[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

[kavaki]

Ruric Thar.... hmmm....

You know, it seems pretty decent if you feel like you need a little help with combo and since im already in Red, its not like I cant cast it. At worst, ANT remooves it, and has 6 less life to use. I feel like its worth testing at the very very least.

[Tao]

Ruric Thar is unplayable. Nic Fit is 2/3 spells and is almost always behind in the damage race against fair decks so in these matchups his ability will hurt you more than your opponent. If you search for a Combo hate card, one that costs less than 6 mana would be preferable.

[HoneyT]

Ruric Thar is unplayable. Nic Fit is 2/3 spells and is almost always behind in the damage race against fair decks so in these matchups his ability will hurt you more than your opponent. If you search for a Combo hate card, one that costs less than 6 mana would be preferable.

+1

[kavaki]

1st: Ruric is a pet card, so I kinda get a little "blinded" when I see it as a "possibility".

Anyways, to provide counter-argument (and trust me, I realize how bad he is in here), do you really need to cast anything after you drop him? Against the deck you want him, he is a fast clock that gets a free hit if/when they try to remove him.

Either way, I would never run him unless I was on Elves.

[Qweerios]

1st: Ruric is a pet card, so I kinda get a little "blinded" when I see it as a "possibility".

Anyways, to provide counter-argument (and trust me, I realize how bad he is in here), do you really need to cast anything after you drop him? Against the deck you want him, he is a fast clock that gets a free hit if/when they try to remove him.

Either way, I would never run him unless I was on Elves.

By that same logic, if GSZ could get Iona, would you still play her against combo? Do you need to cast anything, let along do anything after you drop her?

[kavaki]

By that same logic, if GSZ could get Iona, would you still play her against combo? Do you need to cast anything, let along do anything after you drop her?

If it could get Iona, I personally wouldnt, just for the mere fact that 10 mana is A LOT. I only said zenith'ing Thar as he sits at the same cost as Prime Time, a card we do sometimes zenith for.

If Iona was able to be zenith'd and for cheaper than 10, then I would test it just to get an answer.

[jbone2016]

Played in a legacy IQ today. Went a very disappointed 1-3.

Beat u/r Painter's servant in 3 (Lost to the combo game one, he boarded in show + tell for emrakul, karakas says hi., he mulled to 4 third game and karakas got him again)
Lost to jund in 2. (Land flood game one, Hellbent vs lily)
Lost to Esper Blade in 2. (One of Venser did me in, both games.)
Lost to Tezzerator in 3. (punted first game, went off 3nd game, lost to tezzed creatures)

I'm starting to think the combo is just too cute. However, the wishes are awesome.
I needed better things to close out the game. Probably titans coming back. not sure what else though.

[Qweerios]

If it could get Iona, I personally wouldnt, just for the mere fact that 10 mana is A LOT. I only said zenith'ing Thar as he sits at the same cost as Prime Time, a card we do sometimes zenith for.

If Iona was able to be zenith'd and for cheaper than 10, then I would test it just to get an answer.

The principle is the same. Whether its Ruric Thar or Iona, they are both too expensive for combo matchups. The difference between Ruric Thar and Primeval Titan is glaringly obvious: one gives you immediate card advantage that translates to board presence while the other doesn't. If you can significantly cripple a combo deck with a GSZ for Teeg/Ooze, you have to compare every single alternatives to the existing ones. You don't GSZ for Prime, Thragtusk, or even Thrun in the combo matchup because their mana cost is too prohibitive (in fact you side them out whenever possible). Unless you honestly think that Ruric Thar's pros outdo his cons, which I think is the case being argued here, he isn't an object for consideration. Unfortunately, a little comparative analysis of the existing alternatives and existing dead cards of the deck quickly refute that claim.

[kavaki]

The principle is the same. Whether its Ruric Thar or Iona, they are both too expensive for combo matchups. The difference between Ruric Thar and Primeval Titan is glaringly obvious: one gives you immediate card advantage that translates to board presence while the other doesn't. If you can significantly cripple a combo deck with a GSZ for Teeg/Ooze, you have to compare every single alternatives to the existing ones. You don't GSZ for Prime, Thragtusk, or even Thrun in the combo matchup because their mana cost is too prohibitive (in fact you side them out whenever possible). Unless you honestly think that Ruric Thar's pros outdo his cons, which I think is the case being argued here, he isn't an object for consideration. Unfortunately, a little comparative analysis of the existing alternatives and existing dead cards of the deck quickly refute that claim.

To be 100% honest, I know that the cons outweigh the pros. Maybe if it only cared about opponents would I consider really testing it. But thats the land of " idiotic what if", where ideas such as, "Lets add red to High Tide for PiF," go to die.

