61 cards, it's unorthodox, some might even call it HERESY!! I can't bring myself to do it, maybe I'll test some of it. Can something that feels so wrong be right:) Anyway good luck with it:)
I always use the 16th sb card as the 61 card on my main deck. Especially on loams deck which you can dredge through your deck so easily. I play 27 lands on my aggro loam and 34 spells
This. With Dredging and having KOTR as a tutor effect, the 61st card really doesnt change much in percentages compared to other decks. I believe Im at 28 lands right now. Id like to cut another one for a GSZ though.Originally Posted by KntrellCL
I apologize for double posting, but... Someone please convince me that Daybreak Ranger is a shitty card and that I shouldn't play it at the open.
Its a shitty card, you shouldn't play it at the open. You play punishing fire to kill x/2s, why play pfire on a stick that costs more than tarmogoyf and is not kotr/crusher/terravore.
Okay.
1) It has the same CMC as Knight, Terravore, and Crusher, all of which are more synergistic with this deck's game plan. Overloading on three-drops makes the deck top-heavy and susceptible to tempo plays or aggressive starts from opponents.
2) The day-side tap ability is not very relevant. It is worse than either Grim Lavamancer or Punishing Fire since it has targeting restrictions and requires a tap.
3) The day-side body is not very relevant. Vanilla 2/2s Do Not Cut It in Legacy.
4) Flipping this creature from day- to night-side involves giving up casting spells on your turn, which is not a normal line of play in a deck with a number of recursion elements. You could hope that your opponent can't play spells on his turn, but given the cheapness of spells in Legacy, this is plan is suspect.
5) The night-side body is approximately Tarmogoyf-sized, but for more mana and the cost of tempo. A blue opponent can easily flip this card back over unless you have Chalice in play first, in which case you're using a reasonably card to enable a crappy one. It's also smaller than a Knight, Crusher, or Terravore would be, but for the same amount of mana.
6) The night-side body is easy for you to flip back over: a Loam plus any other spell will do it, or multiple Punishing Fire casts in a single turn will do it (often necessary when taking out larger targets).
7) The fight ability on the night-side either involves tapping your 4/4 to take out something much smaller than a 4/4 or suiciding your 4/4 into your opponent's creature. Neither of those things are exactly something you want to do with the beefy guy you spent a turn to level up.
8) The day-side will not survive most Devastating Dreams, and the night-side will not survive most mid- to large-sized Dreams.
But hey, if you like it, then run it.
You guys convinced me. Still the card isnt the worst thing in the world. Played with Goyfs for the first time ever in a tourney setting and I gotta say. That is a damn good card. All in all I went 2-2, but thems the beats. Our local meta is horribly hostile to Loam decks at the moment unfortunately.
Round 1: UWR Delver
Game 1 He gets a T1 Delver to flip, counters my punishing fire, and gets a Geist down and I die to a top decked red source for lethal Lightning Bolt
Game 2 He begins with Delver and Meddling Mage naming Punishing Fire and begins the beats. He gets a GoST down and the turn before Im dead I rip a Burning wish for Massacre and wipe his board. He puts in a Batterskull at some point but I have a larger KOTR. I play Gaddock Teeg and begin beating him with Teeg and Dryad Arbor. He plays RIP and shuts down PFire and loam, but at some point I play a chalice for 1 and he just draws stone nothing threat wise.
Game 3 He doesnt do too much. I get early PFire for his delvers and stuff and waste him down. He gets down a RIP but I wish for Reverent Silence and get it. Eventually after a few turns of dryad Arbor Beats I get a 5/5 KOTR and he doesnt have any lands and he dies.
1-0
Round 2: Burn Yuck
Game 1 I keep a decent hand, but not decent vs burn. I die on like T4 to double Lightning Bolt.
Game 2 I get a chalice on one and get 2 KOTR down, but from 13 life he double Price of Progress, and then Fireblasts me. Hooray!
1-1
Round 3: UWR Stone Blade
Game 1 He gets an early V Clique against me and Tempos me down by countering my recurring PFire every turn. He eventually gets me to 1 until my PFire finally does the job. Damn Spell Snare. I get KOTR, Goyf and Teeg down and he mis plays by chump blocking with his Snapcaster. He doesnt draw the red source he needs for Lightning Bolt in hand to finish the job.
Game 2I get early Teeg down and Punishing Fire some stuff. He Casts Stoneforge getting BSkull, along with having something else on board. I Devastate his Dreams and he gets mana screwed a bit, but gets RIP down which slows me down, but the Grey Ogre of KOTR gets there. Chalice for one also came down at some point and ruined his day. I believe Blood Moon also came down at some point in this game and I had to wish then hard cast reverent silence to kill off Blood Moon and RIP.
