Sorry. I forgot to actualy press the submit reply button earlier... Massacre is still a decent option as it kills off MOM protecting the Knight from your Abrupt Decay. I see that you play 60 cards. I play 61 so that would be my second GSZ but I just like playing 61 card decks. Bob would be another possible cut, but if you are in a grindy meta I could see keeping them. As for Plateau, I also play one more land than you so that is where my Plateau goes. Yeah either adding a 61st card to be GSZ, or cutting both Bobs than adding GSZ + Green Threat (Daybreak RangerOriginally Posted by Wozmaz90
) or something is a possibility.
Went 2-2 (really 1-2 Thanks Bye!) but actually felt like a good night for practice
Dredge in round one was a beating. Game 1 I get smashed in. Game 2 I had a double Mox Diamond hand with Bojuka Bog and wasteland and loam. That was a sick one. Game 3 I mull to 6 and fin Mox Diamond, Bog, Thicket, 2x Chalice, Library. Meh Awkward but I keep. I play Mox Diamond go hoping to get him with Bog, but he plays a Natures Claim on it :( and I lose to him grinding me with Putrid Imp and never really do too much. That was a frustrating game.
RIP Miracles with Blood Moon!!!!! Yay! Game 1 I Decay his first RIP. He plays a T4 Helm, then rips a RIP off of the top to kill me on T5 :( Game 2 goes long and grindy, but in the end after he entreats me for 4 angels and I deal with them and blood moon a few times, he gets there with another Entreat I believe after we grind for a long time.
Bye! I play EDH because I suck at magic! I found out that Arcum Dagson is a very ridonkulous general. Borby Enraged wasnt ready.
Round 4 we end up playing for the lulz (Alphastryk) against RIP Miracles featuring more blood moons!
Game 1 goes way long. I library myself down to 1 life, but His only V Clique is dead and I have Slaughter Games'd his Entreats. He Helms me for 7 (No RIP out) and gets a KOTR but I decay it. Throughout this game I have used all 4 of my wishes (HullBreach destroying Blood Moon, Maelstrom Pulse Destroying RIP, Slaughtergames naming Entreat, then finally a Dreadbore targeting his final Jace which gets forced. Eventually after PFiring him a bunch earlier I EOT a Dryad Arbor with him at one and get there. Game 2 he gets an early RIP and Helms me. Game 3 he gets Blood Moon Down with Meddling Mage naming Decay, but luckily my hand is 2x Countryside Crusher and 4x spells I will never cast. I end up Crushing Countrysides. Man I love that dude.
Overall, like Jeff said, Miracles is an incredibly skill intensive MU. I feel it is winnable, but very difficult. I will definitely be playing Reverent Silence next week. I continue to love Hull Breach in the board in my Meta full of Blood Moons. Was going to test Goyfs out but the guy I was going to borrow from got sick. God at this point Im half debating playing Verdant Catacombs as my Fetches and playing basic Forest and Swamp in this hostile Meta.
EDIT: I remember in round 2 Game 2 I played a DDreams for 4 with him at 5 lands out and a couple of Entreat Tokens. He proceeds to rip RIP. Plays his second land and fucks me. I regret not just DDreams for 5. Would have at leasxt kept him off of a RIP for at least one turn.
I'm really interested in brewing a Loam list with Young Pyromancer. It has been touched on briefly earlier in this thread already, so here is my list.
CREATURES
2 Countryside Crusher (Not sure on this. Deck needs a beater and this seemed like the best at closing out games and avoiding land flood late game)
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Eternal Witness
4 Young Pyromancer
SPELLS
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Burning Wish
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
3 Life from the Loam
3 Liliana of the Veil (Not sure on number. With DRS and Mox, turn 2 Lilly seems strong, but maybe not relevant enough against combo. Thoughtseize?)
3 Mox Diamond
3 Punishing Fire
LAND
23
# Grove of the Burnwillows
# Wasteland
# ON Cycling lands
# Fetches
# Taiga, Bayou, Badlands
? Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
I'm having a hard time with the mana base, as the deck is color hungry but also wants to run Wasteland and some number of ON Cycling lands (Forgotten Cave, Tranquil Thicket, Barren Moor).
