Finally got my hands on the cards to the Punishing Dark Maverick build. Maybe I'm going to give it a spin in the Legacy DE later this day:
2 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Plains
1 Plateau
2 Savannah
1 Taiga
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
3 Birds of Paradise
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Mother of Runes
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Punishing Fire
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
Sideboard:
2 Duress
1 Engineered Plague
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Thoughtseize
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
It's pretty much the same list as Sunyveil is currently testing, except I replaced the MD Canopy and LftL with a Cradle and a SoFaF since you can tutor for both.
My reasoning behind is that LtfL never came up in the match-ups I've watched on his stream and he frequently boarded it out. While I can see the impact when you draw it (especially with Wasteland or Canopy), it just seems kind of too random to rely on it. I love my SoFaF and considering the MODO meta is chock-full with RUG, BUG and DRS, plus Dark Maverick gaining popularity, it might be a good call, especially with the synergy SoFaF has with the PF engine. Dryad Arbor and Maze of Ith are some of my favorite tricks with it as well.
Since Sunyveil started to run a second Ooze like many other Maverick players and me having a third equipment, I've decided to replace the Canopy with Cradle. Is it greedy in a 4-colored mana base? Definitely. Is it worth it? Maybe. Only testing can tell if the serious mana bursts for Ooze and equipment are worth it.
I've also replace the Zuran Orb with a Bog - it's just way too good as a KotR target and I'd miss something without it.
Edit:
The problem I see with SoLS are active DRS which can deny you the recursion. Tapping Mom for evasion is a double-edged sword (no pun intended) since it opens you up for removal, but if they have AD, your critter is going to have a hard time anyway because they could kill SoFaF, too.Originally Posted by Koby
@ Barook & Koby:
Thanks for the feedback IRT to SoFaF.
And if I'm going to use it, what do you think would be the proper configuration of card slots, between SoFaF, other Equipment, and Stoneforge Mystics?
- André
It really depends on the rest of the build and the meta.
If you run SFM, I would go with 1 Jitte, 1 Batterskull, (1 SoFaF if your meta requires it) and 2-3 SFM - probably 2 because you want to run GSZ already. But that's just my opinion.
However, if you use equipment as a pillar of the deck, I would definitely include a Gaea's Cradle to power out your stuff. With GW, I don't see a problem to run a single copy.
Is Polukranos , World Eater what maverick needed to better it's match ups vs faster creature deck? ( goblins , affinity, elves, Merfolks, Death and Taxes, ect). With a Cradle in play you can wipe their board easily. Can also bounce back with Karakas for a repeatable one sided wrath.
Any thoughts?
PF does a better job than that without sucking. I'm already looking for a way to pack a 4th in the Sb because it is THAT good. PF wins fair games. Polukranos is just too expensive for what it does.
Also, apart from Elves (where Polukranos is way too slow anyway) those MUs range from easy to even, so not sure if it's an issue that needs to be adressed. PF sounds right if your meta is infested with those decks, I run 1 Ulvenwald Tracker in the SB in he is also pretty good in those MUs if you want to stay straight GW(b).
Thanks guys.
I am gonna stick to my GW mav.
Deck: maverick (60)
// Lands
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Plains
3 Savannah
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
// Creatures
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
// Spells
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sylvan Library
2 Umezawa's Jitte
Thanks again!
I'll follow your hint whenever I'm able to acquire the remaining pieces of the deck. (Luckily, I already have the Cradle, from playing with Elves)
To add something about Polukranos since I'm not on my mobile phone anymore:
The only match-ups where I could view it as relevant is against other Midrange decks (and even then, only those without StP/Karakas). Killing 1-2 dudes and swinging with a 6/6 or 7/7 is pretty relevant here.
Fast aggro won't care since you might be dead well before you could activate the ability. Recycling Polukranos with Karakas sounds pretty insane - that's a 10+ mana investment that doesn't win the game. This isn't Standard where stuff like this is viable.
