite and thragtusk's roles are in that matchup. They aren't finishers. You barely run Black to use deathrite's spell ability. Deathrite is SUPPOSED to be a lightning rod. He is a healing salve for 1 green that could completely neuter them and accelerate you. The eloquence of DRS is that he makes them want to keep in swords/abrupt decay/bolts. I was playing it in the SB so he wouldn't be vulnerable to that hate that they sided out, but truth be told (or playtested), he was just better main so that their sideboarding choices are horrible.
Oracle's purpose is to be a good blind draw post-hymn obliteration.
If you have goblins/tempo around, just run elephant grass.
Doing some last-minute testing to see if Sylvan Primordial can asway my hate of omni but not be completely dead main.
How long so you think this will last? No candelabras gives me a lot of incentive to try this out since I pretty much have everything else.
You realize that the section you quoted has the timeframe right?
I like the list, especially the sideboard looks killer. But I feel like you want more fetches to fuel Shaman. Why Bog maindeck? I really think Shamans black ping ability isn't needed in this deck. And I dread CiPT lands more often than not.
I wanna highlight some more strengths I've noticed about DrS.
* Since removing cards with his abilities is part of the resolution of said ability, not the cost, you can actually use your Shaman to negate an opposing Shaman. Which again slows the game down, only benefiting us.
* As Rock said, it makes people seriously struggle with how to board properly. If they have two bolts/ swords in their hand and we don't even draw a Shaman, they're basically blanks in their hand. Even if they do nuke your Shaman, that's one less turn they are putting pressure on our most important resource, the life total.
* Hard casting PrimeTime on turn 4 is VERY good. This requires at least two locus in play, one being Cloudpost, and Shaman.(or Candel shenanigans) You could also easily cast Thragtusk on turn3, I haven't tried him here yet though.
* Hard casting Kozelik or Ulamog on Turn 4 is unfair. This, however, requires a Crop Rotation and at least 3 Cloudposts.(or Candel shenanigans)
The point I'm trying to make is that since adding Shaman to the mix, opening hands with an Eldrazi actually become marginally stronger as well. I could probably come up with 100 reasons to run Shaman, definitely run 4 all day every day.
Team Hammafist-We don't take kindly to those who don't take kindly."Got any trade boogas?"
The plan with DRS is even more insidious. DRS lets you go Trop-> DRS, Crop -> Vesuva, Turn 3 Titan/Thragtusk. So with zero Cloudposts, you're at 6 mana on turn 3. The power of this bad buy, is you can crop rotate all your colored sources away and be fine.
About running low fetch count, I don't want to fuel opposing DRS's even when I have on of my own, and often DRS is simply there for block/fog'ing, lifegain, and rarely the Turn 2 Show & tell accelerator.
Bog is there for situational-combo game 1, and randomly as your only black source for DRS.
Really really like the list. Man I am soooo on the fence with repeal!
I'm also liking glen-elendra's potential in that type of build, you can really muck up the board while still having a relevant MD counterspell, w/o the double blue req. The only reason I was turned off from her before was when omni pulled the hate so far away from the RUG. Now the hate is spread well IMO, maybe she can join the party. I did like the thrag tech, especially when Taylor had to read what the hell it did.
[lol at shaving a cool g$ off the list cutting three cards]
Sometimes I like having other minds to bounce ideas off of, so I know when I'm really off the deep end. But I've been testing Ghostly Flicker and actually loving it.
// Lands
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [MM] Forest (2)
1 [ZEN] Island (7)
// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
4 [RTR] Deathrite Shaman
2 [ZEN] Oracle of Mul Daya
2 [M13] Thragtusk
2 [GTC] Sylvan Primordial
// Spells
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [US] Show and Tell
2 [AVR] Ghostly Flicker
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [M13] Thragtusk
SB: 4 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 3 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 4 [ME] Force of Will
SB: 3 [FUT] Venser, Shaper Savant
Not sure if I've gone off the deep end, or if I'm onto something ingenious.
The uses of flicker are crazy: titans/thragtusk/primordials, vesuva/glimmerposts/bogging/chasm sustain, anti wasteland, top drawing, Venser countering. The only major downside is you don't have strong removal, But I've always gone with a "you don't need removal" plan. Which means the sideboard Thragtusk perhaps should be removalx2/3. We'll see.
I had a game where I gained 40 life off of one titan by getting 2 glimmerposts, responding to the trigger by flickering the titan and the gotten-glimmerpost for 5x8 glimmerpost triggers.
Last edited by Rock Lee; 08-23-2013 at 01:31 AM.
Ghostly Flicker is pretty funny. Picking up on that Pauper Post tech, when are the Mulldrifters and Temporal Fissures going to show up?
I personally love Repeal due to the fact that you can bounce opposing Insectile Aberrations for the low, low cost of U, plus it replaces itself.
That's the biggest advantage of Repeal based on my experience. Against low-curve decks that run cheap (0 to 2cmc) threats, there's so much value in a bounce spell that replaces itself.
Archaeomancer and Mnemonic Wall, calling it!
The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
1. Discuss the unbanning ofLand TaxEarthcraft.
2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
4. Stifle Standstill.
5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).
hi sorry, but i realy dont understand, how u make 6 mana without a cloudpost at turn 3.
u have a tropical turn one into ds.
turn 2 crop rotation on tropical? into? and u get vesuva. with no cloudpost u have 2 lands = 2 mana + 1 with ds, or?
turn 3 third landdrop. 3 lands = 3 mana (when no cloudpost) + shaman = 4 mana.
i dont see the trick u make. plz explain, i think i play sth wrong
regards
Mjuz
PS: sry for my bad english
You crop rotate for a cloud post, play a vesuva for turn, then a land on turn 3
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