Really? Than it's not a surprise that you won =)Originally Posted by Jeff
Nothing is true, everything is permitted...
Lol
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I sat next to someone at the seattle scg who died from 20, 19, and 18 with ad nauseam on the day there may have been more. I cast it I think once on the day, I was maindecking it again but I typically hate the card, but understand that sometimes it is needed for the early wins.
I may cut it again, but at the same time want to add maybe a chrome mox or two to the board to make it better. Having to flip with no floating and no land drop and having to hit one of 3 petals, two rituals, LED, tutor is kind of rough sometimes, mainly the IMS. I feel much better about AN when I haven't used any petals and have a land drop floating
Played the burning wish list from a little bit above. Really liked it I tweaked the sideboard a bit and want to do some more tweaking. But it felt really good, meltdown'd away two mox diamonds and a chalice in a G1, that felt dumb. Also definitely used IGG at least 3 times on the day. once there was no other path, the other times were probably ok to do something else but this worked the best. also a great swap for AN in the burn match up.
For the burning wish versions teferi's realm may be too slow but a decent on color answer to CB. 3 mana is a ton though and by then they have probably found a counter spell for it or can set up a floating force via top (after you bounce the CB), also gives them a turn to set all of this up.
For me Burning Wish is more of a crutch than anything else. I know the deck might be better without it, but I just can't let it go. I can't stand thinking I could just lose to T1 Shaman, T2 Seize my Tendrils and remove it. And Empty the Warrens has won me too many game too.
I do admit I like to get a bit cute on the Wishboard, I used to play even a freakin' Ill-Gotten Gains. I even tried out playing a Reforge the Soul, for the draw 7 effect without the shuffle. But the mana cost is just to strict.
I have a big tournament on Nov 15, and I'm just defaulting to the Burning Wish list. Anyone got any suggestions for the Wishboard?
Has anyone tested Entomb as a 1/2 of for use as a Tutor for PiF, and afterwards a Tutor to grab an instant/sorcery to play from the 'yard? I think it should at least be looked at. Maybe it's too dangerous with all the gy hate, but I was thinking about this last night and thought that maybe it should be tested. It's pretty solid in theory.
-ABC
This is what can be wished for in my SB. It's possible that Virtue's Ruin will be replaced by that new commander thing.
SB: 1 Duress
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Massacre
SB: 1 Meltdown
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Reverent Silence
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Virtue's Ruin
I tested Entomb once. I don't think it works how you think it does though. When you flashback Entomb, the 2nd card you find can't be cast, so it essentially is irrelevant to flashback except for corner cases of getting Therapy with goblins in play.
why not play infest over the new commander thing kills almost everything you want with no life spent and costs the same. i cannot think of any x/3's you want to kill.
Yeah that's a fair point. I feel like there must have been a reason I was running Virtue's Ruin over Infest, but nothing is coming to mind at the moment.
KotR and any Sword of This and That equipping Teeg.
Believe it or not, that was totally unintentional. Brain fart :)
Played at a small tournament last night, took the list from the GPT, moved Ad Nauseam to the board in place of the 3rd Carpet of Flowers, then put Empty the Warrens main. In my extremely limited testing, Empty was freaking horrible. Anytime I was behind and Ad Nauseam would've been bad, Empty was worse because all of the aggressive deck have fliers, so Empty can't block them to save me. I almost lost to affinity because I ended up with a hand that was all rituals and Empty while I was still at like 16, and Ad Naus would've been way better. I played against Sneak and Show, Affinity, Lands, and UWR Delver and sided it out almost every matchup (I may have left it in vs Sneak and Show, don't remember). In the matchups where they're most likely to have Leyline, Empty is the worst kill spell because they can just race it when you're not playing it turn 1 like TES.
I do think I want an Empty in the board for Surgical Extraction decks maybe, but even then I've been playing this for almost 6 months and I've only had Tendrils extracted or Deathrited like twice. Sure, it can happen, but it's not nearly actually all that likely.
I actually agree and disagree with Jeff. I don't think taking Ad Nauseam out of the deck is that great. It frustrates me when people refer to it as a "crutch". That is just not true. What it is, is just another option, another line of play.. Like Jeff was saying, There are situations where AN is just hands down the best line available. Now, that being said, i do think there are times where EtW is just awesome. Which is one of the reason i enjoy playing Burning Wish in my deck.
I'm also surprised you were siding out EtW against UWR. I guess if they're packing a bunch of EE it can be sketchy, and Batterskull is not very friendly either. But i actually think EtW is amazing against those types of decks. It lets you go off without needing as much gas, so you can take advantage of your opponent lacking an answer or being tapped down much easier. A top decked or Brainstormed EE will probably make me cry though. What is everyone else's strategy for UWR? There are a few UWR variations running around our locals, and it's never an easy match.
