Don't ban the card, ban the designerOriginally Posted by rufus
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That is, a net loss for everyone. In money, in fun, in format variety.
Ban the card, shoot the designer with cannons.
Preach it.
Even though I'm going to be playing TNN and it seems like it may easily fit in with the cards I already play and it makes my deck better, I still dislike it. This just isn't a fun card and I don't understand why anyone at wotc would have thought it seemed like a good idea. I just have no faith in those people.
I think it's fair to say that any lines of play which involve the controller of a creature taking advantage of its protection to cast a spell that doesn't affect it, is marginal enough that it's worth the "strictly" bit.
Protection is DEBT, right; no Damage, no Enchantments, no Blocks, no Targets. There's only so many of these that protection allows you to turn on its head and actually bend the rules in your favor. Targeting your own creature is a thing, but typically it's with a sympathetic creature (Mother of Runes, etc) or an Equipment. Blocking is something that you can't really use to your advantage; yes you block the opponent's creature all day but you can't block your own creature if you control it, yeah? Enchantments exist in every color so you could jam one into a deck, but most of them are bad, typically because protection from color isn't all that hard to get around in this our beautiful format of duals and fetchlands. That leaves damage; when was the last time anyone played Holy Tommy Gun to great effect? If someone's sitting on a competitive White Weenie-splash-Red-for-Starstorm list, I want in on that mess. Otherwise it is a fringe line of play that is rarely useful.
Honestly, this kind of hair-splitting between when a card's mechanics are or are not "strictly better" than the other is not applied evenly or fairly enough from 'on high' in WotC -- it's starting to sound like a McGuffin. The first thing I think of is their stupid stance on Reverberate - it is not a reprint of Fork because it doesn't turn the spell Red, *but* it is "too close for comfort" so it won't be printed again. On the flipside, True-Name Nemesis offers a protection which, while not exactly "protection from color", pretty much undermines it completely because it is fundamentally more powerful in a 1v1 matchup - oh, but wait, you can't cast Earthquake and keep your guy, so it must not be strictly better, so it must be a fine Blue card. Rubbish. Something something shoulda been White something. Although the critics are probably equally right in saying that if it were White, no one would bother with it. It's because it's in a color that it doesn't seem to belong that people notice it, and because that color just happens to be the same color as Brainstorm and Force of Will, it garners a little too much attention.
whateveeeeer. :)
Side boarded 2 Golgari Charm and played Deluge in my board over Perish last night in anticipation of TNN... Didnt even play against it. On the other hand Golgari Charm isnt terrible vs Death and Taxes. And Deluge is good vs Blightsteel Collosus and Stell Hellkite + Kuldotha Forgemaster. So TNN being a card made my sideboard better!
They should just print
UUU
Sorcery
You win the game
They already did but it costs 2U.
"I made a Redguard that looks like Kimbo Slice. He wrecks peoples' shit. And dragons." - Bignasty197
Show and Tell has conditions, lots of em. Tinker is closer to instant win, but it's banned. Both can be answered if you are prepared.
The going price on "You Win" is currently set at 15 mana (Door to Nothingness).
Well they can't do that, because winning the game is in every color. They just have to do it slightly differently.
Palille's Edict UUUU
Instant
Shuffle all permanents and cards in hand an opponent controls into their owner's libraries. That opponent places their deck in the container it came in before the game started. Their life total becomes 0.
"I don't think I like you. Next." - Abraham Lincoln, to Batman
For that mana I could play Phage the Untouchable and still have mana left over for Reckless Charge and a Rogue's Passage activation.
If you could make it an enchantment so that it can be SNT for 2U that would be better.
Be careful what you wish for. They might be doing it in some form in the future because they decide that "winning is part of the blue color pie". After all, they already printed Omniscience.
The insinuation here seems to be that Omniscience is not Blue, which seems odd to me. I don't see how it would make sense in any other color.
