[Deck] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

[MethadronGer]

Merfolk won't put more than two counter on their vial. Maybe just add one REB more to the board. I'm not really afraid of TNN at the moment

[Barbed Blightning]

Merfolk is just one deck though. People belaboured over how Deathrite and RIP were going to kill RUG and look: still going strong. I doubt that one card alone will kill this deck.

Something more problematic would be blade decks picking him up, or other tempo decks. We could always run more REBs or TNNs of our own; time will only tell if this guy accumulates popularity.

However, it's folly to think Fish wouldn't tick their vial up to 3 to flash is a trump card vs us

[trollking21]

With all this talk of TNN has anyone thought of changin our testier base to
4 delver
4 Deathrite
2 TNN
2 goyf
Or even a full 4 TNN it enables us not to be neutered by graveyard hate and have a reliable way to close out the game much the same way that mongoose does but better.
Or is my theory crafting flawed?
I do think that TNN is not doable in RUG without deathrite

[MethadronGer]

I don't like this idea. Mongoose costs 1 TNN costs 3. What do you do when your DRS gets blasted or you don't have lands in your GY? That's the point of Mongoose and Goofy they don't need lands in GY.

[Purgatory]

I think running 2 TNN might be possible even without Shaman, Thresh has had CMC 3 spells before (Clique, Rushing River etc.).

I'm gonna go ahead and grab one or two and test them, maybe with a 19th land.

[lordofthepit]

True-Name Nemesis should be compared to a one-sided blue Sulfuric Vortex that also blocks like a champ in aggressive matchups. Sure, it has some vulnerability to various creature sweepers, but it's probably harder to remove than Sulfuric Vortex is. I'm not sure this is the right deck for it, but I'm certainly going to test it here (and in almost every blue tempo or Blade deck I try).

[trollking21]

]

True-Name Nemesis should be compared to a one-sided blue Sulfuric Vortex that also blocks like a champ in aggressive matchups. Sure, it has some vulnerability to various creature sweepers, but it's probably harder to remove than Sulfuric Vortex is. I'm not sure this is the right deck for it, but I'm certainly going to test it here (and in almost every blue tempo or Blade deck I try).

He survives any damaged based sweepers like pyro clams or rough // tumble so really only p-deed supreme verdict and terminus get him I think.

[DragoFireheart]

]

He survives any damaged based sweepers like pyro clams or rough // tumble so really only p-deed supreme verdict and terminus get him I think.

Supreme Verdict
Terminus
Golgari Charm
Liliana of the Veil
Toxic Delgue


These are some cards that can nuke TNN.

[Cenarius]

Went 3-1 at Legacy warm-up at Grand Prix Antwerp with UGR Delver.

Mainboard with 3 Probe, 1 Forked Bolt.

Sideboard:

1 Divert
2 Pyroblast
2 Flusterstorm
3 Submerge
1 Sulfur Elemental
2 Rough // Tumble
1 Life from the Loam
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought (my old buddies from way back)

Matchups:

2-1 UGR Delver
0-2 Shardless Bug
2-1 Shardless Bug
2-0 Miracle Control

MVP of the day: Nimble Mongoose, honorable mention is Probe.

Things I would change: play more Divert. I wanted to play 3, but eventually played 1. I would cut the Flusterstorms.

Things I did not like about UGR Delver: Once you get behind it's really hard to come back in the game, that's mainly because of Lightning bolt, compared to actual removal. I still believe Lightning Bolt are win-more.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Went 3-1 at Legacy warm-up at Grand Prix Antwerp with UGR Delver.

Mainboard with 3 Probe, 1 Forked Bolt.

Sideboard:

1 Divert
2 Pyroblast
2 Flusterstorm
3 Submerge
1 Sulfur Elemental
2 Rough // Tumble
1 Life from the Loam
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought (my old buddies from way back)

Matchups:

2-1 UGR Delver
0-2 Shardless Bug
2-1 Shardless Bug
2-0 Miracle Control

MVP of the day: Nimble Mongoose, honorable mention is Probe.

Things I would change: play more Divert. I wanted to play 3, but eventually played 1. I would cut the Flusterstorms.