Also, i'm not sure EtW is in the board to beat extraction. I mean yeah, that's one thing it can do, but i really like EtW against tempo decks. There are 2 UR Delvers in our local meta and EtW is an all-star against it. Against RUG and similar decks, a quick EtW is just nasty. I feel like i find myself siding it in a lot.
@alderon666
I only run 2 maindecked Wishes with 2 Preordain as extra cantrips.
My wish board is currently looking like this
2 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Pyroclasm
1 Massacre
1 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
The 2nd EtW is the newest thing i have been trying and i actually love it. What that lets me do is bring in an Empty and still have one in the board to wish for. The extra discard is because i'm not running G right now. There haven't been any counterbalance around for a while here, so i figure the G splash is just unnecessary. Sometimes i do want extra disruption to bring in though, and without Xantid Swarms, Thoughtseize seems to fit the bill. Again the extra discard lets me side 2 in, and still have 1 in the board to wish for.
I must be missing something, I guess. If you're at a high enough life against RUG that you can afford to make 10 or 14 goblins and wait two more turns to finish them off, when they have burn and Delvers that can go over the top, aren't you usually at a high enough life to just Ad Nauseam?
Empty is normally a turn 1/2 play. It only costs 4 mana from hand and 6 from Wish, you normally go all-in on turn 1 or play a discard first and then do it the next turn.
It's good if you know you're not facing Batterskull.
I'll probably go for something like this:
SB: 1 Duress
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Massacre
SB: 1 Meltdown
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
I won't have a green splash, probably just gonna conceed to a resolved CB and leave it at that.
The reason to go for Toxic Deluge instead of Infest is obviously to kill Emrakul by paying 15 life... duh!
Why can't you cast the second card you find? That makes no sense to me.
-ABC
Oh snap, i haven't seen Toxic Deluge yet. I'm not exactly sure it's that great though. You could easily get away with Virtue's Ruin and not pay any life. Honestly though i like Pyroclasm the best as a wishable sweeper. It can't beat Mom and a hatebear but it is the cheapest option. I find it a lot easier to play Pyroclasm and then combo off, than any of the other options. With Thalia your looking at paying 4 mana for a sweeper. That's steep.
Is Meltdown really worth it? I play it in my DDFT sideboard but i'm not sure it's really necessary here. Although if you have Affinity or some MUD in your meta i guess you could put up an argument for it.
You don't have to just scoop to CB. I'm playing 2-3 Wipe Away in the board, just in case i do run into it. It's crude but an EOT Wipe Away will do the trick.
Past in Flames only gives the cards currently in your grave flashback. So any card put in after PiF resolves wont have flashback.
Possibly not. It's mainly there for Chalice, which can be played around or Abrupt Decay'd. It can possibly hit Revoker also (out of a non-W deck) since I don't run Pyroclasm. I mostly just don't like SBing a lot with this deck and outside of the obligatory 3 Abrupt Decay and 3 Xantid Swarm, I usually find that I have plenty of extra space for situational tutor targets.
AlleywayJack answered it above; PiF only give flashback to card in the GY at the time it resolves.
Empty is sick because it provides speed for a relatively "slow" combo deck. Turn 1 10+goblins or turn 2 12+ goblins is a more consistent kill than turn 2 AN often with no mana floating. I could spend all day listing the corner cases where you want a win-con other than tendrils and goblin synergies like Therapy, but the real reason it's good is that it gives you a truly fast line of action because your opponent can hit you with a Thoughtseize or set up their threat with a slew of soft counters.
Really wish there was a way to make a Doomsday line good in Wish ANT. Any Wish players ever tried it?
Top 4'd my local with this list. Went 3-1, beating Dark Maverick, RUG, and Merfolk while losing to Jund (!).
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
2 Preordain
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
4 Infernal Tutor
3 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Past in Flames
1 Ad Nauseam
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Island
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
2 Gemstone Mine
Sideboard
2 Chain of Vapor
3 Xantid Swarm
3 Carpet of Flowers
3 Dread of Night
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Tropical Island
The Jund loss came down to killing myself with Ad Nauseam game 2 (from fifteen with a land drop, sometimes you just get unlucky) and getting a slow hand that got blown out by Extirpate on Infernal Tutor in game 3. I have done extensive testing against this matchup and found it to be strongly favorable pre and post-board, but sometimes you just lose regardless. I didn't drop a game in any of the other matches. The deck feels really solid, as always LDV and Preordain are the weak links but since I lack Grim Tutors I don't have anything to replace them with. As this deck is a little slow I might test SDT in place of Preordain sometime. I cut Empty the Warrens from the board because I never actually boarded it in, and never really wanted it in any matchup. If I add it back in I may just move the Tropical to the maindeck to make room - the sideboard is very strong currently.
I haven't tried it, but now that we're playing Gitaxian Probe, all you would have to do is drop some other cantrip for SDT and cut a random card for Ideas Unbound.
Lord of the Chalice
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