[Primer] Elves!

[nudon]

Well, to be fair, Beck also triggers off a fetch to find Arbor or any GSZ target.

True but that is more than offset by the fact that your opponent can now counter your first elf. Not only do you fizzle, you just got 2-for-1 as well.

[Lord_of_Rivendell]

Here's what I've got main deck right now, with one slot open (yes, I know that this is not terribly original).

4 Birchlore Rangers
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Wirewood Symbiote
2 Craterhoof Behemoth

4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Natural Order

1 Forest
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
2 Dryad Arbor
8 Fetch
4 Gaea's Cradle

For the final slot, I've been testing : Natural Order, a fetchland, Multani's Acolyte, Fyndhorn Elves, or Priest of Titania. At this point I'm really struggling to decide among these choices. I'd welcome any banter on the subject.

[igri_is_a_bk]

Here's what I've got main deck right now, with one slot open (yes, I know that this is not terribly original).

4 Birchlore Rangers
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Wirewood Symbiote
2 Craterhoof Behemoth

4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Natural Order

1 Forest
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
2 Dryad Arbor
8 Fetch
4 Gaea's Cradle

For the final slot, I've been testing : Natural Order, a fetchland, Multani's Acolyte, Fyndhorn Elves, or Priest of Titania. At this point I'm really struggling to decide among these choices. I'd welcome any banter on the subject.

You're down to 12 playable first turn lands. So you're dredge, which is not where you want to be. Add another fetch. I'd cut a Birchlore for a 10th fetch too.

[Lemnear]

You're down to 12 playable first turn lands. So you're dredge, which is not where you want to be. Add another fetch. I'd cut a Birchlore for a 10th fetch too.

I can get behind that

[Julian23]

*looks at the creature configuration*
*looks at the manabase*

Something feels wrong, hm
Yep, 59 card deck.

And then I realized he also mentioned it; I was just looking at the quoted part. Definitely +2 Fetchlands -1 Birchlore. Whether you also want -2 additional Birchlores (going down to 1 MD) +2 Llanowar Elves is up for debate. Thus far I've been liking it a lot.

Also, just went back into Magic Online and 4-0'ed my first Daily without dropping a single game.

[danyul]

Seems good. Are you guys all on 20 lands now?

[Lemnear]

Seems good. Are you guys all on 20 lands now?

19 lands since ages ... I'm still a believer of the 4th NO over the 2nd Arbor

[igri_is_a_bk]

Most def on 20 lands. I haven't played a more consistent or resilient version than Nass' list with -1 Priest, -1 Regal, +1 Hoof, +1 Arbor. Viridian Shaman is not in my mb anymore because the frequency it saves me is not justified. It does allow for comebacks from Jitte and Chalice, but I'm going to take my risks with those from now on game one.

[nudon]

19 lands since ages ... I'm still a believer of the 4th NO over the 2nd Arbor

I also agree NO #4 is better than 2nd arbor. I was fine with 18 lands last time but I'm slightly greedy. :) If anything, I'd cut the 4th quirion for another fetch.

[Lord_of_Rivendell]

*looks at the creature configuration*
*looks at the manabase*

Something feels wrong, hm
Yep, 59 card deck.

And then I realized he also mentioned it; I was just looking at the quoted part. Definitely +2 Fetchlands -1 Birchlore. Whether you also want -2 additional Birchlores (going down to 1 MD) +2 Llanowar Elves is up for debate. Thus far I've been liking it a lot.

Also, just went back into Magic Online and 4-0'ed my first Daily without dropping a single game.

You must not have noticed that I was asking about the last slot:

30 critters
18 land
11 spells
1 open slot

Congrats on the 4-0--post the deck.

@all: I can get with the 19th land, I'm a bit iffy on the 20th. Last thing I typically want to draw with my Visionary or Glimpse is another land.

I used to run a couple of Llanowars/Fyndhorns, but I have found the Birchlores to be much more versatile.

Also, I can see the NO over the 2nd Dryad Arbor. But, why?

[Dice_Box]

NO let's you win the game normally or otherwise find an answer to an issue. Dryad helps you grind out longer matches. I have tried both, chose the NO option.

Sent from my mobile, forgive spelling and grammatical errors.

[Lord_of_Rivendell]

NO let's you win the game normally or otherwise find an answer to an issue. Dryad helps you grind out longer matches. I have tried both, chose the NO option.

