All B/R update speculation.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Two card combo easier to play than three?

Yeah people have been sleeping on S&T lately. It's not the monster banworthy deck people made it out to be when Griz dropped but the deck is still real. Ignoring it is comparable to what ignoring Dredge used to be.

[Patrunkenphat7]

I think Griselbrand is easily the most ban-able card in Legacy, although I don't think it needs to be banned right now. Show and Tell and maybe Entomb are distant seconds, but I think it's healthy to have those strategies in Legacy. Griselbrand is what pushes those cards to the limit. It's a little insulting that they printed that card with Yawg Bargain being banned.

[Dice_Box]

I do not see Griselbrand getting the boot, not because it is a card that enables some broken play, but because it's RnD's forth go at making their favourite Enchantment do they ever seam to love the dam thing. (Greed tho was a total bust.)

It would take a large amount of people quitting before they touch their pet.

[apple713]

I do not see Griselbrand getting the boot, not because it is a card that enables some broken play, but because it's RnD's forth go at making their favourite Enchantment do they ever seam to love the dam thing. (Greed tho was a total bust.)

It would take a large amount of people quitting before they touch their pet.

forth go at making their favorite enchantment? what were the others?

I think Griselbrand is easily the most ban-able card in Legacy, although I don't think it needs to be banned right now. Show and Tell and maybe Entomb are distant seconds, but I think it's healthy to have those strategies in Legacy. Griselbrand is what pushes those cards to the limit. It's a little insulting that they printed that card with Yawg Bargain being banned.

Also, Griselbrand and Yawg bargain are very different. making a 7 life commitment is very different than giving up 1 life at a time. If you are at 7 life griselbrand can't draw you cards but bargain will still get you 6 cards.

Also, if you turn 1 a bargain you can get 19 cards, if you turn 1 a griselbrand you get 14 cards. decks like ANT would probably stop using Ad nauseum and run 4x bargain.

[Dice_Box]

forth go at making their favorite enchantment? what were the others?

Necropotence
Yawgmoth's Bargain (The "Fixed" Necro)
Greed (The reprint in 6th as a way to get people to stop playing the other two. Both where legal in extended at the time and where at this point heavily played.
Griselbrand

They really like the ability. Even should (and I do not see it happening) Brand get the boot, when the memories die away we will see a reprint of this concept. For whatever reason it is both seen as broken in two but so loved they push what really is better left alone.

[apple713]

Necropotence
Yawgmoth's Bargain (The "Fixed" Necro)
Greed (The reprint in 6th as a way to get people to stop playing the other two. Both where legal in extended at the time and where at this point heavily played.
Griselbrand

They really like the ability. Even should (and I do not see it happening) Brand get the boot, when the memories die away we will see a reprint of this concept. For whatever reason it is both seen as broken in two but so loved they push what really is better left alone.

what if they just printed necropotence with a in addition to the 1 life. seems to slow down the bonkers draws

[thecrav]

what if they just printed necropotence with a in addition to the 1 life. seems to slow down the bonkers draws

Still seems way too good in a ritual-powered deck. It would probably be fine in vintage but not legacy.

[apple713]

Still seems way too good in a ritual-powered deck. It would probably be fine in vintage but not legacy.

i don't think necropotence is even played in vintage...no top 8's with it at this year's BoM.

having to might make it too slow to even be used with all of the tempo and degernate combo in legacy. Even if u turn 1 cast it off a ritual you wouldn't be able to draw a card from it until the end of your second turn and since you no longer draw cards normally for the turn you almost lose a turn because you have to pay just to draw 1 for the turn. Late game its great and amazing but other than that the mana restriction along with the delayed draw would make it to slow to be abused.

3 life and 3 for 3 cards is in line with ambition's cost especially with a huge downside of skipping your draw phase and drawing the cards at EoT.

[Dice_Box]

It is played, just not as much as it once was.

Also I dislike talking about Vintage while comparing cards. I mean this is a format where Dredge cares more about having one broken land more than having a card to Dredge with. A LAND. The format is broken in half. Saying something is played less there than it once was does nothing to disprove the fact that the card is bonkers.

