[Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

[trollking21]

Part of me wonders how much we need Abrupt Decay in the current metagame. Those are three sideboard slots that could be used to improve other match-ups.

What card(s) would you play instead?

[Tom T]

Past weekend I played at the Legacy Championship at Grand Prix Antwerp. Went 4-4 on a very tiring day. 8 rounds being the longest tournament I've played with this deck so far.

I played BC's main deck with -1 CT, +1 Thoughtseize.
Sideboard:
2x Cabal Therapy
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Chain of Vapor
2x Xantid Swarm
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Grapeshot
1x Past in Flames
1x Diminishing Returns
1x Pyroclasm
1x Telemin Performance

I faced: 2x ANT, 1x TES, 1x BURG, 1x Jund, 1x Goblins, 1x Maverick, 1x UR Punishing Control.

The TP was used once in the first game against TES and I could have gone for an other line of play without it. There was a lot of High Tide in the room, but I guess I would be afraid of a main deck Cloud of Faeries. I didn't face any Show and Tell decks or Reanimator so I don't know if it would be great against those decks.

The 2 main deck Thoughtseize's were awesome, except against the BURG player. I really missed my Duresses there and with the inclusion of Thoughtseize I guess the Tempo matchup is horrible (however there are a lot of 'bad' Tempo players).

Pyroclasm is awesome. Saturday I won through a couple of hatebears because of it, and it works great against Meddling Mage surrounded with DRS, Confidants and other friends. This card saved my ass a couple of times against a lethal board position + hatebear.

Abrupt Decay was a waste of space the entire weekend. I didn't face Counterbalance or Chalice and I think those could also be answered by our discard or an Empty the Warrens line. Next to that I think Abrupt Decay only works against MUD or hatebears in magical christmas land because of Wasteland/Rishadan Port. Now, Shattering Spree or something else would be slightly better I guess.

EDIT: Also, I think with the inclusion of Thoughtseize, 2 Cabal Therapy in the 75 would be enough. However against Tempo you want 4 MD discard + 1 SB discard.

[Kael]

Past weekend I played at the Legacy Championship at Grand Prix Antwerp. Went 4-4 on a very tiring day. 8 rounds being the longest tournament I've played with this deck so far.

I played BC's main deck with -1 CT, +1 Thoughtseize.
Sideboard:
2x Cabal Therapy
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Chain of Vapor
2x Xantid Swarm
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Grapeshot
1x Past in Flames
1x Diminishing Returns
1x Pyroclasm
1x Telemin Performance

I faced: 2x ANT, 1x TES, 1x BURG, 1x Jund, 1x Goblins, 1x Maverick, 1x UR Punishing Control.

The TP was used once in the first game against TES and I could have gone for an other line of play without it. There was a lot of High Tide in the room, but I guess I would be afraid of a main deck Cloud of Faeries. I didn't face any Show and Tell decks or Reanimator so I don't know if it would be great against those decks.

The 2 main deck Thoughtseize's were awesome, except against the BURG player. I really missed my Duresses there and with the inclusion of Thoughtseize I guess the Tempo matchup is horrible (however there are a lot of 'bad' Tempo players).

Pyroclasm is awesome. Saturday I won through a couple of hatebears because of it, and it works great against Meddling Mage surrounded with DRS, Confidants and other friends. This card saved my ass a couple of times against a lethal board position + hatebear.

Abrupt Decay was a waste of space the entire weekend. I didn't face Counterbalance or Chalice and I think those could also be answered by our discard or an Empty the Warrens line. Next to that I think Abrupt Decay only works against MUD or hatebears in magical christmas land because of Wasteland/Rishadan Port. Now, Shattering Spree or something else would be slightly better I guess.

EDIT: Also, I think with the inclusion of Thoughtseize, 2 Cabal Therapy in the 75 would be enough. However against Tempo you want 4 MD discard + 1 SB discard.

When you say you could have gone for another line of play, do you mean you had a guaranteed path to victory and used TP instead, or you used the 0-variance TP kill instead of a PiF/DR line that had a small chance of failure?

I have to agree with you and Cook on Abrupt Decay. I haven't decayed a Counterbalance in quite awhile, and Decaying a hatebear usually ends up being complicated by Wasteland/Port.

[Tom T]

When you say you could have gone for another line of play, do you mean you had a guaranteed path to victory and used TP instead, or you used the 0-variance TP kill instead of a PiF/DR line that had a small chance of failure?

I have to agree with you and Cook on Abrupt Decay. I haven't decayed a Counterbalance in quite awhile, and Decaying a hatebear usually ends up being complicated by Wasteland/Port.

TP instead of AN from 15 life. Team Nijmegen and a group of german ANT players came up with some fresh ideas which I might test.

[Lemnear]

TP instead of AN from 15 life. Team Nijmegen and a group of german ANT players came up with some fresh ideas which I might test.