Anyways, and this is another one of those out there thoughts, does Scape-fit have enough room for Punishing Grove? I feel like its really stretching it and trying to cram too much into one deck.

[Arianrhod]

Seems like Jeff didn't do so well at Cleveland -- I THINK he dropped at 2-3 or 2-4....not sure. I'm certain he'll chime in once he's feeling up to it (long road trips are draining). Any other Cleveland reports?

I'll likely be back on Scapewish for Jupiter this weekend (and likely the bigger events coming up in November). Despite my best efforts, Thune just isn't ready. My latest thinking on Thune is that we need to deemphasize the combo. The deck is essentially the legacy equivalent of Melira Pod. In the same way, we don't want to have a ton of bad combo pieces. Cutting down to 1 Archangel seems 100% correct. I'll post more thoughts later when I get more time to go into them more fully.

[kavaki]

@Tao: I was looking at the list/primer you have and was wondering why you don't run any Deathrites?

EDIT: Nevermind, I see where you mentioned it, although I still feel Deathrite may be too good to not run. If opponents drop removal on it, it means one less removal for our bigger guys.

[Kich867]

@Tao: I was looking at the list/primer you have and was wondering why you don't run any Deathrites?

EDIT: Nevermind, I see where you mentioned it, although I still feel Deathrite may be too good to not run. If opponents drop removal on it, it means one less removal for our bigger guys.

The only removal in the format that hits bigger guys is Swords to Plowshares, which means they're in white and either control or midrange, which by extension means this deck likely shits on them. The tendency for the deck to not run many small creatures is due to it's ramp and often reliance on abusing Pernicious Deed. Deeds will kill any of the smaller creatures, something that isn't too desirable.

[kavaki]

The only removal in the format that hits bigger guys is Swords to Plowshares, which means they're in white and either control or midrange, which by extension means this deck likely shits on them. The tendency for the deck to not run many small creatures is due to it's ramp and often reliance on abusing Pernicious Deed. Deeds will kill any of the smaller creatures, something that isn't too desirable.

I know, but in his reasoning for not running it, he said that it dies to removal 3/4 of the time. Im going the next logical step and saying that if an opponent wastes removal on it, its one less for our bigger guys.

[Kich867]

I know, but in his reasoning for not running it, he said that it dies to removal 3/4 of the time. Im going the next logical step and saying that if an opponent wastes removal on it, its one less for our bigger guys.

I think the next logical step is looking at it in the context of the deck, death rite shaman may be alright as a one of, but in the grand scheme of things you don't want any permanents in the deck that should stick around under 4 cmc. Pernicious deed is simply too strong, and death rites will die from them frequently. I used him as a one of in straight gb nic fit for awhile and it seemed fine as a main deck hate card, but I often killed him with a deed pretty quickly.

[Punksterbass]

Hey, long time reader, first time poster here.

I'm preparing my list for a National Legacy Qualifier here in Brazil, this is what I got so far:



Lands (24)

2 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Mountain

Creatures (11)

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Blitz Hellion
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
1 Primeval Titan
1 Thragtusk
1 Huntmaster of the Fells

Artifacts (2)

2 Sensei's Divining Top

Enchantments (3)

3 Pernicious Deed

Sorceries (12)

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Duress
2 Maelstrom Pulse

Instants (7)

3 Abrupt Decay
4 Punishing Fire


Sideboard (15)

2 Slaughter Games
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Extirpate
1 Duress
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Ashen Rider

[Star|Scream]

Needs MOAR top

[kavaki]

I really do not like Blitz Hellion. You pay 5 mana (6 if you want to zenith) for essentially a Ball Lightning that gets shuffled away at EoT. At least with Ball, you could twin towers it back.

I'd personally cut it for another top. 3 tops means you see an average of 1 per game, which is what you want.

I also assume Thoughtsieze is out of your price range/none are available around you. If you have them, or you can get them, I'd insta-switch the duress' for them.

[Tao]

If opponents drop removal on it, it means one less removal for our bigger guys.

That is a fallacy. No removal trades 1 for 1 with the bigger guys because of their CiP abilities. They get half a card at best. So if they can use a removal as a 1 for 1, that is bad for you.

@Punksterbass: Liliana has been good for most people here. I think Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize are both better than Duress. Also I like to play more Tops.

[jbone2016]

Needs MOAR top

Needs a 60th card. So Top is probably it.
Or another threat?

[Ayotte]

Who's going to Milwaukee?

I won't be playing Nic Fit - I stopped playing it since SCG MSP so I'm out of practice, but it would still be cool to see y'all there.