If you don't like Omniscience as a card, that's one thing, but it certainly is a Blue card.
So Omniscience has the same problems as "protection from a player", right? It may or may not be Blue, but that particular execution enables it to just blow alternatives out of the water.
Blue gets to "hack magic", both with a lowercase and capital M. So it's already just innately granted this leeway to do things to the game that other colors just aren't entitled to. Its rawest abilities tend to just enable plays in a more basic or funda--(I hesitate to say 'fundamental' again because wretched writing is bad mkay, but that's what it is)--mental way than the other colors.
It's like saying you're playing Hungry Hungry Hippos and you can only score points for the type of marble that you're 'entitled' to, by some weird hippo-color-identity rule -- like it's HHHEDH. If the hippos were bound to the rules of Magic colors, White would get the "righteous" ones, Black would get the "self-centered" ones, Red would get the "random" ones, Green would get the "natural" ones... and Blue would get the "round" ones.
I mean just being able to draw 'cards' and working well with 'card-drawing' should be clue enough that on the whole it needs to be carefully monitored. Blue innately just gets more game pieces than every other color. That tilts the odds in their favor a bit. But when these 'uber' spells come along and every color is like "hey cooooool I get to do something that's super in my skill set!" You get these things like Devout Invocation, which is like… flavorful and shit, your creatures bend the knee and pray for help or whatever... and sure yeah if you untap after a Devout Invocation for 5 or more, sure of course you probably win the game. Meanwhile though, since Blue just hacks the Gibson it pays six for Time Spiral and you're like, "Oh, well I … oh."
Thats one of my terrible useless hyperbole posts again, but w/e I'm out the door. Dogs to walk, wife to feed, etc etc. If you can't follow me after Hungry Hungry Hippos EDH… meh
Omniscience is certainly blue.
I was talking about how stupid Omniscience as a concept is - which is already pretty close to "win the game" since it breaks one of the basic principles of Magic in half. Same goes for Enter the Infinite.
I don't see how Enter the Infinite breaks any basic principles of Magic in half. "Pay a lot of mana and draw your deck" has existed since Alpha in the form of Braingeyser, and as recently in Return to Ravnica with Sphinx's Revelation. This isn't new. All Enter the Infinite really does is make it cheaper, but to compensate you have to pay the full 12 mana rather than have the opportunity to pay a lower amount if you want for a lesser effect.
Kinda like how you can draw a lot more cards with a Blue Sun's Zenith than an Inspiration, but to compensate you have to spend 5 mana with BSZ to do what Inspiration does for 4. The tradeoff with Enter the Infinite is that while you get greater power for its mana cost (12 mana to draw the deck is a lot cheaper than any "X mana to draw X cards" spell), it lacks the flexibility that something like Braingeyser offers.
I can understand why people complain about Omniscience--I don't agree, but I can understand it--but Enter the Infinite doesn't break principles of Magic any more than Braingeyser does.
Frankly, I consider most of those complaints about how bad this card's design and wizards in general is as a bit insincere because I'm sure everyone here is aware that Wizards prints cards like TNN purposefully to make incentives for a wider playerbase and therefore are obliged to create stupidly overpowered stuff.
@Lord Seth you are wrong Braingayser/Stroke etc had X in cost so it couldn't be cheated for example via Omni which Enter the Infinite can.
There was no other card printed before which allow player draw so many cards for so low cost (counting resources as mana only).
Anyway conclusion:
WotC printing some really unfun, non-interactive cards last tmes:
- Emrakul
- Griselbrand
- Omnisience
- Enter the Infinite
- and now True-Name Nemesis
They are overlay just bad as a concept which is against of Magic as a game idea - interaction between two players.
I totally agree.
TNN is not that unfair since he costs 1UU and there are many ways to somehow deal with it.
But, since it denies interactions between the players : it's a uninteresting card and it impoverishes the whole game. Therefore, I think it should be banned (just my opinion).
Regards
Spaker
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