[Deck] Dredge

[HardBrain]

Ok so build with Flayer are best now?...only 1 dread and 1 flayer? anyone have list preapred for next BOM?

[Dice_Box]

I personally feel like the most Dread Returns that's should be main is one. It should only be there if you run out of sideboard space. This is because your going to win 7 out of 10 first games with a blowout anyway. Why dilute the consistency of the deck for a cool combo out.

Combo outs are a game two thing. Where if your against someone that is majorly limiting your options and you just need to race, you run it. Like if your against Miracles, you want Iona down as fast as you can get her down. (That is if your going to DR over bringing in your hare combat.)

Sent from my mobile, forgive spelling and grammatical errors.

[Vlad Teppes]

I personally feel like the most Dread Returns that's should be main is one. It should only be there if you run out of sideboard space. This is because your going to win 7 out of 10 first games with a blowout anyway. Why dilute the consistency of the deck for a cool combo out.

Combo outs are a game two thing. Where if your against someone that is majorly limiting your options and you just need to race, you run it. Like if your against Miracles, you want Iona down as fast as you can get her down. (That is if your going to DR over bringing in your hare combat.)

Sent from my mobile, forgive spelling and grammatical errors.

You said everything, when ppl scoop when you cast the first breaktrough with a LED on the field, why handicaping yourself with 3 winmore cards (2 DR and a target), run just 1 if you feel that u REALLY need it and put 1 or 2 more in the sideboard when you know that a match will go longer or that you need the DR target to win ( Iona, Elesh and ashen rider)

[JPoJohnson]

What's the reasoning of running Putrid Imp over Tireless Tribe? I feel like Tribe has more resilience and long game value, but no one runs it. I'm missing something.

[Dice_Box]

Ichorid flashback cost calls for a black creature. Imp fits the bill.

Sent from my mobile, forgive spelling and grammatical errors.

[Vlad Teppes]

What's the reasoning of running Putrid Imp over Tireless Tribe? I feel like Tribe has more resilience and long game value, but no one runs it. I'm missing something.

Imp is a black creature, so it counts for Ichorid ressurection, plus he's harder to block than tribe

[Juicy Karaage]

Just played in a 42 people event for 6 rounds and went to Top 4

4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Undiscovered Paradise
4 Bridge from Below
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Careful Study
4 Faithless Looting
4 Breakthrough
4 Putrid Imp
4 Golgari Grave Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
2 Golgari Thug
1 Darkblast
1 Dread Return
4 Narcomoeba
3 Ichorid
4 Cabal Therapy

Sideboard
1 Dread Return
1 Elesh Norn
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Ashen Rider
4 Nature's Claim
4 Firestorm
3 Nether Shadow

Round 1 vs RUG 2-0
I won the dice roll and casted too many draw spells for him to handle, boarded in the Nether Shadows, Firestorm, a Dread Return and Ashen Rider for G2. Draw, Discard, Dredge into 4 Bridges and an Ichorid.

Round 2 vs RUG 2-0
My opponent was a friend who planned on leaving later, so he gave me the win. He still handed me my ass in that practice game.

Round 3 vs Elves 0-2
We both mulled to 6, i had a shitty hand with Gemstone Mine, Cephalid Coliseum and a Dark Blast. I kept Darkblasting everything till the mine ran out of counters, not surprisingly, i got stomped. I kept a Firestorm, City of Brass, Cephalid, and a Golgari Gravetroll. I Firestorm'd a bunch of Elves and Deathrite Shaman, throwing away the Troll which he Surgical Extraction'd that costed me the match.

Round 4 vs Elves 2-1
Well, you can pretty much guess that the Meta here is filled with Green. T1 Putrid Imp, T2 Discard 2 Stinkweed Imp the Breakthrough. In G2, i kept a slow hand for no logical reason. He GSZ for Scavenging Ooze and i scooped. G3 i kept a hand with Firestorm, Looting, Breakthrough, LED and no Dredgers. Looting into more draw spells with still no Dredger in sight. Drew into a Bridge, Narcomoeba and Cabal Therapy while my opponent builds his Elf army slowly. He finally lands a Deathrite Shaman which warranted me to use Firestorm. Still no Dredgers. Since i practically had no land and was bound to lose anyway, i casted the Breakthrough for 1 hoping to hit a Dredger and another draw spell. I did. Discarded Troll and casted another Breakthrough to dig out Elesh Norn and the remaining Narcomoebas

Round 5 vs TES 2-0
T1 Looting, T2 Breakthrough. G2, i had mulled to 5 with a hand of City of Brass, Putrid Imp, Putrid Imp, Stinkweed Imp, Stinkweed Imp, Breakthrough. He T1 Duress'd my draw spell. Top deck'd a Cephalid and dredged out Iona with 3 Narcomoeba.