Sideboard would contain assorted wish targets as a toolbox, including Raven's Crime, and possibly Flame Jab, to combo w/ Pyromancer, as well as LftL number 4.
Last edited by CaptainTwiddle; 08-30-2013 at 12:04 AM.
The lack of Dark Confidant or Sylvan Library in that list is puzzling. The 1/1 tokens are not particularly relevant unless you can kill literally all of your opponent's creatures (not happening) or you have a lot of them, and 1-2 Loams per turn is just not going to cut it. Plus, relying on Loam to trigger Pyromancer regularly makes you super easy to shut down post-board. Confidant and Library provide extra sources of long-term card advantage and dig you into more spells to fuel Pyromancer without needing the graveyard to do so.
Not running Assault or Dreams also seems wrong to me. Why run Loam at all, then? You can just play Punishing Jund and not have to stuff your deck full of lands and Diamonds and other do-nothings. Hell, Pyromancer seems fine in Punishing Jund, especially in conjunction with a bigger discard suite to strip your opponent of his ability to stabilize against your 1/1s.
Im glad someone agrees with me about YP. In a deck that is only trying to cast 2 CMC spells for the most part, getting an extra 1/1 per turn is very meh. This deck is all about synergies and all, but the only synergies that an extra 1/1 provides in this deck is a chump blocker
The idea with YP is to gain added value while disrupting the opponent. Burn a creature, get 1/1. Make them discard, get a 1/1. And the synergy of YP with Cabal Therapy is insane.
In looking over the list again, I think that it does need more instants/sorceries to take better advantage of YP. I'm thinking cut 2 Liliana for a Thoughtseize and a Raven's Crime.
As for Aggro_zombies's comments, you're probably right that the deck needs either Dark Confidant or Sylvan Library. But Devasting Dreams seems really bad, as it kills you YP and all the tokens you've made. Seismic Assault seems hard on the mana, is not a instant/sorcerie, and failed to impress me in previous Loam builds.
Another problem I'm having is the number of different cards I'd like to run in this list. Smallpox and Lightning Bolt both come to mind. I've also considered splashing white for Knight of the Reliquary and Lingering Souls, but I don't think the mana could support it.
In the end, maybe Hooglan's 4C Loam Control list is just better.
But like he said, if you aren't paying stuff like dreams and assault, why not just skip loam and play jund? You basically have named everything from jund except instead of BBE you play loam and ravens crime. I see your point, but loam is already a somewhat underwhelming engine, and assault and dreams gives you a splashy effect that makes loam worth it
Seismic Assault is only hard on the mana if you're also going to run Liliana, since then you need to hit BB, RRR, and at least GG reliably, or if you want to be greedy and run four colors. Also, for several years, Assault was literally the only good reason to consider running a Life from the Loam deck; if it "failed to impress" you, you probably don't want to be playing Aggro Loam.
Dreams completely crushes a number of non-blue fair decks in the format, so it is at least a sideboard consideration. Pyromancer merely chumps in many of those matchups, while Dreams will take your opponent out of the game, so the swap is usually pretty clean.
Raven's Crime is a really bad Mind Twist. If you're considering running Crime, you might want to try drawing up a Punishing Jund list and stick YP in that - it is probably far more effective.
A few posts ago, I was a pyromancer believer as well. Megadeus explained it perfectly. Yp might be a nice engine, but not with loam. It's just too cute. Furthermore, you don't want that extra value of the token and you certainly don't want it to be your kill. If you want tokens as a kill, I found a singleton worm harvest to be awesome. There are a lot of long, grindy match ups in my meta. Worm harvest helps.
So you should either play a more traditional loam list (4cc, aggro, control, June, whatever suits your needs) play a whole bunch of games and gently start tweaking if necessary, or just play another shell for Yp.
I'm fairly confident that the best shell for Yp is a tempo type build, u/r or something. A whole bunch of brainstorm, lightning bolt, chain lightning, ponder, daze, fow, delver etc. But I might be wrong.
Currently I play Jeff hooglands list, it's just a breath of fresh air to have so many options. It's just exactly my style of mtg.