I advocate that more people should try out Punishing Fire. It significantly improves fair match-ups and the slightly worse manabase to combat combo in the sideboard is worth the trade imho.
Little report about Maverick doing some work. Havent wrote anything here in a long time and now after couple good finishes and trying out little variations, it was the time i shared my list and thoughts. As said havent wrote here in a long time, youll find my signature probably like 100-150 pages ago so im no new to Maverick, only legacy deck ive played past couple years (in tournaments). First of course the good'ol GW build and after testing ( losing to everything ) with it again for fun i decided i just need to use some of the cards that are better ( BoB / Thoughtseize / Abrupt Decay ) than some in the old list ( too many Oozes / Qasalis / etc. ) and updated it couple months ago. Since then the deck has been performing really well and before the tournaments and scouting the metagame ive made only slight changes. I went to local stores legacy wednesday couple weeks ago and 4-0'd and then last weekend i played at 40 people tournament at Tampere, Finland and heres a quick recap what happened.
First of all this is the list ive perfected after a lot of playtesting and experience with different variations and interactions of Maverick. ( live with my mates and "some" time spent on MWS )
Lands:
1 x Plains
1 x Forest
1 x Gaea's Cradle
1 x Dryad Arbor
1 x Maze of Ith
1 x Scrubland
2 x Bayou
3 x Verdant Catacombs
4 x Windswept Heath
4 x Savannah
4 x Wasteland
Creatures:
1 x Scryb Ranger
1 x Qasali Pridemage
1 x Scavenging Ooze
1 x Gaddock Teeg
1 x Stoneforge Mystic
4 x Mother of Runes
4 x Dark Confidant
4 x Deathrite Shaman
4 x Knight of the Reliquary
Instant & Sorcery:
4 x Green Sun's Zenith
4 x Swords to Plowshares
3 x Abrupt Decay
2 x Thoughtseize
Enchantment & Artifact:
1 x Sylvan Library
2 x Umezawa's Jitte
SB:
3 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 x Duress
1 x Abrupt Decay
1 x Karakas
1 x Bojuka Bog
2 x Relic of Progenitus
1 x Oblivion Ring
1 x Pithing Needle
1 x Ethersworn Canonist
1 x Enlightened Tutor
1 x Sigarda, Host of Herons
So this is the list without metagame adjustments. After snooping around and asking people about the meta i decided to switch 3 x Thalia in and take 2 x Thoughtseize and 1 x Gaddock teeg out. Also i took my 2nd Enlightened Tutor out of the SB and replaced it with 2nd Duress.
So its 11 o'clock at the sunday morning and im chatting with my friend about the fact that i bet out of all the ppl im gonna get randomized versus him cause that has happened in every standard tournament in past 2 - 3 months and i really didnt want to face him cause he played Omnitell. So the inevitable happens and i really got paired against him. I cant do anything else than just laugh.