Round 6 vs Maverick ID

Quarter Finals vs Elves 2-0
Yeah, my 3rd Elves opponent for the day. I mull to 5 with Cephalid, 2 Dredgers and a LED. Since i though i was losing anyway, i decided to play risky by just hoping to draw into a blue draw spell. Breakthrough saved the day. G2 i drew my Godhand. 2 LED, Breakthrough, City of Brass, Stinkweed Imp. Elesh Norn on T1

We split the Top 4 prizes since the weather did a number on most of the attendees' health, including my own

[Vlad Teppes]

I'm going to be in a big tour this weekend, it's the bigger I've ever been, and I'm asking you guys who do you think is the better DR target in a neutral meta? Iona, elesh norn or Ashen rider? I don't know what I gonna face there and I need a reliable target in my sideboard

[raikenxy]

I'm going to be in a big tour this weekend, it's the bigger I've ever been, and I'm asking you guys who do you think is the better DR target in a neutral meta? Iona, elesh norn or Ashen rider? I don't know what I gonna face there and I need a reliable target in my sideboard

Elesh Norn has greater application as it can be used in many of the same games you'd bring in iona. Iona shines against omnitell and burn mostly, but other monocolored decks in the format rely on aether vial to cheat creatures into play so elesh norn is simply better in my opinion from that standpoint. you already are pretty much guaranteed a win versus omnitell as you're one of they're worst matchups even without iona. ashen rider is cute but honestly i see it's main use in taking out problem permanents that prevent you from attacking for the win, and honestly if that was the case i would say run flayer in the side instead as he eschews the combat step. nuetral meta i would prolly run flayer and elesh in the side. my personal preference is flayer, but elesh would be my second choice

[Que]

I'm going to be in a big tour this weekend, it's the bigger I've ever been, and I'm asking you guys who do you think is the better DR target in a neutral meta? Iona, elesh norn or Ashen rider? I don't know what I gonna face there and I need a reliable target in my sideboard

I would suggest Iona 1st before either of the other 2. SBing in Iona gives you an extra win con against decks like Storm, Elves, and Mono U Show & Tell among others. I believe it to be the most well rounded DR target in an unknown meta. I like Ashen Rider as well as it takes care of any problematic permanents such as Elephant Grass (and other propaganda type effects), Ensnaring Bridge, Dueling Grounds, Peackeeper, and a slew of other cards. Regardless if the aforementioned don't see as much play having the ability to have an out to such cards is a nice feeling.

EDIT: Or Flayer Lol. However, I don't like the idea of having to need 2 DR to have the kill.

[HammafistRoob]

The only matchups where I would want Elesh are the mirror and elves. Iona is just about as good against elves, and as Que mentioned, gives you another 'wincon' against other combo decks.

Tl;dr- Iona is the only target imo.

[Vlad Teppes]

Im my local meta, Elesh pretty much wins all by herself, I don't face too much combo decks unless I play online (MWS)
I think I gonna put Iona, as you guys said it is the most well rounded target.
thz for the feedback!

[ragamuffinvb]

Elesh Norn is an auto win versus every creature deck, monocolored or not. Merfolk, elves, deadguy ale, temp decks, goblins, death and taxes, affinity, maverick, and even has some use against BUG. the only creature that doesn't die to her is goyf, buy one, two, or three goyfs arent going to do anything when you have 9 4/4 chump blockers. If the meta is unknown i would expect it to be more creatured base then combo based as the legacy meta has been shifting more and more toward creature decks since RTR.

Iona has her moments against combo decks, but T.E.S can win around her, ANT and and OMNITELL have their issues with her. But your actually faster then hoth of those decks, cabal therapy does the work for you here and the zombies you get should just be able to clock them before they kill you.

I personally run Flayer. Not needing to rely on the combat step is pretty useful, and you really only need one DR to keep him going. Even if you only return him once, they're hand is prolly going to be empty as you've used cabal therapy to clear it of creature removal or anything business like, your ichorids when they come back attack for six. 9 damage from flayer himself off the initial return and sac, and bringing two ichorids back and attacking with them is another 12 damage, outside of blocks lol. very situational and obviously depending on board states, but i think flayer is the best.

[Dice_Box]

I don't know about you, but I tend to have more creatures than the other guy does, much faster than he does. Cutting off a colour is a great way to attack what can be played and the 2/2's can mop up after.

[HammafistRoob]

That's exactly what I meant. If you're having trouble with creatures strategies then perhaps you should revisit your mulligan strategy. Sure there are a few times where Elesh is useful, but in those matchups you need to be bringing in anti-hate as well. Iona is great because the matches where you want her, you don't need to bring in anti-hate. Over sideboarding is very dangerous with this deck as you can just ruin your own deck.

[Vlad Teppes]

I imagine I'm going to face a good portion of aggro and control there, but I don't know for sure, I only board Elesh against tribal and sometimes BUG or shardless (very rare) and I still have 3 firestorms im my SB should I need something against creatures.

I will give Iona a try this time.

[Bardu]

What is better off of the sideboard, Ashen Ghoul or Nether Shadow?

[meffeo]

Ashen ghoul needs mana, something that usually lacks in dredge.

Nether shadow needs at least 3 creatures above it, but since the dredged cards go in the gy at the same time, you decide the order so it's possible that he has something above it.

[Holly]

In my opinion it depends on your deck.
If you play with minimal lands, you might give the edge to Nether Shadow.
Another point pro Shadow would be if you're playing a DR paket and only really need the bodies to sacrifie.

On the other hand if you're playing Quadlaser-like (maybe even some lands more mainboard) you might want to give the edge to the power 3 beater in case your Ichorids get extracted.

[Dice_Box]

Thing is, what happens if the only mana you have is a Gemstone? Then you need it to fire off a draw spell, maybe a Coliseum and then you have one shot left with it. If you draw a Coliseum and use it to fire off a draw spell then your just a boned. That's 8 of our 12-14 mana so its not like these are unlikely situations when we are talking about more than half our mana base.