ah kk, thx
Hi there,
missing here for a quite long time. I've just read all the waves of innovation this deck had recently... deathrite shamans seem pretty good! I'm not totally sold of not running an underground sea though, i feel that having the possibility to shrink a beefy tarmogoyf or to exile a snapcaster mage's target could be a great deal, and even slowly cleaning an ANT graveyard could have its purposes.
I could agree with the cut of the third eldrazi-brother Kozilek (with new rulings it's getting hard to remove an opponent's Karakas) but i'm a little bit doubtful about the greedy manabases you're showing. Maybe it's my variegated meta, but wasteland here is still a thing. Playing all the new big dudes seems hard to me without relying on additional form of land denying defense (pithing needle, i'm thinking of you) or additional speed (candelabra). Oracle of Mul Daya could help in the latter sense, but you still have to reach 4 mana to play it, and i find this quite complicated against tempo decks that can easily disrupt you in the first turns. I was thinking about using Trinket Mages again...
Also, how are your last records against Omnitell?
Interesting that you mention this, because all my testing the last few weeks with Deathrite have been specifically to address these aims. Reach without black, explosiveness, and resilience are all key aspects I've been aiming to solve. Last week's weekly event I tested Thragtusk for the first time and was highly pleased. I took an untuned list to Baltimore, but still could have top 8'd had I not misplayed terribly in the 3rd to last round, before I could draw in. This Tuesday's weekly event had me lose only to a mis-side against burn. This is the list I've come up with recently:Originally Posted by Davek
// Lands
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
4 [TSP] Vesuva
3 [IA] Forest (3)
1 [MI] Island (4)
3 [U] Tropical Island
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [MR] Cloudpost
// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
4 [M13] Thragtusk
2 [ZEN] Oracle of Mul Daya
4 [RTR] Deathrite Shaman
1 [PRE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
// Spells
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [V09] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [US] Show and Tell
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [AL] Force of Will
SB: 4 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [FUT] Venser, Shaper Savant
SB: 3 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 [CS] Commandeer
The debatable slots are the 1 candelabra, and the 2 commandeer. The rest is virtually set in stone. THe commandeer slot could also be 2x Sea of Primordium. The candelabra slot could be many things, from GSZ, to expedition map; I even tested Momir Vig.
The 4x thragtusk is an interesting addition. Is he enough in the tempo/aggro matchups? Your curve has also been steadily rising; you're now running 2x4, 4x5, 4x6 as opposed to having more 1-2 cc spells. Has this been an issue where you get wasted+having your deathrite killed?
Also: a random sb card that might be fun versus any show and tell variants is take possession. Potentially better than commandeer since the 2x extra blue cards in hand might be a bit much. It pretty much hoses every show and tell target besides dream halls. You can also cast it, unlike pretty much every other deck in the format.
Aura effects and show and tell don't work as you think. Auras look to legal choices prior to Show and Tell's resolution. Considered it long ago. Commandeer is there as yet another free counter, allowing you to tap out for win cons, but also pitches only 1 blue card with dream halls in play. Make their deck work for you, and this deck can hardcast it.
Thragtusk has proven very strong. Decks that provide pressure with wastes (Rug/aggro) lose to show and tell. Those that provide hand disruption and wastes (bug/esper/jund/deathblade) lose to Thragtusk and give you the time to cast him. The balance is odd, but works. Deathrite living or dying is incidental. Often he is a healing salve versus these decks.
About the curve rising steadily, I did joke around with my teammate and peers at my weekly venue that I'm slowly turning this deck into mid-range green aggro, which is only half-joking. The format has no real mid-range deck at the moment, so justifiably it could fit that role, albiet very loosely. I dubbed this version "Turbo Eldrazi: Nic Fixed" mostly to irritate our resident Nic Fit player, who loathes me.
Oh yea, facepalm. Forgot that take possession is an aura not an oblivion ring effect. Either way though, I might give this list a spin. I do like me some midrange.
They all loath you. That's why it's the most warped metagame I've ever seen.
Would you respect one Tabernacle in the side as a tutorable thing against Elves?
Also, what you do you side out against combo in the new build? I'm guesing you switch from agro to control?
Guessing:
- 4 DRS
- 4 Thragtusk
- 2 Oracle
- ? Crop Rotation
- 1 Glacial
- 1 Bog
- 1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
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Tabernacle doesn't work vs elves... Archdruid, plus gaea's cradle, plus the awful potential of priest of titania, plus quirion ranger to double the effect.... Needless to say, taxing elves is a foolish proposition unless its something like sphere of resistance (which is ironically terrible in this format).What you need vs elves is either mass removal (spot removal doesn't cut it), or timewalks (fogs).
Eh, I wouldn't call it "the most warped meta." Who is this? Most people there play what they like, and have the best possible defense against this deck, experience. The 15-18 regulars in this store are well versed at how to beat me, what avenues to take, and what hands to keep against me, but they don't warp their decks to beat me.