Game 1, Omnitell
g1 i miss GW maverick cause when he casts show and tell and the table looked something like : Deathrite, Ooze, BoB, and fresh KotR from s'n't and opposing side has Emrakul and 0 cards in hand. But as you can see by looking my decklist, that the list is so tight i have to keep Karakas on the SB and i scoop in misery. g2 i dont remember much, he mulled down to 5 i think and i get hatebears to handle the things. g3 my opening hand looks really good but the problem is that he will start. First turn Mom followed by thalia slows him down and then i get to GSZ for gaddock teeg. Hes at 3 life and show and tell's Omnisciense to the table, thinks abit and tells me hes one mana short cause of thalia and shakes my hand. Phew, im smiling and cant stop it. Worst matchup won as a first game promises good. Result: 2-1
Game 2, Esper Deathblade
Matchup that i was waiting and when i saw first lands hit the ground i knew that im not supposed to lose this, abrupt decay is the nuts in this one and after miserable draws on game 2 i win pretty easily the game 3 too. I didnt know my opponent well, only thing was that i heard hes a good player, as a sidepoint he came to me in some point and asked me if i wanna buy the deck cause hes bored playing it :D Not much else to tell about this game. Result 2-1
Game 3 Reanimator
I just hate the deck, i mean i would never ever touch reanimator so of course im forced to play against it, thank you gods of magic.. g1 he gets turn 3 Iona but after thinking like 5 minutes he says "black" cause he has played against me when i played my friends "Rock" so he fears Liliana. I topdeck Ooze 1 turn too late and he hits with Iona. Next turn i topdeck Maze of Ith and then starts the sitting. After a while he casts Show and Tell and slams down Griselbrand but meanwhile my shaman has done some work and ive gotten him down to 8 so he cant activate Grisles ridonkulous ability, i slammed down allmighty Bob who then immediatly helps me to find Stop and i say bye bye to mister Griselbrand. My Ooze has gotten bigger than hes Iona and eventhough he gets to cheat Elesh Norn into play, Ooze drives me home safely. g2 is all about my SB and wasteland, i think he had max 1 land the whole game. Result 2-0
Game 4, BR Zombartment
I really didnt know well what im facing but i was confident that i should be the runner up in this one. Game 1 once again Abrupt Decay and Stop handles the early Blasting station and creatures while Bob digs me Jitte and after opponent sees it he says " lets go for the other ". In 2nd game my turn 1 Thoughtseize shows me Contamination that i quickly tell him to discard. After that its all Bob and when Jitte shows up the game is over. I have to give props for the nice brew though. Result : 4-0
After this starts the calculation, can i ID allready? I get paired with Oops, Allspells and i just hope my opponent wants to ID and he does. We watch others play and chat abit.
Then i get paired against UWR Delver/Geist and again we do little math and decide to ID cause we both get top 4 like this and get the " hey i dont need a die roll to start these games " . I want to play against him for fun and he agrees. Game 1 and 3 are easy ( like last time we played eachother ) but in game 2 i keep the worst hand of the day ( maybe cause it wasnt so serioius game ) and Geist kills me quite fast. Its a really good matchup for me and i hope we meet at top 8.
So after all the dust has settled i see myself positioned at 2nd place after Swizz. Then i see who im gonna face and start crying inside, TES.. one of the matchups that can be too fast for me. The other thing i was missing was my thoughtseizes in the sideboard. At least i get to start the game.
Top 8 Quarters, TES
I play turn 1 Deathrite and he ponders. Im getting a little optimistic at this point cause he has nonbasic in play and i have 2 wastelands in hand. I play Bob and waste hes land and pass. Next turn he puts another nonbasic into play and brainstorms. Bob gives me gas and i waste the other land. Bob drives me home with a little help and im amazed that i won TES game 1 without any hatebears, sometimes you get lucky. Game 2 he doesnt have the combo pieces ready as fast as he needed and i get to turn 1 duress, turn 2 thalia, turn 3 ethersworn canonist and turn 4 gaddock teeg with GSZ. He thinks out hes options and quickly shakes my hand. At this point im already happy cause ive won 2 really hard matchups.
Im gonna write the rest tomorrow since i noticed its 4.26 am..
If and when you guys wanna ask " why this card and why not that card " or any other questions about this deck or maverick overall, hit me. And after reading the previous posts and playing with and against punishing fire Mav, ( not trying to undermine it at all, its totally functional card and strategy ) in a cardgame that theres punishing fire vs abrupt decay, i would bet my chips on abrupt decay any day. That is cause the current meta ( not only here, as said i practice vs all the tier 1 decks ) is what it is and decay just does more overall than punishing fire. But im encouraging you to test both and find the right one for yourself, as long as you play Maverick you cant go wrong :)
-Telkku
Last edited by Telkku; 08-27-2013 at 06:29 AM.
How was Dark Confidant? Did he do any work?
I'm rather interested how you can justify running MD Cradle, but can't fit in Karakas in the MD because of space issues.
