[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)

[Dark Ritual]

We have xantid swarm in our sideboard here due to abrupt decay or at least I pack 4 copies currently. Sure we don't have silence but 5 color is stupid with a fetch dual manabase w/out city of brass and gemstone mine. Also, let's say they force our chain of vapor on their leyline. What exactly stops us from going off the next turn with ad nauseam and/or PiF to draw into another chain of vapor, bounce it, then tendrils them out? If they have double counter backup as well as leyline their hand is going to get wrecked in the process giving us time to rebuild to go off again.

The odds of them having leyline + FoW is very low. They can't always have it at all unless you're just getting lucksacked out, and we've all been there before.

Diminishing returns has almost no advantages over time spiral in a wishboard in ANT. We will generally have 2+ lands out by the time we cast returns as we are not casting it turn 1. Exiling 10 cards is pretty bad as well as not running chrome mox to facilitate us going off post dreturns with more consistency. And when time spiral has 3 lands in play it becomes timetwister that exiles itself as well as floating 3 of different colors essentially, which is pretty damn good.

The only reason this deck is called ANT is because that's what people started calling it several years ago when ad nauseam was first introduced into the deck and people saw how good it was. It isn't the name that matters. People know what you're talking about when you say ANT. If you say flaming vault they raise eyebrows. Storm in flames would do the same. Ideally the deck would be named after some cereal like combo decks of old (golden grahamans, fruity pebbles, trix, etc. etc.) but unfortunately that isn't happening.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

The only reason this deck is called ANT is because that's what people started calling it several years ago when ad nauseam was first introduced into the deck and people saw how good it was. It isn't the name that matters.

None of my opponents/friends/bystanders had any trouble realizing what deck do I talk about when I was using the name ANT. Heck, even the more-EDH-than-Legacy guys did knew that the deck's namesake is tertiary engine. Name doesn't matter.

[Sloshthedark]

You draw for the turn, and have the following hand.

Polluted Delta
Lotus Petal
Lion's Eye Diamond
Dark Ritual
Dark Ritual
Duress
Infernal Tutor
Brainstorm

you obviously go for it starting with BS

[Dia_Bot]

Why on earth would you want to change the decks name when 98.4 % of the deck remains the same. The reason a deck has a name is so it can easily be identified and catagorized by people.

[festeringGAB]

Hi, there is a guide for side-in side-out that I can read?

thanks :)

[Secretly.A.Bee]

So I've been looking into Intuition as another "storm" generator. I think it pairs nicely with PiF combo. Grab PiF, 2 Rituals, this nets you 3 ritual effects as they won't normally give you the PiF obviously. costing 3 is my only concern. It won't grab you the thing you need the most unless you are already grabbing PiF plus what you are needing, but I find often that looking for 3x LED is a good play, especially EOT on Opponent's turn. I know it's almost like it's competing for slots with LDV, but I think it may fulfil a need that LDV won't, and that is card in hand, + cards in 'yard for combo. Thoughts (Also, there are Leyline issues)?

-ABC

[Dzra]

So I've been looking into Intuition as another "storm" generator. I think it pairs nicely with PiF combo. Grab PiF, 2 Rituals, this nets you 3 ritual effects as they won't normally give you the PiF obviously. costing 3 is my only concern. It won't grab you the thing you need the most unless you are already grabbing PiF plus what you are needing, but I find often that looking for 3x LED is a good play, especially EOT on Opponent's turn. I know it's almost like it's competing for slots with LDV, but I think it may fulfil a need that LDV won't, and that is card in hand, + cards in 'yard for combo. Thoughts (Also, there are Leyline issues)?

Intuition actually strikes me as interesting. I'm not really sure it's needed, but I could see it potentially competing with Grim Tutor. Grabbing 2 Dark Rituals and a PiF seems really strong, but I suppose I'd have to think more about it. (And yes, Leyline of Sanctity blocks Intuition)

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Intuition is poor man's Grim Tutor similarly to how LDV is poor man's Demonic Tutor. And as we all know how amazing is LDV, this says a lot about Intuition...
The only trouble (and also the only reason why I never tried it although I got a Jap. one) is that three mana in a Wasteland.format is quite a lot, esp. if they have DRS out. It also loses part of its strength postboard, when you need to fight all kinds of Pyroblasts, RiP, Thalia, Cage, Extraction, Leyline, etc.
I'd be interested in anyone's testing results!

