[Primer] Elves!

[Lemnear]

Oh I completely forgot about MA in all those years and playing more Visionary's to cycle through your deck Sounds amazing ... if we had the space for that. Dunno how you guys manage to pack in all those Oozes, V.Shamans, Thar's and Co. without chopping better cards

[Dice_Box]

Space is already at a premium, where would we fit in Acolyte and what to we do if it is in our opening hand?

Playing Devils advocate here but with 4 Visionaries in the deck already and 4 repeatable Fetches in GSZ (due to the shuffle effect) do we really need in this deck a card whom is of most effect only when paired with another card in the deck? Acolyte is a bad card to open with, on the back of 1 or 2 Dryad, 2 Hoof and the chance of Manaless opening hands, do we want to play with more cards that are not giving us the best opening we can get?

Just some thoughts. Because as much as I like the look of Acolyte, I am not convinced it is a card we should be running.

[jedi_gof]

Agree, the time has passed in the decks current configuration. Flex slots such as ooze or thar if they are not your cut of tea cuold be cut, but i would not recommend it. I'd rather play another manadork before MA as of now.

[amppyou]

In regards to fighting miracles, your quote:

Again, pretty sure this is solved tech. Miracles can never ever ever beat Gaddock Teeg in play. You can either play multiple Teegs, or you can play a one-of Sylvan Safekeeper. I'm pretty sure I've seen both out of Elves before.

I know it's already been pointed out to you, but Miracles can certainly beat Teeg. Swords to Plowshares & Karakas handle him just fine and this assumes you've resolved him in the first place. Some lists feature detention sphere as well. Playing multiple Teegs does not trump karakas, and proposing we just run Sylvan safekeeper assumes that you'll resolve two separate spells.

And that is a difficult thing to just throw at you in a digestible, text-based form. Some of that comes from experience and some comes from intuition, but knowing that difference will prompt you to rethink the way you play your cards, rather than the cards with which you play. Changing your approach to a matchup is, IMO, more valuable than changing your 75 into some janky doo doo.

Experience certainly trumps minor SB decisions. I don't think anyone would disagree with you on that point. You can't fault anyone for wanting to tinker with the 75 and propose new ideas though, especially in a deck with access to GSZ/NO. For my part, i definitely wish there were more tournaments in my area or at least people to test with, but that's not the case. I piloted elves to a decent record solely on the back of this thread and an article by Riley Curran a while back.

Question - do you guys bring in discard vs. miracles? With the abrupt decays, teeg, & harmonic already coming in, not to mention possibly +1 NO, +1 dryad abor, I am unsure if I'm approaching boarded games correctly vs. them. Therapy would def get you closer to ensuring safe NO, but it seems like this sb configuration would have to take away from the main engine of the deck, changing the role of the deck. Any insight on how to strike a balance would be appreciated.

[nudon]

You can't fault anyone for wanting to tinker with the 75 and propose new ideas though, especially in a deck with access to GSZ/NO.

...

Question - do you guys bring in discard vs. miracles? With the abrupt decays, teeg, & harmonic already coming in, not to mention possibly +1 NO, +1 dryad abor, I am unsure if I'm approaching boarded games correctly vs. them. Therapy would def get you closer to ensuring safe NO, but it seems like this sb configuration would have to take away from the main engine of the deck, changing the role of the deck. Any insight on how to strike a balance would be appreciated.

There's nothing wrong with proposing ideas. However, the cards mentioned in the last few pages have been very sub-optimal. Not sure how others feel but it's actually been a big turn-off for me the last few times I visited this thread. I agree with others that cleaning up some sloppy play will swing the percentages in your favor more than worrying about some sb tech.

I have tried discard vs. miracles but it didn't quite work out the way I wanted it to. For me, I'd just stick to 3x decays, teeg, harmonic, and progenitus (already have 4 NO md) while boarding out 2 heritage druid, 2 quirion ranger, 1 birchlore, and 1 craterhoof.

For reference, here's my md:
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Heritage Druid
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Birchlore Rangers
2 Craterhoof Behemoth

4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Natural Order

2 Forest
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Gaea's Cradle

I moved viridian shaman to the sb because I've been able to beat chalice on 1 with the help of fetch->dryad arbor, gsz (x > 0), visionaries, and NO. Chalice decks simply can't stop NO. Also, the 4x birchlores and 4x NO are simply insane. Yesterday, I glimpsed (to bait FoW) and NO->progenitus on turn 2 with the help of birchlore.