Okay, after long day ill tell the rest.
Semifinals, ANT
My happiness that i got from the win over TES shrugs off fast cause i see what im about to face, from a ditch to another. g1 starts and my opponent casts turn 3 ETW and my Ooze and Shammy are facing 14 goblins. Thank god my hand contains Jitte and i get him down to 1 token and 6 life, he tendrils me for 8 and i go down to 1 but shammy and jitte keeps me alive. Then turn before i got the win in my grasp he topdecks the mana acceleration ( cabal ritual ) for PiF and im devastated. After tough start i got myself thinking i won this one but i was wrong. I have to mention this game i made some mistakes first time the whole day and without those i wouldve actually won the game. g2 is easy win with hatebears cause i had the start. g3 i have a good hand containing GSZ, Ooze, Duress, 2 x Thalia and Enlightened tutor with some lands. The worst case scenario happens and he names Thalia for cabal therapy, i shake my head but i know rest of the hand is still ok and i have a chance. I duress him and slow him down so he cant combo in the 2nd turn. Then i topdeck mother of runes and play it and hope for the best. He just ponders, plays a land and passes. EOT i cast tutor for Canonist. On my turn i cast GSZ and fetch my teddybear teeg to the heat of the battle, my opponent hoped i wouldve played Canonist cause he had massacre in hand. Next turn i cast ooze followed by canonist. Next turn he tries something and has alot of storm and mana, im a little worried about whats gonna happen but he just wanted to scare me for the fun of it and then he scoops. Then i turn around and ask who's my final opponent and when i get the answer i get really confident.
Final, UWR Delver / Geist
Finally a real game vs this deck. I know that odds favor me and i get to start. Head judge takes a picture from my starting hand cause its just amazing, everything is perfect. Game doesnt last long cause Bob stays out and gives me once again card advantage and i think i had 4 removals. g2 i get another nut hand. He shakes hes head but says keep. Plays land and delver. I play land and Stop which he dazes. Next turn he flips delver and plays the same land. I get to play Bob and pass. Hes stuck on 1 land, i know that i have everything to lose here so i play really safely. After destroying 2 x engineered explosives with decays before he could explode them he says " ye its prolly over, but lets see ". We play couple turns until i have 4 creatures and i cast Stoneforge mystic fetch jitte, then fetch Cradle with my KotR and equip jitte and he says GG. Im feeling really good eventhough this match was like a vacation after the TES and ANT matchups. For the price i get FTV 20 pack and 20 credits to the Finnish "SCG" Store called Poromagia. Overall deck worked as intended.
Cards that black gives us are incredible powerlevel boost to the deck and as said before ive played my share with other variations, especially with GW and i can say with these cards available to us, theres no going back for me. Abrupt Decay just handles much more than just creatures. For example Liliana is really good versus maverick. It destroys all the tough enchantments and much more. BoB shares the nomination as MVP of the deck with MoM and KotR, how do you win games? With card advantage and this is the best card there is. And if opponent uses removal for it, it saves your KotR or other threats they would normally need to deal. Thoughtseize and Duress with all the hatebears just increase your odds vs bad combo matchups. And shaman has won me games by doing damage by removing instants / sorceries, so its not here only for the mana or life. For example in the matchup vs Reanimator i wouldve lost without it. Plus it blocks critical mobs like Goblin Lackey and it can get counters to Jitte in defense unlike Noble Hierarch ( whom i still love ).