Also the siding plan is far from straightforward. Nearly every deck involves some form of siding, all dependent on the matchup itself. Sometimes staying aggro will beat them, sometimes you have to take out nearly all your creatures, sometimes you side out all the eldrazi's and ugin. The plans vary drastically.
Hi Guys, I've been playing 12-post for about 9 months now to pretty good success, and wanted to jump in on the conversation.
I've found Deathrite Shaman to be absolutely incredible in this deck. He just does so much work nullifying wastelands, gaining life, eating removal. All sorts of good stuff.
I'm currently running two Venser, Shaper Savant's in my mainboard instead of Oracles. I feel that the tempo that Venser grants is more valuable that Oracle's ramp, which seems more "win-more" to me. Venser has won me a couple games so far, I'm almost always happy to see him.
My big things right now is trying to seriously rethink the sideboard situation. My meta is very combo-heavy, which makes this deck a big liability (I've been playing high tide on and off because it's a much better matchup, but this deck is just more fun). In my experience, countermagic out of the board just doesn't seem to be cutting it. ANT decks make such quick work of my hand and I sit there helpless while they win. My two considerations right now are Thorn of Amethyst and Leyline of Sanctity. I feel like there's absolutely no reason for us to not be running Thorn in the sideboard. It shuts down combo like crazy, and once they start stacking it becomes almost impenetrable. Combo this with some early Chalice of the Void's on 0 and 1, and we're pretty much home free. To me this seems much more stable than running 4 mindbreak traps and 4 flusterstorms.
On the other hand, adding some leylines into the board would prevent storm from ripping our countermagic from our hand, but that seems iffy. We have no way to hardcast the leyline, and they just become dead-draws after turn 0.
I'd love to get people's thoughts on this. Also, any advice against combo in game 1 would be much appreciated. I consistently face storm at least once at every legacy tourney, so I really need a contingency plan.
Isn't Batterskull in this deck outright nastier than Thragtusk?
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Thragtusk gives immediate lifegain and lives through removal. But a thragtusk WITH a batterskull on it. I could only dream.
Storm shouldn't be as terrible a matchup as you say. Crop on bog or show & tell -> titan both severly set them back game 1. Game two you side in 13-15 cards, and I'm amazed that isn't sufficient. The only deck I would consider this not satisfying against is TES with xantid/silence, where you would want to change vensers for glen elendras and definitely go to 4 fow over 3.
I've only lost one match to storm in the last two years, and it was entirely my own fault.
You can still bounce in response to removal. 4/4 vigilant lifelinker is better than 5 life EtB imo.
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I think you're looking in a vacuum and far less holistically. Even in a vacuum thragtusk is more cost-effective than batterskull. Thragtusk's weakness against abrupt decay is significantly less than batterskulls. Weaknesses to pierce, and strengths against liliana/jace are also enormous. The only benefit batterskull has over Thragtusk is it enables late game Deathrites to become dangerous, and synergizes with Thragtusk.
Hi, i have also problems vs ANT. How u mean that s&t into Titan = gg? can u give some playtips?
Just simply that ANT has issues with lifegain over 10, and a turn 2 show and tell on Titan can gain you 6-10, or bog them. Game 1 it is your best aggressive play.
Game two you side in all your counter magic, going down to minimal win cons, and play the disruption game and keep counters atop library with SDT.
kk. game two was clear. but game one i missplayed hard. realy thx. i would appreciate, if u make a "how to play" plan with short strategy`s vs different decks ;)
I´m interested, how u play vs Staxx (dutch and artefact staxx) and esper blade
Esper is one of the easier matchups for the deck. All you need to be wary of is an early aggressive play of SFM -> Batterskull, wherein you can Repeal the Germ token for the low, low cost of U. Other than that, they can do little to disrupt you save for the occasional discard and/or counter. You should be able to ramp naturally with little trouble, as a lot of lists don't run Wastelands. Your late-game is difficult for them to stop, so as long as their hand is slow, you should have little trouble with the deck.
Deathblade variants are a different animal. Every creature they play is problematic, and they run more land-removal in the form of Vindicate. Know what opening hand to keep and it should still be a winnable matchup pre- and post-board.
As for Staxx, I am afraid I do not have experience with the deck, as it is very rare in our meta. I would be wary of Armageddon, as it will ruin your day. With the new build, you should have plenty of permanents to sacrifice to Smokestack before resorting to sacrificing your lands, though again Bounce effects would really help there, though I would playtest the matchup heavily if it's pretty common in your local meta.
Been testing a more combo-y build recently. Here's the initial list. Results have been strong, despite running explore, which I have always abhor'd.
// Lands
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
4 [TSP] Vesuva
3 [IA] Forest (3)
1 [MI] Island (4)
4 [U] Tropical Island
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [MR] Cloudpost
// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
4 [M13] Thragtusk
3 [ZEN] Oracle of Mul Daya
1 [PRE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
// Spells
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [V09] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [US] Show and Tell
3 [WWK] Explore
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [AL] Force of Will
SB: 4 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 3 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 [EVE] Glen Elendra Archmage
SB: 2 [TSP] Wipe Away
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