Things I did not like about UGR Delver: Once you get behind it's really hard to come back in the game, that's mainly because of Lightning bolt, compared to actual removal. I still believe Lightning Bolt are win-more.

Grats on the finish! Have you won anything?
What would you recommend instead of Bolts? I'm really surprised by this idea, I find the Bolt extremely important.

[Cenarius]

Grats on the finish! Have you won anything?
What would you recommend instead of Bolts? I'm really surprised by this idea, I find the Bolt extremely important.

I won 3 boosters and a bye for the legacy championship on sunday. But I couldn't play in that tournament since I went day 2 at the Modern (main) event. If I would not make it to day 2, I would have played a different deck (more of that later).

I would recommend a list that plays actual removal instead of Lightning Bolts. I ran a list, back in the days, with:

4 Nimble mongoose
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Ghastly Demise
1 Dismember/1 Smother (can't remember).


To be honest, I had literally no idea what to play for the 'small' tournament. Since there are like a billion options for tempo-decks. U only have 12-14 slots for creatures, though 12 is probably my maximum. With creatures like Deathrite Shaman, Nimble Mongoose, Delver of Secrets, Dark Confidant, Tarmogoyf, Scavenging Ooze, Young Pyromancer and what not, to choose from. I simply decided to try the old list (kinda for old sake) since I knew it would be ok.

I really think that Shardless BUG is good, it just plays several bad cards to not make it a better deck. Or maybe just a BUG tempo/team america list would be my choice if I play a legacy tournament.

[cheerios]

@Cenaruis

The bolts are really good for killing walkers and can close games when opponents are really low on life. I played BUG and missed my bolts.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

There's a trouble with the Boltless lists that cheerios described. Otoh, the non-Decay decks suffer of opposing Goyfs. Mabye BURG is the tempo deck to choose, otoh, I dislike it's horrendous manabase and the fact that it's a USD 2000 monstrosity that dies to Forked Bolt.

[Will_L]

There's a trouble with the Boltless lists that cheerios described. Otoh, the non-Decay decks suffer of opposing Goyfs. Mabye BURG is the tempo deck to choose, otoh, I dislike it's horrendous manabase and the fact that it's a USD 2000 monstrosity that dies to Forked Bolt.

BURG doesn't die to Forked Bolt.

RWU delver is the best tempo deck to be playing atm. Grixis delver is another good choice but if you don't stick Pyromancer then you are leaning really hard on Delvers to win you the game.

Sorry for the OT but I really wanted to hear what you meant about FB being good against BURG?

[Tormod]

BURG doesn't die to Forked Bolt.

RWU delver is the best tempo deck to be playing atm. Grixis delver is another good choice but if you don't stick Pyromancer then you are leaning really hard on Delvers to win you the game.

Sorry for the OT but I really wanted to hear what you meant about FB being good against BURG?

I'm playing burg, and I'm interested too on what he mean by folds to forked bolt.

re: UWR Delver, it really isn't a tempo deck at all. it does a good job of intimidating the RUG plan when its opening hand is delver, daze, fetch, brainstorm but the decks is midrange. But STP contradicts the tempo plan, after delver, the decks is severely lacking in cost efficient threats. 4 Daze + 3-4 wastelands its easy to have geist stranded in hand.

[Sasan]

The statement is false.

RUG has 8 creatures that do not die to Forked Bolt (Goyfs and Mongeese).

We have 6 ones (4 Mongeese and 2 Goyfs).

Assuming that no RUG list plays more than one Forked Bolt it makes no sense at all on a mathematical base that bUrg dies more to Forked Bolt compared to RUG Delver itself. That are nuances. In exchange we get Deathrite Shamans and Decays - answers for opposing Mongeese and Goyfs from RUG - so I think the matchup is more than even. We are ahead in that matchup. I could also say: Why play RUG Delver, when everything dies to Decay :-P That would be the same level of false statement.

@UWR: As the new lists play Stoneforge and Equipments there is no way that Patriot can be qualified as a tempo deck. It is a midrange deck with worse control elements than Esper Blade/Death Blade and a tempo deck with worse tempo elements - Swords to Plowshares, 3-drops. So it is an interesting hybrid deck. It has good results. So you can play that deck and have success with it. But do not call it a tempo deck.