[ThomasDowd]

I'm glad you guys like arguing about the name so much, it sure doesn't take up any space.

also you are still killing via tendrils/ goblins most of the time.

never understood why each deck with a differnet card had ot have a differnet name when they all win the same general way

I just call the deck I play storm and leave it at that.

pretty fucking easy.

[Patrunkenphat7]

I guess you could also call your RUG Delver deck "Blue Tempo" and leave it at that.

This is The Source Legacy forums. If there were ever a place to talk about things like what to name a Storm variant, it's here.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I just called the deck I played storm and left it at that. It was amazing to watch the people's reaction, as one third of them was pretty annoyed that I'm lazy to specify, the other third was intimidated because they've thought I'm so skilled that I don't even need to care about the kind of storm I played, the remaining third didn't even notice.

I realize ppl tend to use Swarms against my RUG, is it because the mind games "you must keep your bolts in, but they're bad", or is it just a new fashion? I find it... strange. Not bad, but strange.

[Patrunkenphat7]

I just called the deck I played storm and left it at that. It was amazing to watch the people's reaction, as one third of them was pretty annoyed that I'm lazy to specify, the other third was intimidated because they've thought I'm so skilled that I don't even need to care about the kind of storm I played, the remaining third didn't even notice.

I realize ppl tend to use Swarms against my RUG, is it because the mind games "you must keep your bolts in, but they're bad", or is it just a new fashion? I find it... strange. Not bad, but strange.

Boarding in and fetching a Trop against RUG is very bad, and keeping their Bolts live as essential counterspells is awful. They probably won't have 6+ cards to board in, so they will likely be stuck with some Bolts regardless of whether or not you board in Swarms. Boarding in Swarms makes their Wastelands and Bolts great cards, and those cards are otherwise pretty irrelevant.

That said, I love Swarms in the side for Show and Tell decks; just don't bring them in against Delver tempo...

[Sloshthedark]

Intuition is not good enough, biggest problems - it's off color and too expensive in your combo turn, do not tutor ToA directly... It's great in UR/W storm, full of redundant cards not Ant

Boarding in and fetching a Trop against RUG is very bad, and keeping their Bolts live as essential counterspells is awful. They probably won't have 6+ cards to board in, so they will likely be stuck with some Bolts regardless of whether or not you board in Swarms. Boarding in Swarms makes their Wastelands and Bolts great cards, and those cards are otherwise pretty irrelevant.

That said, I love Swarms in the side for Show and Tell decks; just don't bring them in against Delver tempo...

I disagree, fetching basics doctrine is wrong, Thresh guys board out some bolts usually, which is also wrong but they do, still it's Fow or die if they don't have it, and buys you a turn if they do + swarm just fot therapy flashback if completely fine if you know about the bolt; reality - they overestimate their aggro-control role board in flusterstorms pyroblasts and gravehate and die to it :)

[paeng4983]

Thresh guys board out some bolts usually ...

A well experience RUG player will not take out all of his lightning bolt against an AnT or TES, for it is their only removal for our BUG if it isn't countered.

[nevilshute]

Boarding in and fetching a Trop against RUG is very bad, and keeping their Bolts live as essential counterspells is awful. They probably won't have 6+ cards to board in, so they will likely be stuck with some Bolts regardless of whether or not you board in Swarms. Boarding in Swarms makes their Wastelands and Bolts great cards, and those cards are otherwise pretty irrelevant.

That said, I love Swarms in the side for Show and Tell decks; just don't bring them in against Delver tempo...

I like Swarms against most decks with Islands tbh. I'd agree that against Tempo decks they aren't as good as they are against something like mono blue omni or perhaps something like miracles. The thing is they can still be an absolute bomb. I'm continuously surprised at how many tempo players are caught off guard by the little insect. They sit there with their boarded in Flusterstorm and 2x Spell Pierce in hand and start to feel that cold sweat when they see the swarm :) But sure, if they know what they're doing they won't board out all (if any) of their bolts and that's a real issue.

The way I see it I have room for 2-3 dedicated Island-fighting sideboard slots. I play Burning Wish ANT so my sideboard has natural limits. Those 2-3 slots I like to fill with either Xantid Swarm or Carpet of Flowers. I need to have a chance to consistently see them if I board them in, hence I have to choose between which card to run and which to leave out. Can't have a mix. Seeing how there is a lot of mono blue omni in my local meta, and how I consider swarm to be massively outclassing carpet in that matchup, as well as being decent-to-very-good against Tempo decks I'm going with swarms for now. If the meta shifts I'll adjust.