Sent from my mobile, forgive spelling and grammatical errors.

I hear that. I find the tension to be this, for myself. You've got to have NO in hand to actually use it, so that makes the 4th seem like a great option. That said, I find the number of times that I go off a turn earlier with a Dryad Arbor not to be infrequent. Because of their versatility and synergy with other cards in the deck, they're quite useful. All that said, you typically only need one. As you've said, actually playing the 2nd one is more useful in mid-range to long games. I just keep going back and forth. When I have 2 NO in my hand, against most decks, I curse my luck. When I can't draw one, I do the same.

[Lemnear]

The point is that you want to avoid the mid- & lategame with this deck considering all the Perish, Plagues, Engineered Explosives, Terminus, Deeds, Punishing Fires and Combo decks in the meta.

According to that particular "School of Elves", speed and redundancy are king, climaxing in the 4 Birchlore 4 NO build while dismissing Tools like Ruric Thar, Viridian Shaman, Ooze, Priests, Llanowar and other cards in the MB.

[Dice_Box]

I do not think that there is any harm in picking one option over the other. Both are strong choices in the right situations. But I think the choice on Dryad #2 should be based on how often you think you would need it. Do you find yourself in games often that have you facing down counter after counter and need that uncountable, mid range help card? Do you face down endless copies of Wasteland? If so you may also need that Dryad. Do you find that the card clogs up your hand or that you really need to win faster than others around you? In that case I would go NO. There are pro's and cons for both. Run down the checklist and see what you come up with for both, then you will know.

The point is that you want to avoid the mid- & lategame with this deck considering all the Perish, Plagues, Engineered Explosives, Terminus, Deeds, Punishing Fires and Combo decks in the meta.

According to that particular "School of Elves", speed and redundancy are king, climaxing in the 4 Birchlore 4 NO build while dismissing Tools like Ruric Thar, Viridian Shaman, Ooze, Priests, Llanowar and other cards in the MB.

This I can agree with almost inertly, but sometimes you will find yourself having to plan for the worst. Again I would go the 4x NO path but some people will argue for Dryad and they can make good cases.

[Lemnear]

I'm not even sure why 4 NO and 2 Arbor shouldn't make it both in that case ...

[Dice_Box]

Well I am sure that you could run a build like that. But I find my deck to run on a tight shift, something always has to go when I want to change something and everything else in the deck has it's own place, some of them set in stone. Personally I do not think that Dryad #2 is anywhere near more useful than say, Viridian Shaman. Something I would rather run over it. It is more or less the same issue across the board, what Dryad offers is never quite enough to cut something else for.

[igri_is_a_bk]

Personally I do not think that Dryad #2 is anywhere near more useful than say, Viridian Shaman.

Viridian Shaman on an artifact is very conditional compared to Dryad Arbor because it's a land drop, which is good as long as it isn't the first turn. Beyond that, using your land drop to play Arbor is NOT a big deal unless you're up against combo. The loss in tempo from a summoning sick land is easily negated on your next turn, or it's negated by the mana dork you played the turn prior.

After you GSZ for Arbor, how do you never want to fetch a second? EOT crack my fetch for Arbor. I mean I do that that like once every match. NO clogs up my hand far more frequently than Arbor. I really want you guys to think about Elves on a priority-basis, kinda like the tiers thing we did with the creatures. NO is at the very end of our priorities because it requires the most preparation. Whereas Arbor is a land drop, which we are happy to make, and is actually priority number one! Three NO is plenty for LSV's, Reid Duke's, and Matt Nass' lists, and I personally don't find the fourth very interesting in the mb either.

[trevaftw]

Kind of an aside, but how many of you guys are bringing elves to DC? How many byes (if any) do yall have?

I'll be going and playing elves. Currently have 1 bye from points but my shop is doing a GPT this month that I can (hopefully) win.

[Kayradis]

Sorry I'm late on the topic.
18 Lands.
Tested with 19 and ended up being flooded.
20 lands, jeez.
What are we playing here? Standard?

[jarvisyu]

Kind of an aside, but how many of you guys are bringing elves to DC? How many byes (if any) do yall have?

I'll be going and playing elves. Currently have 1 bye from points but my shop is doing a GPT this month that I can (hopefully) win.

3 byes here. I might switch.