[ESG]

Necropotence
Yawgmoth's Bargain (The "Fixed" Necro)
Greed (The reprint in 6th as a way to get people to stop playing the other two. Both where legal in extended at the time and where at this point heavily played.
Griselbrand

They really like the ability. Even should (and I do not see it happening) Brand get the boot, when the memories die away we will see a reprint of this concept. For whatever reason it is both seen as broken in two but so loved they push what really is better left alone.

You're right. This is a recurring theme. Erebos, God of the Dead is the latest representative, though attaching the mana cost to the activation keeps the card in check. I can say that Necro was busted in its era, Bargain was not quite as strong but was still ultimately busted, Greed was playable but not overpowered, and Griselbrand is more busted than all, mainly because it regains the life lost and because there are so many ways to cheat it into play.

[Hardcore]

I recall reading that Wizards do not think they have enough people in RnD to consider the effect of new sets on various formats.
Given that it would be best to ban cards that can cheat other cards into play, wouldn't it? That way they could print whatever they like and be safe evermore.

[dontbiteitholmes]

i don't think necropotence is even played in vintage...no top 8's with it at this year's BoM.

having to might make it too slow to even be used with all of the tempo and degernate combo in legacy. Even if u turn 1 cast it off a ritual you wouldn't be able to draw a card from it until the end of your second turn and since you no longer draw cards normally for the turn you almost lose a turn because you have to pay just to draw 1 for the turn. Late game its great and amazing but other than that the mana restriction along with the delayed draw would make it to slow to be abused.

3 life and 3 for 3 cards is in line with ambition's cost especially with a huge downside of skipping your draw phase and drawing the cards at EoT.

It was played by Reid Duke who top 8'd Vintage World Champs the same day.

Edit - 11-11-13

In before "OMG 10 copies of TNN in SCG top 8 ban Nemesis!"

[Higgs]

My wife knows nothing about MtG and yesterday I was showing her my Miracles deck. She took a look at the cards, picked up Brainstorm and told she like that one best. I guess it doesn't take too much to understand Brainstorm is one hell of a card :D. I thought it was pretty funny, I didn't know where to post this so I picked the B/R thread as Brainstorm is a popular topic here :D

[(nameless one)]

My wife knows nothing about MtG and yesterday I was showing her my Miracles deck. She took a look at the cards, picked up Brainstorm and told she like that one best. I guess it doesn't take too much to understand Brainstorm is one hell of a card :D. I thought it was pretty funny, I didn't know where to post this so I picked the B/R thread as Brainstorm is a popular topic here :D

It's funny how I was teaching a guy at work how to play Magic. He had a no rare Soldier Tribal and I have a no rare U/R Pyromancer deck. He thought Pyromancer was cool but he thinks Brainstorm is broken with Terramorphic Expanse. This guy only started playing magic 4 days ago.

[Erdvermampfa]

Recent results indicate that True-Name Nemesis is indeed ban-worthy, just look at the latest SCG Top 8.

[Lemnear]

Recent results indicate that True-Name Nemesis is indeed ban-worthy, just look at the latest SCG Top 8.

Don't confuse "dominance" with "hype"

[testing32]

Recent results indicate that True-Name Nemesis is indeed ban-worthy, just look at the latest SCG Top 8.

Cards played at the last SCG open top 8 -

Brainstorm - 28
Force of Will - 26
STP - 24
Stoneforge Mystic - 22
TNN - 17

The meta is still shifting. Maybe, after GP Paris we will know enough to form real opinions.

[Julian23]

The meta is still shifting. Maybe, after GP Paris we will know enough to form real opinions.

Legacy:
Craterhoof Behemoth is banned.

[Lemnear]

Legacy:
Green Sun's Zenith is banned. If your name is Julian Knab, consider Quirion Ranger banned as well.

Fixed

[Erdvermampfa]

I suggest to ban Delver of Secrets, Show and Tell and True-Name Nemesis to improve the overall gaming experience in our format.

edit: Thinking of what we have to face nowadays, Delver seems kind of harmless actually...but it should have been banned from the beginning anyways..