For MB or SB? Would be interrested in those ideas ... leaving for BoM in 2 Days

[Bahamuth]

For MB or SB? Would be interrested in those ideas ... leaving for BoM in 2 Days

Standstill SB. We think it has potential since TES can play it turn 1 easily, and playing it over a single creature might still be good enough. A lot of the BUG lists play a lot of discard and almost no countermagic. If you play it over a single creature, you can probably just draw-go forever and then just kill them with a single protection spell.

At least that's the idea. No testing has been done.

[P-E]

good luck guys
i'll look for top8 to see some TES players !!!

[Lemnear]

Standstill SB. We think it has potential since TES can play it turn 1 easily, and playing it over a single creature might still be good enough. A lot of the BUG lists play a lot of discard and almost no countermagic. If you play it over a single creature, you can probably just draw-go forever and then just kill them with a single protection spell.

At least that's the idea. No testing has been done.

Thx for the quick response. The idea Sounds a lot like running Ignorant Bliss but is a lot better against the overall field and to fight creatures. Sadly the Card appears pretty useless on the draw (T1 drop is not guaranteed even with 4 Petal / 3 Chrome Mox) especially against Daze/Pierce/Snare and discard. It's interresting, but I doubt I have enough time to give it a spin for now :/

[Bahamuth]

Thx for the quick response. The idea Sounds a lot like running Ignorant Bliss but is a lot better against the overall field and to fight creatures. Sadly the Card appears pretty useless on the draw (T1 drop is not guaranteed even with 4 Petal / 3 Chrome Mox) especially against Daze/Pierce/Snare and discard. It's interresting, but I doubt I have enough time to give it a spin for now :/

Well, if the card gets Spell Pierced, you're probably fine with that, and the idea is that most decks that run discard don't really run Daze. The card is probably still pretty bad if he does turn 1 Deathrite turn 2 some creature though, so it might only be good enough on the play, and then it's probably not worth it. I'm just not sure at all.

[oSeabass]

It is probably way to slow, but what about something like Ancestral Visions? You can play it turn 1 against something running discard. You then spend the next couple of turns priming by disrupting as much as you can. Doesn't hurt from AN, since it costs 0. It's blue to be used in a pinch for Chrome Mox. I am a lot less familiar with sideboarded games, but it seems that the theme is the deck slows down a little bit when it bring out Ponder and IT to bring in more discard to hit the extra counters that come in to play a "grindier" game.

[Tom T]

It is probably way to slow, but what about something like Ancestral Visions? You can play it turn 1 against something running discard. You then spend the next couple of turns priming by disrupting as much as you can. Doesn't hurt from AN, since it costs 0. It's blue to be used in a pinch for Chrome Mox. I am a lot less familiar with sideboarded games, but it seems that the theme is the deck slows down a little bit when it bring out Ponder and IT to bring in more discard to hit the extra counters that come in to play a "grindier" game.

Other than on the first turn Ancestral Vision is too slow. It's a terrible topdeck. TES loses grind games against those decks because the opponent plays a clock, Liliana and/or Dark Confidant in the meantime.

Standstill is also a terrible topdeck beyond the second turn if you didn't Silence some turns I guess.

Anyway, I'm not having a terrible time against (just) discard decks but more against Tempo decks and UBx decks lately.

EDIT: Just came by Library of Leng as an answer to discard. Any thoughts?

[oSeabass]

Anyway, I'm not having a terrible time against (just) discard decks but more against Tempo decks and UBx decks lately.

I have found tempo decks to be the hardest for me because I am still learning the sideboard tools in certain spots. I don't pull the trigger on Diminishing Returns as much as I feel I should be, but against decks like Delver I am hesitant to do this without a resolved Silence. Waiting for that spot, normally means I am taking a loss of a lot of life due to some creature smacking me down.

Against discard like BUG, I am torn between using Silence to stop one of the few counters they could have, or use it to Silence walk them on critical turns 2 and 3 (Hymn, Liliana). I am learning the value of turn 1 LED and Lotus Petal into play instead of holding them, because holding them means a resolved discard spell slows down our explosiveness later. This is something I will learn in time a little more once I lose to discard hitting LED and I kick myself for not playing it. This theory also applies to Thalia and other "+1 cost" type effects (Thorn, Thalia, etc.).

The discard decks seem a little easier as they run less counters, so playing mana out early and using Brainstorm defensively I think helps make that easier. Resolved Liliana is tough, and them having the rare counter pre board is tough. I find decks like Delver way tougher without a hand of instant speed mana ramp to pay for Daze/Spell Pierce effects.

[oSeabass]

EDIT: Just came by Library of Leng as an answer to discard. Any thoughts?

Seems nice. I feel like it saves you when the 1 card you need is lost, but I think it could make a bad situation worse. If you are stuck with stuff on top already due to a Brainstorm and no fetch (which you tried to dig with), having two more "dead" cards on top makes it a tough situation. The deck has enough repetition of threats and cantrip/filtering, is the discard really THAT bad since it is only sorcery speed and we should be able to see it coming? I'd rather have another Therapy or Thoughtseize, Therapy naming Hymn if you think it's coming and Thoughtseize deals with it anyway.