[trevaftw]

I went 2-1 last night. Couldn't stay for the last round since I had work.

Round 1 - Lands (win)
Game one I won the die roll and played fetch, forest, gsz = 0 for dryad arbor then said go. He wasted my dryad arbor, played mox diamond, then fast bond and played a bunch of lands but nothing else. I went played an elf and passed. He drew nothing and the next turn I went off and won. Game two he started and by turn three he had two grove of the burnwillows and two punishing fires. Game three he slowed me down with a cursed totem but I was able to draw three lands and play krosan grip and win the following the turn before he could do anything else.

Round 2 - ANT Storm (win)
Game one he went off the turn before I swung for lethal.
The next game I kept a slow hand but I had mindbreak trap, crop rotation, and two cabal therapy with a fetch. He probed me after I used my two Cabal therapy and saw mindbreak trap but didn't realise i could crop rotate for bojuka bog. he played 2 LED's and passed. the next turn with a loaded GY and hand) he played infernal tutor and cracked both his LED. after the two LED's abilitie resolved and he pitched his hand I crop rotated and got rid of his GY. he then got ANT and he killed himself. The next game I turn 2ed Ruric thar and won pretty quick.

Round 3 - ANT Storm (loss)
Game 1 I won because he killed himself off of ANT. Game 2 and Game 3 he had the perfect hands and was faster than me.

I finally picked up a 3rd copy of Natural Order with anticipation of playing Elves in a larger competitive tournament. It looks like Elvish Archdruid may finally get the cut once and for all!

I play Archdruid and 4 NO ;)

[Lemnear]

I went 2-1 last night. Couldn't stay for the last round since I had work.

Round 1 - Lands (win)
Game one I won the die roll and played fetch, forest, gsz = 0 for dryad arbor then said go. He wasted my dryad arbor, played mox diamond, then fast bond and played a bunch of lands but nothing else. I went played an elf and passed. He drew nothing and the next turn I went off and won. Game two he started and by turn three he had two grove of the burnwillows and two punishing fires. Game three he slowed me down with a cursed totem but I was able to draw three lands and play krosan grip and win the following the turn before he could do anything else.

Someone should take a peek at the ban-list ;)

Also, the 4x birchlores and 4x NO are simply insane. Yesterday, I glimpsed (to bait FoW) and NO->progenitus on turn 2 with the help of birchlore.

My pleasure ;D

[nudon]

Someone should take a peek at the ban-list ;)




My, pleasure ;D

Thanks haha! One of the things I noticed in testing was that gsz->arbor became a much more common play for me. While this is usually undesired, it occasionally helped glimpse (or NO) on turn 2 because quirion ranger plays nicely with it (as opposed to DRS). Moreover, gsz doesn't trigger glimpse anyway so this is one line of play to keep in mind. For those curious, here's what happened:

T1: fetch->forest->gsz->arbor
T2: arbor->glimpse (FoW), forest->quirion ranger, bounce forest->untap arbor, arbor->birchlore, tap quirion+birchlore for 1, cradle for 3, NO->prog

[Dice_Box]

The Grand Prix is turning up in 6 weeks with two Legacy events. Now living in Australia and not one of the two big cities the world seems to care about means this is likely the biggest thing to happen all year. First for both events is a piece of Power and I want to get at least one of them. My plan is to run Goblins one day since it is still the deck I never miss a trick with and Elves in the second event. I will be up against decks I do not normally see at my local store so I ask all of you to please write any reports for matches you may have. I will be combing through them looking for any tricks or tips that I do not know against decks that I otherwise have not played before. Also a friend of mine and I are going to Proxy some of the decks and test. I hope that helps us both.

Thanks all.

P.S. The week I will be trading my deck for my Mate's Merfolk and playing that. Looking at things from the other side of the table. This will be the first time I have ever had a FoW in my 75 and I am not sure I like that feeling.

