[Deck] Dredge

[Vandalize]

I got a Turn 1 (technically?) win with Manaless on MTGO vs Mono-white.

During the games though, Thalia is a BITCH!

Also, how do I insert a video? (if possible)

EDIT: How do you guys fight through turn 1 DRS?

You need a Phantasmagorian in hand. Or you need Street Wraith to cycle in response to Deathrite Shaman's activation.

[(nameless one)]

I got a Turn 1 (technically?) win with Manaless on MTGO vs Mono-white.

During the games though, Thalia is a BITCH!

Also, how do I insert a video? (if possible)

EDIT: How do you guys fight through turn 1 DRS?

Post it on a youtube account and hope for the best I guess.

I would love to see that video.

[Mr. Froggy]

Post it on a youtube account and hope for the best I guess.

I would love to see that video.

if I get to it, I might post it tomorrow. It was awesome!

[Final Fortune]

Manaless is a different beast all together in a way. It really can be more explosive at times than traditional Dredge with its bountiful amount of recursive creatures in Ichorid and Nether Shadows to really push through 1 of the 4 Dread Returns in the deck. But then again it suffers from almost having no option to mulligan even if you're hand is a bit slow. And being even a bit slow in this format means you fall behind really quick.

On another note. I'm thinking of switching up my sideboard. At this point I really don't like the Leylines. I seriously can't remember the last time I boarded that in. I would much rather have some combination of Pithing Needle and Firestorm even if it means rolling over to the Reanimator matchup. If I did wanna shore it up though I would probably stick a Coffin Purge somewhere in there; flashback means it doesn't disrupt my overall plan and if I open with it its a nice surprise being an instant. Not to mention some recent reanimator lists are eschewing the use of Daze over Lotus Petal which means the only real way they're going to stop it is with Force.

Pithing Needle seems really good shutting down things like Knight of the Reliquary (searches up Bajuka Bog), Sneak Attack, DRS, which are things I care about more or less while still having the ability to hit artifact hate like Tormond's Crypt, Nihil Spellbomb, Relic of Progenitus,etc..

Firestorm is one I go back and forth with. Its an uncounterable discard outlet that can wipe your opponents board in a pinch. However, I have reservations about the card sometimes because its a bit of a Nonbo when u have to pitch one of your bridges. And I just simply think wiping the board doesn't play into the overall gameplan of dredge. were not really a control deck. That and its a one shot deal. You really do need something meaningful to follow it up with. So I guess I could consider one copy or two.

One of Firestorm's more useful functions is as a pseudo Dread Return, i.e. destroy multiples of your own creatures, for instance a Putrid Imp, Narcomoeba and Golgari Thug, generate X Zombie Tokens and then instead of reanimating a fatty you burn your opponent for 4 to 5 damage. But frankly, any card that simultaneously destroys your opponent's Deathrite Shaman, deals 3 damage to your opponent (including yourself) discards three cards (including any Dredger) and reaches Threshold for Cephalid Coliseum next turn belongs some where in your 75. I'm pretty sure I'd play 4 Firestorm before 4 Nature's Claim considering Leyline of the Void is a myth, Relic of Progenitus is too slow and only Miracles plays Rest in Peace compared to Deathrite Shaman being in every, other fucking deck in the format right now.

[Mr. Froggy]

I took Manaless to my weekly Legacy, finishing 5th out of 9...

Round 1: BYE (1-0)
Round 2: Tin Fins 2-1 (2-0)
Round 3: Ugw Hatebears Fauna Shaman Shits-n-giggles 0-2 (2-1)
Round 4: RUW Delver 1-2 (2-2)

Props:
Awesome people being awesome
The players for being really great
The deck when it works
Nether Shadows for being the shizz, I love these guys

Slops:
My Narcos for shitting on me....

[HammafistRoob]

Please use the Manaless thread. Did you think it was there for looks?

[Mr. Froggy]

Please use the Manaless thread. Did you think it was there for looks?

Sorry my man! Will do from now on!

[indefinite.soul]

My list right now is Quadlazer -1 Ichorid +1 DR - more towards combo, since they r heavy in my meta, i.e. need Breakthrough.

Sideboard
4 Lotus Petal - it was Leyline of the Void, but it doesn't answer Show and Tell / Sneack Attack - also heavy here.
4 Nature's Claim - Leyline does exist in my meta, also some rogue enchantress.
4 Pithing Needle - towards Firestorm, because answers better for Ooze, imo, and also can shut artifacts (doesn't answer meddling mage / MM artifact though).
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Dread Return
1 Sadistic Hypnotist - cabal therapy is one of the best win conditions in this deck, so y not cast 6 at a time? xD

For uncountered discard (Firestorm) compensation you can always DDD, especialy since u'll be on the play G2/3.
The fragility here is that I have only 1 answer (AG) to Chalice for 1.
As for Ashen Goul: hell, sometimes not having them mean I'm in trouble, but we can't fill them all...