2-1
Round 4: UWR RIP Blood Moon Miracles. These goddamn Blood Moon RIP decks are everywhere. I guess its better than being paired vs the Belcher guy.
Due to awkward Breakers I had to play to get in.
Game 1: He gets Blood Moon and RIP against me, but Reverent Silence kills them both. I also get a chalice for 1 down, but unfortunately I cant do anything about his Clique, plus Jace, plus second RIP and I die to a top decked Helm.
Game 2 I get a bit mana screwed but Im not doing horribly with Thalia and Teeg out. He Swords Teeg and Casts Jace and Bounces Thalia. I get a chalice for 1 at some point but he gets counterbalance so instead of recasting Thalia, I save my Decay for the CB at the EoT. He casts a RIP. EoT I cast Decay on CB. He Misdirections it back at my chalice. Im so deflated I just scoop out of frustration. I wasnt going to end up winning anyway...
Overall I felt like I made tight plays for the most part. I missed only one sylvan library trigger, and managed to make sure no one cheated one drops through my chalices. Reverent Silence was a house, but I also wish that I had been playing the Hull Breach tonight. Ill probably play Hull Breach at the open. Its just such a good answer to Blood Moon. I have dropped the Daybreak Ranger to add in a second Green Sun's Zenith. My buddy is letting me borrow his foil Goyfs for the Open... That will be nice alongside my anti pimp everything else lol. Hopefully the Open Meta isn't as hostile towards loam decks as my local is at this point. At least I got to test versus all flavors of UWR tonight!
Good luck! Looking forward to a report when you get back:)
2-0 so far. Beat URW Delver then (yikes!) Hypergenesiz
Finished 6-2-1. Tourney report probably tomorrow
Last edited by Megadeus; 09-16-2013 at 12:06 AM.
Report is up for anyone who cares/wishes to read about a bad player being good
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...041#post752041
Gratz on the finish Megadeus! You money'd through some pretty iffy matchups while I became a Duplicant after going 0-3 against incredibly favorable matchups. Props, man!
I decided to run the Volrath's Stronghold as the 61st card in the stock 2 Goyf list at the Open. While it obviously didn't give me a winning record it was instrumental in the few victories I did manage to attain.
0-2 against Shardless Bug
1-2 against Merfolk
0-2 against Jund
2-0 against Merfolk
2-0 against Veteran Explorer Rock
1-2 against Affinity with Force of Wills (wtf)
I may edit in a report later, if I'm feeling masochistic.
Mini Report from store credit weeklies; went 3-0 against Affinity, Elves, and GW Maverick. I'm pretty lucky I didn't play against any blue decks. I'm playing a pretty stock Hoogland-style deck with Bojuka Bog MD, 2 Dark Confidants, and 2 Sylvan Libraries.
I've loved and played Aggro Loam for a loooooooooooong time, in the Jund version with Seismic Assault and Countryside Crusher, and I have to say, playing 4 colors with Knight of the Reliquary is just fuggin' amazing. He's normally gigantic, creates a real clock and the ability to tutor any land in your deck just puts Countryside Crusher to pasture forever. Though I only took advantage of it twice, this wishboard version is so effective and fun to play. I'm afraid of anything blue, however, because a countered DD devastates your own dreams worse than anything.
I see that this deck probably has most of its problems with Miracles and Tempo which is why people play Thalia in the Sideboard, but I can't help but feel she's too little. Any suggestions y'all have for blue matchups?
My Sideboard:
2x Massacre
1x Perish
1x Virtue's Ruin
1x Devastating Dreams
1x Shattering Spree
1x Chainer's Edict
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Dreadbore
1x Slaughter Games
3x Thoughtseize
1x Reanimate
1x Life from the Loam
Round 1 - Affinity
Game 1: I land a T1 Mox Diamond and Chalice for 1, since his deck is running approximately the same amount of 0-cost and 1-cost spells, but is mostly to prevent a Signal Pest explosion and shut down his Dispatches (he maindecks 2). He lands an early Etched Champion, which we have no easy out for, but I have an early Maze of Ith keep him from running me over. I land a Knight of the Reliquary and a Devastating Dreams helps to clears part of his board except for the Champion, and then I use Knight to get Grove online. This is where I make a series of misplays, which combined with the fact that I can't get a damn Burning Wish, causes a 45 minute durdle-fest. Misplay #1: I have Grove online and while I'm digging I'm forgetting I can be doming him for 1 or 2 per turn (minor, but, it adds up). Misplay #2: He Dispatches my Knight and I forgot Chalice on 1 was in play until 2 turns later, which was too late. We both "got a warning" for not maintaining board state and my Knight stays exiled. Finally, I get a Sylvan Library online with <20 cards left in my deck, all 4 of the Burning Wishes in those 20. He lands another Etched Champion and at that point I'm pretty much boned. I'm at 3 life from previous beats so I can't draw m0ar cards than my 1, but at last I get a Burning Wish, thinking I can maybe get a Maelstrom Pulse to take out the 3 Cranial Platings, and remember I have Chainer's Edict to take out one of his Champions, then flash it back next turn to take out the last one. I swing for exactly Lethal the following turn (him at 23 life) with a 16/16 Knight of the Reliquary, a 5/6 Tarmogoyf, and a 2/2 Gaddock Teeg.