[Dzra]

A well experience RUG player will not take out all of his lightning bolt against an AnT or TES, for it is their only removal for our BUG if it isn't countered.

They'll probably still have 2-3 Bolts, but I doubt it'll be because Bolt is that good. Tormod's Crypt, Flusterstorm, and Pyroblast are all pretty good against ANT and usually run as a 2-ofs. Occasionally they'll run a Clique which is really solid. Forked Bolt is easily bad and can come out. Nimble Mongoose is pretty slow, so they'd have to decide if they'd rather cut some Gooses or Bolts. I thought the prevailing wisdom was that ANT shouldn't be boarding Swarms in against Tempo anyways?

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I disagree, fetching basics doctrine is wrong, Thresh guys board out some bolts usually, which is also wrong but they do, still it's Fow or die if they don't have it, and buys you a turn if they do + swarm just fot therapy flashback if completely fine if you know about the bolt; reality - they overestimate their aggro-control role board in flusterstorms pyroblasts and gravehate and die to it :)

That's pretty true, remember my R2 against Mat yesterday. Man, it's so annoying, I can't defeat the guy for the life of me. Funny how he ended at two life and then started the combo...
Also, I think he's the one that doesn't even bother sideboarding against Thresh Can, as I never seen any Carpet or w/e, imho he just adds one discard and is done with it.

[Mindlash]

That's pretty true, remember my R2 against Mat yesterday. Man, it's so annoying, I can't defeat the guy for the life of me. Funny how he ended at two life and then started the combo...
Also, I think he's the one that doesn't even bother sideboarding against Thresh Can, as I never seen any Carpet or w/e, imho he just adds one discard and is done with it.

That is at least the plan with TES. Shifting an Infernal Tutor with Cabal Therapy, making Tutor wishable.

I do not like Swarms against Tempo and on average it will be bad.

Carpet of Flowers will be good in the matchup but I think the Swarms are more needed in this Meta due to SnT Variants...so in Ant I either board in the 8th discard or the Grinding Station Config (+2 Tendrils +1 PiF and some Carpets -Shavecut), depenidng on my current SB :)

I guess this Matchup will be bad for ANT while learning...but becomes even as both become used to their decks.

[Patrunkenphat7]

Intuition is not good enough, biggest problems - it's off color and too expensive in your combo turn, do not tutor ToA directly... It's great in UR/W storm, full of redundant cards not Ant



I disagree, fetching basics doctrine is wrong, Thresh guys board out some bolts usually, which is also wrong but they do, still it's Fow or die if they don't have it, and buys you a turn if they do + swarm just fot therapy flashback if completely fine if you know about the bolt; reality - they overestimate their aggro-control role board in flusterstorms pyroblasts and gravehate and die to it :)

I'm not sure what the "fetching basics doctrine" is, but I can't possibly see why you should fetch nonbasics against RUG Delver... The games I lose are usually because of their mana denial. I'm 9-1 against RUG with ANT in sanctioned tournaments, and my only SBing is a single Inquisition of Kozilek, and I almost ALWAYS fetch basics against them. IMO RUG Delver is a very good matchup for this Storm deck if you are not relying on Ad Nauseam to win.

@Dzra: Yes, the mainstream thought is that Xantid Swarms are not that impressive against tempo decks like RUG Delver.

[BrettF]

Initially testing against Postboard OmniTell i was losing 2-7. I re-read Carsten's article a couple times, and then goldfished for a while trying to win by turn 4 if my "opponent" started with a leyline in play and a force in their hand. Back at the testing table a week later i was able to turn it around 7-2 in my favour.

-3 Duress
-1 Island
-1 Preordain
-1 Gitaxian Probe
+3 Xantid Swarm
+3 Chain of Vapor

I like to cut the duress and leave in the therapies. This way if you draw your xantid a turn late it could still be useful to flashback. Also, duress with an untargetable opponent is bad news for trying to get hellbent; You can therapy yourself.

Maindeck:
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Preordain
3 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic island
1 Tropical Island
SB:
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Chain of Vapor
3 Xantid Swarm
3 Dread of Night
2 Pithing Needle
1 Empty The Warrens

Delver Note:
Against RUG i just swap Ad Nauseam for Empty The Warrens. The maindeck is close to optimal to play that matchup, never wanted to take up sideboard space for carpets.