My eyes were bleeding on that round 6. Awful performance
I just caught the tail end of it. Looked tough. Lots of mis plays or what?
Sorry for my english, Im an american who forgot his own native language hehe (18 years away).
I cant remember all the missplays I saw but i would do my best.
On G1, He was on the draw with a very good hand. Opp started with land into DRS. He draws, plays a wasteland mox diamond (pitching badlands I think) into Sylvan library which got countered by FOW (he had chalice of the void in hand, which is a very good FoW bait or in any other case, it would stop any second DRS copy, brainstorms or bait an abrupt decay which could destroy your library -which you play only 2 copies and would give you plenty more advantage on the draw). Second turn his opponent landed a second DRS... then a goyf, jace, decay, GG.
On G2, he started just with a Wooded Foothills, his oponent with a Creeping Tar Pit. T2 chalice at 1 (he fetches a savannah telegraphing a turn 3 KOTR or Thalia and having no protection for his lands, people underestimate the power of your SINGLE basic land). The oponent land a trop island and end his turn. Turn 3 (he commits I think the worst thing you can do) He had 1 Thalia, 1 LFTL, 1 Wasteland and I think a burning wish on hand. He wasteland the creeping tar pit and cast the Thalia with no other land drops on his hand. EVERY single time he should have Loam, he's not the beater deck... BUG shardless play at least twice creature than his deck (he could land the third land into Agent-Goyf or worst) or just wasteland your green source and GG.
Another missplays I remember, He fetches for a Plateau (which was the best dual land in that turn) but he took it back and played a second Taiga (He had KOTR on his hand and then he couldnt cast it).
His oponente board was 5 lands 2 DRS 1 Agent. He draws a Devastating dreams (he did have a burning any case). Burning wish for Loam, put a wasteland on play and THEN cast a devastating dreams for 3 (having 4 cards left in his hand). He should keep that wasteland on hand and do a dreams for 2 instead of 3 (was he afraid of jace? :S) he discarded his single loam which got exiled before the resolution of dreams with the shaman.
At some point he was at 4 and just a single land, he draws a cycle land and draw... risking a safe land drop for a random card from the top (he top decked a Maze of Ith, but it was a suboptimal play any case).
On early game on G1 he had a online DRS, his oponent used the DRS giving him a window for loaming. He had Nantuko Monastery on the GY and he just picked any land he first saw. If you have 1-of cards, you should try to save them most of the times, especially Nantuko Monastery which can take down a PWs pretty easily.
Anyway, he didnt draw any Punishing Fire and drew GSZ with dryad on hand. Bad luck, dude! He was 4-1-1 at the end of that round... I hope he can do a straight 3 wins for top8!
In other news, Jeff Hoogland is 7-1 until now...great!
PS: He did 3 straight wins to top 8! I hope to see both aggro loam on finals hehehe
He isn't in t8, right? Too bad, would've love to see that.
[edit] duh, kurt is....
Yes, he won R9 against deathblade making 3 wins in a row since R6. Quarter final against belcher -.-
Super awkward vs Belcher. Our chalices aren't overly effective vs them unfortunately. I personally think Chalice on 0 > Chalice on One in this match up. Either way they are kind of meh. (not that I would board them out).
led is the most effective card (0x3 mana) to either activate belcher or a good burning wish
Too bad, he lost. He did have nice hands, but Ben starting seemed the doom.
Twas rough. Unfortunate. Ugh Blood Moons are going to be everywhere in two weeks when I play the open lol. I may play reverent silence and Hull Breach both in my SB...
Welcome to the perils of playing a greedy deck.
I love the 4C loam list of Hoogland, but I have a problem. Nic Fit is terrible to play against, in particular the Scapeshift version. I have chalice on one and gaddock teeg as good cards against them, but they have plenty of answer to those. A scary scapeshift wrecks me. Perhaps it's not a deck you run in too often, but some local players play it here.
I really have the feeling that a better player than me would win, though. I still suck at the decision-making process, I guess. Do more experienced players have some clear do's and don'ts with the 4C Hoogland list?
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