[Tom T]

I have found tempo decks to be the hardest for me because I am still learning the sideboard tools in certain spots. I don't pull the trigger on Diminishing Returns as much as I feel I should be, but against decks like Delver I am hesitant to do this without a resolved Silence. Waiting for that spot, normally means I am taking a loss of a lot of life due to some creature smacking me down.

Against discard like BUG, I am torn between using Silence to stop one of the few counters they could have, or use it to Silence walk them on critical turns 2 and 3 (Hymn, Liliana). I am learning the value of turn 1 LED and Lotus Petal into play instead of holding them, because holding them means a resolved discard spell slows down our explosiveness later. This is something I will learn in time a little more once I lose to discard hitting LED and I kick myself for not playing it. This theory also applies to Thalia and other "+1 cost" type effects (Thorn, Thalia, etc.).

The discard decks seem a little easier as they run less counters, so playing mana out early and using Brainstorm defensively I think helps make that easier. Resolved Liliana is tough, and them having the rare counter pre board is tough. I find decks like Delver way tougher without a hand of instant speed mana ramp to pay for Daze/Spell Pierce effects.

BUG usually has more discard than counterspells so silence walking is OK. However, you could counter discard with a combination of: your own discard spells (if you still have them in your deck), Brainstorm, 2+ business spells, a lot of rituals, plenty of lands. Then you can use Silence before going off.

Also, keep in mind that BUG usually plays Abrupt Decay so take a moment to think before you jam artifacts on the table. Keeping your Lotus Petals and Moxen in your hand is usually better except when you suspect a Hymn to Tourach and the other cards in your hand are less valuable.
Sunday I lost a match because I played a Lotus Petal in the early turns and was 1 storm short of a lethal Tendrils 4/5 turns later. I didn't notice this until Bahamuth pointed it out to me.

Library of Leng is too narrow, card disadvantage and most likely redundant. For the time being I'll play 1 (maybe 2) Orim's Chant in the board.

EDIT:

Seems nice. I feel like it saves you when the 1 card you need is lost, but I think it could make a bad situation worse. If you are stuck with stuff on top already due to a Brainstorm and no fetch (which you tried to dig with), having two more "dead" cards on top makes it a tough situation.

Library has a 'may' ability.

[oSeabass]

Also, keep in mind that BUG usually plays Abrupt Decay so take a moment to think before you jam artifacts on the table. Keeping your Lotus Petals and Moxen in your hand is usually better except when you suspect a Hymn to Tourach and the other cards in your hand are less valuable.

I guess counter discard is the way to go then. I feel like I haven't yet learned the full potential of protecting a hand with Brainstorm to put needed cards on top in response to discard. I feel if I had a Ponder in hand and was "close" to going off, I would get greedy and cast Ponder with a single U open instead of saving the U for a Brainstorm response to discard.

Library has a 'may' ability.

Makes it a little better. I agree it is still too narrow. You bring it in just for decks like BUG and nothing else really. Having another discard spell like Therapy or TS out of the board seems more flexible, and just better 99% of the time.

[Bahamuth]

Putting cards on top doesn't really do enough.

[Lemnear]

Putting cards on top doesn't really do enough.

You invest mana and a card (Library) just for getting cards ontop instead of your GY? No, it does really not enough.

If you have real issues with discard/combo you may try Mystic Remora

[Bryant Cook]

As useless as Decay has been, I've decided it's utility (Counterbalance, Chalice, Gaddock Teeg & Thalia) is too important to cut. But I am moving it's number back down to two, meaning I currently have one open slot and possibly a second to work with if I move down to one sideboard protection slot. I'm just unsure of what to put there.

[paeng4983]

As useless as Decay has been, I've decided it's utility (Counterbalance, Chalice, Gaddock Teeg & Thalia) is too important to cut. But I am moving it's number back down to two, meaning I currently have one open slot and possibly a second to work with if I move down to one sideboard protection slot. I'm just unsure of what to put there.

I'm toying the idea of bringing back Deathmark in place of the 3rd AD. Especially during game ones where you don't have a main deck answer to decks that abuses Thalia or dredge with main Iona, there are times that only the Wishes show up and the SB cards are not. So having this sorcery removal of a G or W creature comes in handy.

Pyroclasm is another thing.

Or can even be Shattering Spree.

[Bryant Cook]

I'm toying the idea of bringing back Deathmark in place of the 3rd AD. Especially during game ones where you don't have a main deck answer to decks that abuses Thalia or dredge with main Iona, there are times that only the Wishes show up and the SB cards are not. So having this sorcery removal of a G or W creature comes in handy.

Pyroclasm is another thing.

Or can even be Shattering Spree.

Iona didn't name Red or Black? Do you play against awful people a lot?

Pyroclasm just isn't worth it, I never want it. We have Grapeshot.

Spree's uses are just too narrow.