[Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Not sure, although I thought I saw a couple people close. I didn't play Tin fins in the main event.

I did, however play it in a couple 8-mans today with a joke of a sideboard. :) Haven't played this in paper for a long time - felt good turn 1ing people again. Although, I did seem to fizzle a bit more often than I remembered...

Fizzle? How? Did you do something to your list?

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[P-E]

someone has allen's list ?
wondering what was his side as i saw some MBT ^^

[Koby]

From his last stream: http://www.twitch.tv/acpennington/b/477610238

Also, in list form: http://mtgstats.com/Deck.aspx?DeckID=625983

[P-E]

thx koby
if i have enough tests i'll play Tinfins at GP Paris

[.dk]

Fizzle? How? Did you do something to your list?

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Nope - the maindeck I was running was:

1 Emrakul
2 Griselbrand
1 Children of Korlis

4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox
4 Entomb
4 Shallow Grave
3 Goryo's Vengeance
1 Reanimate
1 Lim-Dul's Vault
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
1 Silence
1 Tendrils of Agony

2 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Scrubland
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats

Just was getting some extremely poor luck - like no IMS off of draw 14's or 21's, or no Entomb or Children off of the same, etc. Most of those games I still won the following turn anyway. Just seemed like bad variance to me.

[BeardTron]

OK boys & girls, I think our job is done here. Pay attention to the card featured on the side of the screen, the quality of the event, and the audience of the event.

Oh yeah, and the length of time the card is up...

http://www.twitch.tv/magic/b/480336562?t=52m40s

Children = Money

Awesome job beating Ari, who is one of the best storm players around...(wonder what he thinks of Tin Fins)

Mindbreak Trap is good...

[Luklinda]

OK boys & girls, I think our job is done here. Pay attention to the card featured on the side of the screen, the quality of the event, and the audience of the event.

Oh yeah, and the length of time the card is up...

http://www.twitch.tv/magic/b/480336562?t=52m40s

Doesn't Children get pulled up on cam like every Tin-Fins game?

On a side note, the commentary is getting worse and worse:

"It's one of those things where, even if somebody [that I used to know] won a tournament with this exact same decklist a couple of weeks ago - I mean, people, they get to choose which cards they place in their deck, right?"

I'd rather hear them talk about what they had for breakfast if they're that desperate to fill air time. Or at least hire John Madden to talk about it. Maybe pay him in chicken wings.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Mindbreak Trap is good...

...in a heavy storm environment or a big event. Otherwise it's wasted SB slots and that's not something this deck needs...Also, how lucky was it to hit 2 MBT against Ari? Honestly, that's the reason he won. Had he not had BOTH of them, he would have lost. Not hitting a reanimation spell for that long is something that's never happened to me yet, but I run 2 copies of LDV, something I would recommend, and that game 2 is a perfect case-in-point for this.

@ .dk: Have you had an opportunity to test SCM? I keep on finding reasons to like it, and I STILL haven't been boned by it's body yet (lol, I made myself laugh just there). I'm running the standard 4 Shallow, 3 Vengeance reanimation package WITHOUT Reanimate and I'm doing great. I don't play against a lot of blue, but I play against Esper Deathblade with True-Name maindecked, with Cliques in the side for the combo matchup (they pretty much suck against us unless they get a counter-heavy hand and can actually make it to turn 3, and even then, it's touch and go).

-ABC

[nevilshute]

Hey there. I'm trying out Tin Fins with a counter suite as my main line of disruption. I know this has been somewhat debated before, but I've been unable to find an article arguing pros and cons (if anyone can drop a link it would be much appreciated).

In this primer they are touched upon briefly and the reasons cited for not running counter magic are that "in this deck they don't help get Griselbrand in the yard, and we usually don't have the mana open for Pierce, or the blue count for Force".

To break down these arguments I'd suggest that the first one - the fact that cabal therapy and thoughtseize can be used to bin a Griselbrand from our hand which a counterspell obviously cannot - is much less relevant in a deck running only 2 Griselbrands than in a deck running 4 Griselbrands which, I believe, was more en vogue during the time of the genesis of the deck. With 2 we are much less likely to get one into our hand and will therefore need a discard outlet to discard ourselves more rarely too.