[astormbrewing]

My big question for beginning to play Dredge is how to sideboard in Nature's Claim/Chain of Vapor and Firestorm, as I'm not sure what cards I board out first (probably Careful Study or Breakthrough?).

My list, for reference:

//Creatures
1 Flayer of the Hatebound
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
3 Golgari Thug
2 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Putrid Imp
4 Stinkweed Imp

//Spells
4 Bridge from Below
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
3 Breakthrough
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Careful Study
3 Dread Return
4 Faithless Looting

//Land
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
2 Undiscovered Paradise

//Sideboard
1 Ancestor's Chosen
1 Angel of Despair
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Firestorm
1 Ichorid
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 Nature's Claim

[Vandalize]

My big question for beginning to play Dredge is how to sideboard in Nature's Claim/Chain of Vapor and Firestorm, as I'm not sure what cards I board out first (probably Careful Study or Breakthrough?).

My list, for reference:

//Creatures
1 Flayer of the Hatebound
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
3 Golgari Thug
2 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Putrid Imp
4 Stinkweed Imp

//Spells
4 Bridge from Below
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
3 Breakthrough
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Careful Study
3 Dread Return
4 Faithless Looting

//Land
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
2 Undiscovered Paradise

//Sideboard
1 Ancestor's Chosen
1 Angel of Despair
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Firestorm
1 Ichorid
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 Nature's Claim

It really depends. Taking out Careful Studies and Breakthroughs makes your deck way inconsistent, and if you're already packing Flayer Combo, it makes your deck way more inconsistent, and reliant on LED.

If I have to grind matchups (against RUG for example), when my combo is more likely to get countered, I side out the combo. Against RUG I'd board like this: -1 Flayer, -1 Dread Return +1 Ichorid +1 Cabal Therapy

If I'm really afraid of GY removal, like Tormod's Crypt, Rest in Peace or Relic of Prongenitus, I usually side out Lion's Eye Diamond. LED speeds your combo pretty much like Breakthrough, so if your GY gets removed afterwards, you'll be in a bad shape. -4 LED +4 Nature's Claim. Or, if you can't bear removing LEDs, remove the combo, -1 Flayer -3 Dread Return -1 Breakthrough -1 Putrid Imp +4 Nature's Claim +1 Ichorid +1 Cabal Therapy.

Against Deathrite Shaman, I usually side out some combination of things (trimming), like this: -1 Flayer -1 Dread Return -1 PImp -1 Breakthrough +3 Firestorm +1 Elesh Norn/Iona.

[tyriion]

For game 2, if I need anti-hate or Nether Shadows, I usually board out LED and Breakthrough. This gives you 8 slots to play with that would be kinda all in if left in. I would hesitate before siding out dredgers. Never side out Careful Study, it's one of your best spells after siding. It doesn't only give you draws to dredge with, but also finds you your sideboard cards, enables your combo and generally is just awesome.

[HokusSchmokus]

I would suggest listening to Vandalize. Maybe side out 2-3 Dread Return plus the targets in Grindy matchups,though, as it doesn't really do enough there imo. Otherwise, trimming is key!

[DreAmiN]

Hey there !

I wanted to try a list which looks more like a Vintage List but I want advice about it in Legacy.

4 Bloodghast
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
3 Golgari Thug
4 Narcomoeba
4 Stinkweed Imp
2 Ichorid

4 Careful Study
4 Faithless Looting
3 Breakthrough

3 Dread Return
1 Griselbrand
1 Sun Titan

4 Bridge from Below

4 Lion's Eye Diamond

3 Undiscovered Paradise
2 Dakmor Salvage
4 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Coliseum
2 Petrified Field

SB: 1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
SB: 1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
SB: 4 Cabal Therapy
SB: 4 Nature's Claim
SB: 3 Unmask
SB: 2 Firestorm

I like Bloodghast in Dredge. When you are facing deck which takes time to win, slow-dredging with this list is just a pleasure. However, cutting Therapy from MD can be risky, I don't know, we are really strong G1 anyway. I think I miss some cards to answer Ooze and Yilxlid. And I was wondering about Ray of Revelation for it good flashback capacity against RiP or LLotV in resp of the trigger.

[tyriion]

I like Bloodghast in Dredge. When you are facing deck which takes time to win, slow-dredging with this list is just a pleasure. However, cutting Therapy from MD can be risky, I don't know, we are really strong G1 anyway. I think I miss some cards to answer Ooze and Yilxlid.

Why would you ever want to slow dredge a game 1? Decks like that don't have ways to interact game 1, so you just win fast. That means that Bloodghast is better off in your sideboard. Cabal Therapy is very good at producing zombies, so you want them in. Petrified Field looks clunky to me, but tbh I never even tried playing Bloodghast. But somehow I think that the Field is only good with another land in hand and then you might just as well up the count of paradise and salvage.

If you are set on Dread Return, then by all means. It's fun to play and the feeling you get from flipping your entire deck with Grisel is nice. But in the long run it's not worth it, it's win-more. You can win just as well without it. DR packages are something for the SB in a known meta where it's useful. I would definitely not go for Griselbrand. Maybe Flayer if you meet stuff that keeps you from attacking, Elesh Norn for tribal/horde decks and Iona for narrow combo decks.