Game 2: We were 3 minutes until we went to time when Game 1 ended, which can be enough for an Affinity player with a good opening hand and/or aggressive mulliganning. I didn't board anything in or out (the magic of this deck, IMHO), and I found out later that he boarded in 1x Surgical Extraction, 2x Pithing Needle, and 2x Tormod's Crypt. Right when we started Game 2 we went to time and he was on the play with an almost explosive opener of Mox Opal, Seat of the Synod, and Frogmite. I have a pretty awful starting hand - a one-lander with Mox Diamond, and then mulligan to anotherone-lander with Mox Diamond, PFire, and Chalice of the Void. I keep, hoping I'll draw out of it. I don't. On my first turn I play a Chalice on 0, which ends up being my insurance against him, as his next turn he lands an Inkmoth Nexus (fuuuuuuu). I don't draw another land. He plays an Arcbound Ravager on his final turn, which could spell disaster, but was only able to get to 8 poison tokens with the Nexus, which was not enough to win. It turns out he hand 2 Tormod's in hand and 2 Dispatches. The Chalice on 0 saved my ass, preventing him from getting a high enough artifact count for the Ravager trix. It was later suggested to him that he should have mulled down to get rid of the Dispatches, but such is the nature of Magic.
1-0
Round 2 - Elves
Game 1: I have an early Mox Diamond, Chalice on 1, Punishing Fire, Grove of the Burnwillows, and Devastating Dreams, which completely controls his board. I durdle for 20 minutes, doming him with PFire and attacking with a Dryad Arbor, drawing no creatures, at which point he's at 4 life and I get a Nantuko Monastery and attack for lethal.
Game 2: I don't side anything out/in. Similar to Game 1, but with more business - I get a Mox Diamond and Chalice on 1 early on, control his board, and get a Knight of the Reliquary on turn 5 or so, then kill him with Knight and Nantuko Monastery in 2 turns for 10 damage per turn.
2-0
Round 3 - GW Maverick - we decided to intentionally draw, but played it out anyway
Game 1: He's one of the best players in our crew, who knows his deck inside and out and very often places 1st or 2nd. I have an opening hand of 3 lands, a Burning Wish, a Devastating Dreams, Chalice of the Void, and Abrupt Decay. Not awful. He's on the play and plays a T1 Noble Hierarch and I draw a PFire and play a land (hurray). He plays a Knight of the Reliquary, which effectively nulls my Devasting Dreams, then plays a Jitte. He attacks pretty early with the just the Knight and me on two lands for 5 and I tank for a minute, wondering if I should Decay the Knight or the Jitte. Very stupidly I Decay the Jitte, thinking that if I Decayed the Knight he would go get a Wasteland, which I found out later would have been his play. I scoop after he plays a Thalia and I don't draw anything relevant the next turn with only 3 lands.
Game 2: Better start for me, as an early Bojuka Bog into PFire on his Knight of the Reliquary, followed by a Burning Wish into Devastating Dreams that wiped his board of a Fauna Shaman and Thalia. He plays a Dryad Arbor, followed next turn by a Scavenging Ooze while I have a grip of Sylvan Library, Abrupt Decay, and two lands. Both Life from the Loam and PFire were in my yard at that time. This was a semi-critical turn, as I rightly realized I needed to get rid of the the Ooze immediately or lose both my Loam and PFire. I Abrupt Decay the Ooze, he exiles the Loam. Next turn he GSZs for another Scavenging Ooze and is tapped out. I topdeck another Abrupt Decay and he scoops with only 1 card in hand.
Game 3: And another game to prove that against non-blue decks, Devastating Dreams lives up to its name. I clear his board early on with a Devastating Dreams, me with a Mox Diamond and Chalice on 1 in play, hand full of lands and a Knight, him with a lonely Jitte. He plays a Plains, draws no lands while I beat with Knight, and that's all she wrote.
3-0
-------------
Fun night, fun deck.
Whack lists currently playing:
Rector Nic Fit
Bizarro Stormy
Rest In Pieces
Great job! But to be honest I like the tempo match up. Sure a countered devastating dreams is rough, but this deck plays so many must counter threats. Tempo actually can't beat resolved KOTR. lol. Miracles is another beast. That match is super grindy and very skill intensive. Just be sure not to over extend. And attempt to play around RIP as much as possible.