[uncletiggy]

So I'm sitting on three open slot s going into sunday at baltimore with my board currently at

3 abrupt decay
4 cabal therapy
1 duress
1 progenitus
1 scavenging ooze
1 qasali pride mage
1 gaddock teeg

I have three slots should they be
2 thorn
1 thalia

1 crop rotation
1 bojuka bog
1 karakas

2 rip
1 rakking canopy

Any thoughts would help

[uncletiggy]

So I'm sitting on three open slot s going into sunday at baltimore with my board currently at

3 abrupt decay
4 cabal therapy
1 duress
1 progenitus
1 scavenging ooze
1 qasali pride mage
1 gaddock teeg

I have three slots should they be
2 thorn
1 thalia

1 crop rotation
1 bojuka bog
1 karakas

2 rip
1 rakking canopy

Any thoughts would help

[Lemnear]

So I'm sitting on three open slot s going into sunday at baltimore with my board currently at

3 abrupt decay
4 cabal therapy
1 duress
1 progenitus
1 scavenging ooze
1 qasali pride mage
1 gaddock teeg

I have three slots should they be
2 thorn
1 thalia

1 crop rotation
1 bojuka bog
1 karakas

2 rip
1 rakking canopy

Any thoughts would help

RIP negates your own DRS' and a land-toolbox is too unrelyable. Go with 2 Thorns + 2 Ooze an replace Pride Mage with Harmonic Sliver

[andrebonotto]

I went 2-1 last night. Couldn't stay for the last round since I had work.

Round 1 - Lands (win)
(...)He wasted my dryad arbor, played mox diamond, then fast bond and played a bunch of lands (...).

You probably meant Manabond here, right?

[trevaftw]

You probably meant Manabond here, right?

Correct. His deck was all foriegn so I didn't remember the name but recognized the picture and ability

[Kayradis]

Alright. Another week is opening to us.
Still grinding points for GP Washington DC.

Im still debating between the 19 or the 18 lands configuration.

Lemnear?
Dice_Box?

[Tempus]

This is my list at the moment

3 Forest
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
3 Gaea's Cradle
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wooded Foothills

3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Birchlore Rangers
2 Quirion Ranger
2 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Regal Force
1 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Scavenging Ooze

4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Natural Order


It is not as streamlined for the combo, but is able to grind out games on the back of Ezuri and Ooze.
I chose the Sliver over the Viridian Shaman to handle the occasional CB (there is usually 1-2 decks with CB around) and Sneak Attack/Omniscience (also 1-2 around). This might have to become Shaman though, as more and more Blade lists start to show up.
Just 3 Deathrite Shaman because they are not that good at accelerating and I'd rather have them turn 3 in longer games than turn 1 in general. At the moment I'm not too happy about the Quirion Rangers and I think about going -2 Rangers +1 Fyndhorn/DRS +1 Birchlore.

Any thoughts?

[Zombie]

3 Deathrite is wrong, 4 is pretty much a must. 2 Forests is right, I think. 1 is greedy, 3 definitely too much. Get a 4th Cradle. The Regal Force is thoroughly unnecessary, 2nd Hoof, Progenitus and Ruric are all way better in that slot. With a two-Fyndhorn setup Quirion Ranger becomes better than Birchlore - I'd run 2 Fyndhorn, 3 Quirion, 2 Birchlore.

[Kayradis]

Just 3 Deathrite Shaman because they are not that good at accelerating and I'd rather have them turn 3 in longer games than turn 1 in general.

Don't simply see DRS as an accelerant. I've used them multiple times in conjonction with Quirion/Symbiote to grind myself out of games I couldn't win.

[Tempus]

3 Deathrite is wrong, 4 is pretty much a must. 2 Forests is right, I think. 1 is greedy, 3 definitely too much. Get a 4th Cradle. The Regal Force is thoroughly unnecessary, 2nd Hoof, Progenitus and Ruric are all way better in that slot. With a two-Fyndhorn setup Quirion Ranger becomes better than Birchlore - I'd run 2 Fyndhorn, 3 Quirion, 2 Birchlore.

Why is 4 DRS a must? Also I'm choosing not to play the 4th Cradle cause already 3 lead to awkward hands. I'd rather play a 3rd Bayou to support the DRS better.
I like the Birchlores better because of the awesome interaction of Glimpse and Nettle Sentinel. Even with Quirion and Fyndhorn in my opening, I never really liked the Quirion to further my gameplan.

Don't simply see DRS as an accelerant. I've used them multiple times in conjonction with Quirion/Symbiote to grind myself out of games I couldn't win.

Me too. But usually I only have access to 1-2 black mana with an untap effect so a second DRS would be useless. Therefore I cut one DRS and started playing two Fyndhorn Elves as they are better in my opening hand.

[Lemnear]

@Tempus

The list is full of cute techs but lacks the focus. Chopping your outs for turn 2/3 Natural Order isn't a good idea nor is it to Build the deck for long and grindy games because I don't think the decks essence is suited to successfully battle against Legacy midrange/control.

@Kayradis

I still rather prefer having a land than a Llanowar in like any opener or topdeck. It's ok to have 2-3 lands in your opener imo.