To keep a mana open for Pierce is a big no no. I'll agree with that. No Spell Pierces thanks. But Daze? It helps protect us while comboing and will often be able to help us get there as we tend to combo during the early turns. It also helps us towards the last point which was that we need a high enough blue count.

In the list that I'm testing my blue count is 17 with the forces. Not the highest in the world, but high enough to be valid imo.

Now why run Force and Daze? I personally feel like it's a very powerful line of protection and helps make the deck more resilient. Reanimator runs the same disruption package as I do and their combo enabler is very similar. Granted they need counter magic to ride Griselbrand to victory over the course of several turns whereas we'll just win on the spot making counter magic less necessary. But just because it is more of a necessity in Reanimator doesn't mean it's not the right choice for us.

Anyway, I could be talking out of my ass and I'm not saying this is the way to go for sure or anything, but I'm trying it out and have so far tested against some guys in my playgroup to some success. As you can see I've trimmed the Silences from the mainboard as 1 or 2 just felt a bit too random for my taste. I've also kept in 3x discard in the shape of Cabal Therapy as I recognize that card's power, both in terms of binning a creature from our hand, casting after an attack by emrakul to then get emmy back into the library and of course to take stuff from my opponent's hand.

Here's my list:

4x Dark Ritual
4x Entomb
4x Shallow Grave
3x Goryo's Vengeance
3x Cabal Therapy
2x Griselbrand
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Reanimate
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
3x Daze
3x Ponder
3x Gitaxian Probe
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4x Lotus Petal
1x Chrome Mox
1x Children of Korlis
2x Underground Sea
2x Tundra
1x Island
1x Swamp
4x Polluted Delta
3x Flooded Strand
1x Marsh Flats

Sideboard:
3x Massacre
3x Pithing Needle
2x Serenity
3x Chain of Vapor
1x Echoing Truth
3x Silence

I'd love to hear some thoughts :)

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Daze is just bad in a deck with 12-14 lands. Discard on yourself is more relevant Than You are giving credit. Its for after the combo has begun; drawing emrakul often happens after 3-4 griselbrand activations. You must have a way to get that Emmy into the graveyard. I don't think countering disruption is a viable option, especially with all the tempo, midrange and combo In the metagame. Discard provides information as well as utility.

-ABC

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[nevilshute]

Daze is just bad in a deck with 12-14 lands. Discard on yourself is more relevant Than You are giving credit. Its for after the combo has begun; drawing emrakul often happens after 3-4 griselbrand activations. You must have a way to get that Emmy into the graveyard. I don't think countering disruption is a viable option, especially with all the tempo, midrange and combo In the metagame. Discard provides information as well as utility.

-ABC

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I've tried to factor in the issue of enough islands for Daze to be viable. That factoring has basically resulted in swapping the Scrubland for a second Tundra. 5 out of my 6 lands are islands that way.

Arguing that 14 lands is too low to make Daze viable is not, strictly speaking, correct imo. RUG-delver, the quintessential Daze deck, effectively only runs 14 lands as 4 out of their 18 are Wastelands. That leaves them with 14 lands, 8 of which are fetches. They are then left with 6 islands, we have 5. Just how significant that difference is I don't know. Alternatively we could scimp on the basic swamp and run 3 Underground Seas. I might try that out if I find that the one basic swamp is messing up my Daze plan, but more testing is needed for now.

[.dk]

Discard on yourself is more relevant Than You are giving credit. Its for after the combo has begun; drawing emrakul often happens after 3-4 griselbrand activations. You must have a way to get that Emmy into the graveyard.

This. In a deck with only 4 entombs, you need a way to get Children of Korlis or Emrakul into the yard after drawing with Griselbrand. Sometimes you don't draw entomb (which was my problem on Sunday). Of course, sometimes you don't draw any of them... so yeah.

If you're running counters as protection, I feel that Careful Study becomes a must-have to serve the same purpose during combo. This also bolsters your blue count for Force of Will. However... as nevilshute mentioned - we're really only running 2-3 good targets for Careful Study to begin with, which makes the card much weaker in general.

This was the line of thought we originally took a year ago when we were running 4 Griselbrands - the protection suite in the earliest incarnations of the deck was Force of Will, and Careful Study was definitely needed to provide the blue count. But even then, Careful Study and Force of Will were both pretty mediocre. Self discard was much more relevant when running more Griselbrands (pre-combo), and served as more protection anyway.