Thanks Megadeus, it has been so fun to jump back on the Loam-wagon. BWish and DD have made this deck so much better and give you a real consistent, not-always-durdly gameplan.
Thankfully I see RIP in only two decks: Miracles and D&T, and currently none of them are being played in my meta. If I were to take this to an SCG Open I'd definitely put Thalias and Canonists in the side, but I almost feel like there could be something better.
Whack lists currently playing:
Rector Nic Fit
Bizarro Stormy
Rest In Pieces
I dont.play canonist, but Thalia has been excellent for me. She is awesome vs the storm/less initial mana source combo decks. She is at least better than thorn of amethyst. But if you have any ideas, I'm always trying new things
Went 3-0 again at our weekly last night, against GWb Maverick, Grixis Delver, and Shardless BUG. Devastating Dreams is my favorite card of all time. I'll make this quick because I didn't take very good notes.
Round 1 - GWb Maverick
Game 1: T5 Devastating Dreams wrecks his board, which had a Birds of Paradise, Stoneforge Mystic, and Qasali Pridemage. I drop a Knight and he scoops.
+1 Massacre
Game 2: On the play he plays T1 Plains - Mother of Runes. I have a DD in my hand and stupidly think I need to stifle his action as soon as possible. I play DD immediately to kill his land and Mom. He proceeds to Stoneforge/Batterskull me two turns later and I have no answer.
Game 3: I draw a Massacre in my opening hand, which on T5 I cast for free to wipe his board of a Stoneforge Mystic, Dryad Arbor, and Birds of Paradise. Chalice on 1 protects my 10/10 Knight the following turn and he scoops
1-0
Round 2 - Grix Delver
Game 1: This build of Loam has a lot of must-answers (Sylvan Library, Punishing Fire, Tarmogoyf), which paved the way to two Devastating Dreams to clear his board for my Knight.
Game 2: Played through quite a few counters and cantrips to Devastate Dreams with an active HUGE Knight again and Chalice on 1.
2-0
Round 3 - Shardless BUG
Game 1: Knowing that this deck runs only 2 or 3 maindeck counters makes it easy to cast your spells in peace. My opening hand's Abrupt Decay gets Thoughtseized (instead of the Burning Wish), he plays a Goyf on T2. I play a Gaddock Teeg on T2 and a Knight on T4 and go to DD town soon after.
Game 2: He lands a Goyf and I play Maze of Ith which keeps him at bay for a while. He suspends 2 Ancestral Visions simultaneously, I can't draw a Chalice to prevent them and I die later with no answers, him with 4 lands, a Jace, and two Tarmogoyfs. Prior to the second Goyf coming down I Burnish Wished for a Dreadbore which took care of the Jace, but the second Goyf (both at 6/7) was impossible to hold off. He draws 6 cards +1 off the Visions, and my Knight gets Forced the following turn. That's that.
Game 3: I forgot to board out the Dreadbore, which I drew in my opening hand, but it's not that bad to have right away. At one point a Burning Wish gets Flusterstormed, but I later Devastate some Dreams at about Turn 6, then proceed to keep him off of lands with a medium-sized active Knight of the Reliquary grabbing Wastelands. Man, I love playing against greedy manabases
3-0
Whack lists currently playing:
Rector Nic Fit
Bizarro Stormy
Rest In Pieces
Congrats! Shardless I have found to be a very interesting MU. Goyf is definitely one of their better threats vs us unfortunately.
Thankfully we have Abrupt Decay and a great wishboard fulla hate.
Whack lists currently playing:
Rector Nic Fit
Bizarro Stormy
Rest In Pieces
This is true. I have only played vs Shardless once and I lost, though Im pretty sure I Mis played and should have won. I dont think it is a bad MU. Just kind of an awkward one.
Mana: 27
4 Mox Diamond
3 Wasteland
1 Urborg
3 Barren Moore
5 Fetches
3 Bayou
2 Badlands
1 Taiga
4 Grove of Burnwillows
1 Volrath's Stronghold
Creatures: 12
4 DRS
4 Confidant
4 YPyro
Disruption: 13
3 Raven's Crime
4 Decay
4 PFire
2 Liliana
Other: 8
2 Sylvan
3 Loam
2 Burning Wish
1 Entomb
Board:
3 Reb
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Worm Harvest
1 Entomb
1 Darkblast
1 Shattering Spree
1 Dreadbore
1 Loam
2 whatever
I'm still up in the air about the board, I think boarding goyfs in needs to be tested, but the purpose of the deck is to just dominate via card advantage with Raven's Crime/Liliana/PFire/Library (which is so hot with dredgeing)/Bob's (which don't trigger dredges). I like the MD entomb over the 3rd Wish since it's cheaper and most of your cards you want are already in the deck like loam/waste/crime/pfire/etc
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