Against Elves, it sounds reasonable, but still possibly slow since you sometimes don't survive to turn 3. However, the card was originally suggested as a response to TNN. Against TNN/Stoneforge decks, you almost surely would not be siding out Thalia, and that's where it seems slow. You need to hit the window between when they resolve Nemesis and when they suit it up with a sword or something. With regards to TNN without equipment, it does not seem hard for us to race it. Post board, we get to side in our own pro-blue equipment like SoFaI. So then Holy Light does not seem useful.Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning
... because ratchet bomb is so much faster? You could take out some elves turn 3, or even a True-Name Nemesis on turn 5!
Here's a man who gets it.
I mean if we're look for "serious" TNN hate, I'd say Meekstone or Wing Shards. Ultimately, though, nothing will fit perfectly, since we're mono W. Y'all need some black up in here if you actually want to hate out your x/1 matches.
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Ratchet Bomb is also very obviously too slow. I don't know of any solutions which are not too slow or have the property that they sting us at the same time (e.g. Meekstone).
If TNN starts to be a problem, skewing towards flyers and SoFaI actually makes Moat look like a solid option... it straight colds a lot of decks (as we all know) and also gives us a slight glimmer of hope in the losing war vs Elves. 4 is a lot of mana, though...
...this is outside of splashing for other colours, of course, but I won't speak of that heresy here.
EDIT: Super Secret Tech! Crovax, Ascendant Hero. Derp.
Folks, think about this logically. -1/-1 effects are not the way to go at all. TNN is a much greater issue in the matchups where it is EQUIPPED . In those same cases (and also against Merfolk), Holy Light does exactly bubcus. Next idea.
Marble Titan is a card. No more Abrupt Decay for Crackdown (which is cute but not a long-term solution). I doubt the Titan is the best solution either. Proactive solutions with broad application are almost always the way to go, and this guy costs a million mana for a minimal effect. Plus, good decks play good cards, and this one ain't.
Wing Shards has been mentioned, but let me tell you that leaving three mana open with this deck in case the opponent attacks is both telegraphy at its finest and devastating when the opponent picks up on it. I have been on both sides of that one. Bad times.
Runed Halo has been floated, but I dunno. I just can't see bringing it in against something with as many threats as the decks with this card will have. And it is not proactive. Anyone have experience with Story Circle? It seems worse than Crackdown.
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So have you guys pretty much decided that Sword of Fire and Ice is better than Sword of Body and Mind?
I fooled with Story Circle back around Dark Ascension-era Legacy, but always found it slow and too White intensive. Manriki Gusari would be more useful, imo
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I think Sword of Fire and Ice provides more utility than Sword of Body and Mind. It's triggers are stronger, thus on an evasive threat it generates more powerful effects. There are match ups and board states where fetching Sword of Fire and Ice could be preferable to Jitte, namely against control and combo decks, where the Sword will close the game faster as far as damage per turn goes than Jitte or Sword of Body and Mind. It has the upside of cantripping you into more disruption, while not risking facilitating things like Past in Flames or Reanimate. As a 3rd piece of equipment I think it has larger impact against a wider range of decks - providing Protection from Baleful Strix on our fliers and being able to use the trigger to remove anything but Goyf against Shardless BUG is valuable; against Goblins it's very strong both getting through damage and controlling their critical mass of guys; it's trigger is also powerful against Maverick or the mirror to gain Mother of Runes advantage, etc.
The two strategies I prefer Sword of Body and Mind against are Merfolk and Green-based Goyf/Knight of the Reliquary (Junk/Bant) type decks. Against these match ups the utilizing the Wolf token to provide a new body to equip the Sword on the defensive, providing pseudo-Vigilance out of one Creature card is decent value. Also the creatures that you're concerned about in these matches generally grow out of shock range pretty quickly.
I think in most metagames Sword of Fire and Ice is going to preform better.
Maybe the correct approach is to forget about killing or locking down TNN and just go around it with Manriki-Gusari and SoFaI. If we have either of those pieces available, we should be off to the races.
I agree. Forget about horrible niche cards to deal with TNN specifically. Even if we find an acceptable one, I doubt TNN will take over the metagame to the point of demanding sideboard slots dedicated exclusively to it. We've already established that this card is not a huge problem in Merfolk, since it will actually slow down their aggro (they'll have to take out a lord to make room for it) to the point where we can simply race it with equipment.
That leaves us with blue based stoneblade decks, which are traditionally slow and struggle against DnT, especially the three color variants. If that archetype comes back, it's probably time to start packing Manriki Gusari in the SB.
I'm not that worried about Esper, but a U/W stoneblade deck with mostly basic lands utilizing Back to Basics (and possibly Pariah on TNN) might be nasty. I doubt it'd have sufficient game against combo to ever become a force in the meta, though. That's the beauty of legacy. If it weren't for those degenerate combo decks annihilating or storming you on turn 2-3, the fairest of all decks wouldn't be remotely playable...
It'd be Pariah's Shield over Pariah the enchantment, but yeah. Probably just Equipment hate and racing them will suffice.
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I like meekstone or any way to lock TNN with a permanent because you can flicker it with a flicker whisp for an alpha strike on your side if you have a vial at 3.
Runed halo can also be flickered so it's good.
However, Racing TNN with your equips while taking care of opponents equipements with relic warder seems like the most efficient way to win.
I'd play the more aggressive D&T (with mangara completely out or in the sideboard) because it's good vs TNN decks / Jund decks without lowering the combo match up (except maybe show and tell where mangara could be cheated thanks to S&T and be used to get rid of whatever was dropped on the other side of the table).
Well…
I don't play a lot of DnT (None at all, for the entirety of my life!), but I know Shenhar and Enevoldsen played several Serra Avenger + SoFI at BoM, simply due to the fact that there were TNN every-fucking-where down there.
I think you need black splash now for something like zealous persecution or engineered plague-this isn't a deck like goblins that can suicidally attack over and over again and still win. Or at a bare minimum sword of fire and ice md. Maybe even something like soltari priest to get in there....
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Pariah's Shield is tutorable, but costs significantly more mana and can't be cast on your opponents' creatures for shenanigans.
I've finally picked up the Ports and now I'm able to play D&T on MODO (since that was my long-term plan anyway).
As far as TNN is concerned:
Aren't you worried that we get hit by the hate splash if -1/-1 effects start to run rampant?
Would you guys board out Sword of Fire and Ice vs Painter Servant decks?
Yes it's the first thing to go
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Is that because the sword will automatically fall off the equipped creature if there is a servant naming blue (or red) in play? Otherwise it would seem pretty good against them.
Precisely. It's too much of a liability. Feast and Famine would be better, if you run it.
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