Then to the Gaea's Cradle. If you would playtest this deck for a while you would immediatly understand why but heres the reasons. First of all the deck just cant have 2 pure white mana sources, in the testing period i had hands with plains and karakas meaning 90% mulligan. 2nd and more important thing is that Karakas sometimes and i mean rarely wins you game ones and i know you can bounce your thalia for defence " yippee!!.." but thats not how you win the game. Ive won the games cause of Gaea's Cradle countless times, fetching it with KotR early game or just from hand cause i have couple mobs and arbor, then you either get to find Jitte with your Mystic or its in your hand. Cradle just gives you the winning plays with jitte, so many times opponent think that the board state is fine for him and then you play jitte with cradle, equip and attack and use the remaining lands to swap it for defense and many times its just GG after this. Would never happen turn 3 - 4 without Cradle. Now your gonna say " its only 3 off in your deck " but thats when BoB comes in, he is just incredible guy who gives me more gas ( for example jitte ). Then theres Cradle + Ooze which has won me several games too, giving me ways to beat for example Dredge in game one. Then the ways to play GSZ and another threat early on at the same time and last but not the least after sideboarding Cradle gives me way to fetch early Sigarda which is one of the best cards in many matchups ( for example Jund, Rock, Mirror, Bug ). It has just more purpose than Karakas overall and atleast i use it in 50-75% of my games. Karakas, not so much. Of course i had Karakas MD when i played GW.
Best way to see how much the black gives you is to sleeve up Dark Maverick and give it to your friend ( who knows how to play it, cause maverick is not easy one to play ) and play against it with your GW version and see what happens. Main thing is that Maverick overall is still viable and really fun deck to play, so dont give up on it!
-Telkku
Guys,
how is the maverick in a field full of combos??
Papu
Legacy
Jund
Pauper
Dark Maverick with Thalia MD and 4 discard - not bad ;) - you should named those comb-decks then use proper MD hate to fight against them, discard + hatebears looks probably best in Maverick vs combo's you can also play Mindbreak Traps vs some kind of them, more over Phyrexian Revoker can also handle Sneak Attack or LED/Belcher activation, GY dependent combos are finghing by Shamans and Oozes, you can also add Bojuka Bog MD as additional Knight of the Reliquary target.
Maverick has probably all tools which can fight most combo decks - all you need is to gather information about your future meta-play and build proper list :).
Red splash on other hand have answers like REB which isn't bad vs S&T/High Tide combos.
My meta have:
Esper
S&T
Storm
High Tide
Omnihall
Reanimate
This is the field, maybe I'm forgetting someone...
Papu
Legacy
Pauper
Maverick may not be a good choice if this represents a large portion of your metagame. Show & Tell decks are really hard for Maverick to beat on a consistent basis.
West side
Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
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As far as Sneak & Show is concerned, the only permanent that can give you really trouble is Sneak Attack since it can get around Karakas with Emrakul.
As long as you can keep Teeg alive (and don't have S&T to circumvent him) or block it with a Revoker, you're good to go. Keep a KotR in hand and wait for them to play S&T --> next turn fetch Karakas --> bingo.
Omnitell is an unwinnable bitch of a match-up, though, even with discard.
Overall, I agree with Koby that Maverick most likely doesn't perform well in such a meta.
I have had pretty good success against omnitell, though I do not know that the pilots were very good. Generally the lock needed against them is Turn 1 Mom, turn 2 Teeg to stop the big spells, and knight or karakas to stop show and tell into emrakul. Thalia can give you just enough of a clock too. I run 3 ethersworn cannonist in my board, and that will generally provide the needed hate in games 2 or 3 (combined with either mom or sylvan safekeeper). Occasionally you can "get" them with discard, but protected hatebears are the best way to go in my experience. Having 2 caverns MD really helps in getting cannonist through, or teeg in a pinch.
That isn't a lock - they'll just fetch Wipe Away and you're boned. If you give pro blue in response to the Cunning Wish, they fetch Slaughter Pact instead.
It's kind of frustrating how much they can ignore our hatebears if your opponent isn't a trained monkey. I've seen my opponents punch through ridiculously protected hatewalls with ease thanks to access to their entire deck and free spells. Your bears can buy another turn at best.
Discard is also quite limited between a potential Leyline and Brainstorm.
Against a good opponent, you either need to get lucky or have a Pridemage/O-Ring ready to dismantle their Omniscience in response to hope for the best.
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