[Final Fortune]

Ashen Ghoul is better than Bloodghast or Nether Shadow in Mana Dredge the majority of the time, you only want alternatives to Ichorid and Cabal Therapy (specifically Dread Return) when you're facing Surgical Extraction and need to diversify your win/kill conditions and sacrifice outlets.

I've never come across a deck I couldn't beat game 1 with just 3 Ichorid MD.

[tyriion]

Ashen Ghoul is better than Bloodghast or Nether Shadow in Mana Dredge the majority of the time, you only want alternatives to Ichorid and Cabal Therapy (specifically Dread Return) when you're facing Surgical Extraction and need to diversify your win/kill conditions and sacrifice outlets.

I've never come across a deck I couldn't beat game 1 with just 3 Ichorid MD.

I agree with the ichorids, never play a full playset game 1. Can't compare the Ghoul and Shadow, as I never tried Ghoul. I just like the fact Shadow comes back for free, the power is secondary to having bodies most of the time. As wasteland is a thing and our lands are non-basic I like not to be reliant on having actual mana in grindy games. Maybe I'm just missing something obvious.

[HammafistRoob]

Anybody think this guy could have sideboard applications?

Underworld Cerebrus. 5RB
Creature-Hound

·Can't be blocked except by 3 or more creatures.
·Cards in graveyards can't be the target of spells or abilities.
·When ~ dies, exile it and each player returns all creature cards from his or her graveyard to their hands.
6/6

Seems like it's not worth it to me. In order for it to have an impact it would have to come down turn 1, and it's only good against Surgical which costs 0 anyways so it's not even helping there.

TLDR; extremely winmore, but hilarious nonetheless.

[birdbrains]

It's third ability is kind of a nonbo with all the dredgers and ichorids that you want to actually keep in the yard. And if you really want that second effect, play Ground Seal? It's awful though.

[Que]

Played in my LGS MTG Deals yesterday. There were 36 players with 6 rounds of swiss with a cut to top 8. I would go 4-0-2 in the day and place 3rd overall piloting the same list as before (Page or so back) and giving me the ability to choose to play or draw in Top 8.

My rounds went as followed:

Round 1: Jund_Name:??? (2-0) 1-0
Round 2: G/W Maverick_Name: Brandon Chang (1-1) 1-0-1 This was an awkward draw(usually I don't really mind as it puts me in the control bracket, but still). G2 went really long and by the time I scooped we had about 7 mins or so to finish up the last game. G3 he mulls to five. We go to turns though and it ends in a draw. I believe if we had a bit more time I might have been able to pull it out, but nothing was certain.
Round 3: U/W/R Delver_Name: Jen Wong (2-1) 2-0-1; G2 Jen drops a T2 RIP and I roll over and die being able to find nothing to answer it.
Round 4: Elves_Name: Jacob Kory (2-1) 3-0-1; G1 I essentially T1 him. G2 Ooze rears its head with Gaea's Cradle mana up. G3 I nut draw him again.
Round 5: Jund_Name: Adam T (2-1) 4-0-1
Round 6: U/W/R Delver_Name: Marc Lalague (ID) 4-0-2

So I'm seeded 3rd going into top 8. Its $1,000 to be doled out. The split would mean $125 per player, however, we don't come to a split agreement and that means we have at least another round of top 8!

Top 8:
Mike Kravitz with Jund (2-0). G2 he doesn't hit the hate he needs to stop me from doing my thing. His hate included 1x Nihil Spellbomb, 2x Surgical Extraction, and his 4 MD DRS.

We then decide on a Top 4 Split and we each end up splitting $200 dollars. My overall record in the day was 5-0-2 not dropping a match. Interesting to note I went 3-0 against Jund in the day. I can say I don't really mind the MD DRS G1 still. Perhaps even G2 if they don't have a supplemental DRS or another piece of hate to back it up. Imo its way too slow to keep up with our engine.

[DreAmiN]

Ashen Ghoul is better than Bloodghast or Nether Shadow in Mana Dredge the majority of the time, you only want alternatives to Ichorid and Cabal Therapy (specifically Dread Return) when you're facing Surgical Extraction and need to diversify your win/kill conditions and sacrifice outlets.

I've never come across a deck I couldn't beat game 1 with just 3 Ichorid MD.

Real question there, why is it played in Vintage Dredge over Ashen or Nether ?

Perhaps even G2 if they don't have a supplemental DRS or another piece of hate to back it up. Imo its way too slow to keep up with our engine.

Yeah pretty much, DRS is just good to take off our DR target, otherwise it's not that much of a threat.

Btw guys, everytime I'm testing Dredge, I win G1 (just like anyone playing Dredge I guess) but game 2 I'm alaways facing like 8 slots of GY hate. LLotV/RiP + Artifact or even Jötun, I can't get Nature's Claim for 8 slots, that's just unreal, how do I face it ?