[Will_L]

The statement is false.

RUG has 8 creatures that do not die to Forked Bolt (Goyfs and Mongeese).

We have 6 ones (4 Mongeese and 2 Goyfs).

Assuming that no RUG list plays more than one Forked Bolt it makes no sense at all on a mathematical base that bUrg dies more to Forked Bolt compared to RUG Delver itself. That are nuances. In exchange we get Deathrite Shamans and Decays - answers for opposing Mongeese and Goyfs from RUG - so I think the matchup is more than even. We are ahead in that matchup. I could also say: Why play RUG Delver, when everything dies to Decay :-P That would be the same level of false statement.

@UWR: As the new lists play Stoneforge and Equipments there is no way that Patriot can be qualified as a tempo deck. It is a midrange deck with worse control elements than Esper Blade/Death Blade and a tempo deck with worse tempo elements - Swords to Plowshares, 3-drops. So it is an interesting hybrid deck. It has good results. So you can play that deck and have success with it. But do not call it a tempo deck.

Ahh yes, I was not a fan of that innovation, I agree that SFM is not a good fit for tempo and is very often too slow. I am basically playing another Spell Pierce and some Chain Lightnings in place of SFM. The rest of the deck is very similar to other UWR Delver lists that have been placing.

I disagree that UWR isn't a tempo deck. I don't think Geist and StP are enough to stop it from being tempo. You have a very similar game plan (as SFMless UWR delver) to other Delver decks but you trade the speed and efficiency of RUG for not being GY dependant and for having 8+ removal spells. Any deck that plays 4 stifle, 4 waste, 4 daze and a ton of free/cheap counters is a tempo deck in my mind.

[Sasan]

Ahh yes, I was not a fan of that innovation, I agree that SFM is not a good fit for tempo and is very often too slow. I am basically playing another Spell Pierce and some Chain Lightnings in place of SFM. The rest of the deck is very similar to other UWR Delver lists that have been placing.

I disagree that UWR isn't a tempo deck. I don't think Geist and StP are enough to stop it from being tempo. You have a very similar game plan (as SFMless UWR delver) to other Delver decks but you trade the speed and efficiency of RUG for not being GY dependant and for having 8+ removal spells. Any deck that plays 4 stifle, 4 waste, 4 daze and a ton of free/cheap counters is a tempo deck in my mind.

Without Stoneforges I agree that UWR is a tempo deck. The new versions are too far away from the tempo plan.

[Cenarius]

What I find weird, is that around 1/4 of the metagame is Delver. Yet, there is no discussion about what list is better (for which metagame), people simply put together lists with roughly the same cards and get roughly the same results. I just don't get that.

For example, against Shardless BUG. I found out that Tarmogoyf and Delver were practically useless. Strix and Decay are really hard to play against. That matchup is probably pretty bad for the Delver player.

And when I'm looking at the Shardless BUG list, I see a better use of Deathrite Shaman than when they're play at bUrg Tempo. To be honest, I think you (anybody) have to make a choice between Delver and the one-mana planeswalker (Deathrite Shaman).

I will choose Deathrite Shaman over Delver for the next tournament.

[Barbed Blightning]

What I find weird, is that around 1/4 of the metagame is Delver. Yet, there is no discussion about what list is better (for which metagame), people simply put together lists with roughly the same cards and get roughly the same results. I just don't get that.

For example, against Shardless BUG. I found out that Tarmogoyf and Delver were practically useless. Strix and Decay are really hard to play against. That matchup is probably pretty bad for the Delver player.

And when I'm looking at the Shardless BUG list, I see a better use of Deathrite Shaman than when they're play at bUrg Tempo. To be honest, I think you (anybody) have to make a choice between Delver and the one-mana planeswalker (Deathrite Shaman).

I will choose Deathrite Shaman over Delver for the next tournament.

Really? Because I was curbstomping shardless BUG when I was playing RUG. They can't handle goose and their mana is quite vulnerable, esp without shaman. It's not always a cakewalk, but Delver/Goyf and the rest of the deck are hardly "useless." Then again, 2 snares and forked bolts did a lot of work.