My biggest issue with this deck at the moment is that it is so all in on Entomb in the current configuration, but we only get to run 4. LDV helps with this, but a lot of times by the time you can cast LDV, it's too late. Same with Snapcaster. Can we have Mystical Tutor back please?

Also - haven't tested SCM yet - have only been back from DC for a day, and I didn't have them with me while I was at the event.

[cogitoergosum]

Can they just print us a black merchant scroll?

[.dk]

That would work. :)

[Koby]

I'd be happy with Demonic Tutor, but that's likely too good.

[P-E]

vampiric is fine enough to me no need of demonic ^^
ah good old times when 4 vampiric were standard legal

[Acclimation]

I've been loving LDV more and more recently, to the point where I give it priority over other cantrips if I can cast it. I've been in situations where I have a hand with 2 cantrips, LDV, a land or two, dark rit, and then either reanimation or entomb, needing that last piece to go off. For awhile, I would go for my second cantrip immediately on t2, in hopes that I can luck sack into that missing piece and go off that turn, and had moderate success with this strategy. However, the games where that didn't happen were often horribly awful or took longer to win. On the flipside, burning my LDV on t2 often found me the piece that I needed and potentially a solid stack depending on my hand, resulting in a t3 win.

It should be obvious, taking the slower, but precise path over the cheaper #YOLOSWAGHOPEIGETTHERE lucksack game plan, but it did take me longer than I should have to actually do that.

LDV isn't perfect, but at 2 mana, what else is there? Infernal Tutor isn't an option, since LED doesn't play too well with the current list, and other options to get hellbent are fairly awful.

We can go turbo bad and play Time of Need and more discard effects! Green isn't a hard splash, and gives us cool cards such as Carpet of Flowers, Abrupt Decay, and Reverent Silence.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I dunno. My list hasn't changed in over a week, maybe 2. I'm happy with it. SCM made it for me. I have always gone LDV before anything else unless I have a very good reason to not.

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[Ferrarix]

Hello
Thanks to Takichoma, I am playing the deck for 3 weeks now.
I was playing an aggro reanimator of my self then I moved slots with 2 goryo s and two shallow.
After the bom I ve decided to go further on and to build a more competitive deck.
So here is my list of tin fit with some counters
The mains idea is to protect your self and increase the chance to go first or second turn
I ve done some turn 1 kills was fun but I really have a problem with the side

TIN FINS COUNTER
Manabase /13
1 island
1 swamp
2 polluted delta
2 underground sea
1 verdant catacombs
1 bayou
1 marsh flats
1 plateau
2 bloodstained mire
1 badlands

4 lotus petal
2 chrome mox

4 dark ritual
4 brainstorm
2 ponder ( I ve tried more but it wasn t good at all)
2 lim dul s vault ( very good card)

4 entomb
4 shallow grave
3 goryo s vengeance
1 reanimate

4 daze (helps you protect against tendrils and discard on fow when toss has been lost and protect your combo against fow
2 force of will (tes and ant)
1 silence (protection)

1 sensei s divining top (can be good with fetch at all)

1 children of korlis
1 emrakul the aeons torn
2 griselbrand
1 putrid imp (only two discards so it helps when you draw em ra or grisel)

2 thougtseize

1 grapeshot (alternative kill in main)
1 tendrils of agony ( alternative kill in main)


Sideboard
4 abrupt decay
11 slots engineered plague (elves merfolk nemesis)

[nevilshute]

Took Tin Fins to a tournament for the first time on the weekend. Entered a legacy sideevent (18 players) at a Theros Sealed PTQ.

Went 4-1 and got 40$ worth of store credit which was nice :)

Rnd 1: Won 2-0 against Affinity

Rnd 2: Won 2-0 against Lands

Rnd 3: Lost 1-2 against Jund

Rnd 4: Won 2-0 against UB Omniclash

Rnd 5: Won 2-1 against Combo Elves

I played a version with Force of Will and Daze in place of some discard and silence effects. It was only really relevant in the Omniclash matchup where I was able to combo off on turn two through a force with my own force which was nice.

The round I lost was a bit of a bummer as I would have liked to beat Jund even if it's not quite as easy a matchup for combo decks as some like to make it out to be.

Game 1 I win convincingly as I have it on turn 1. Game 2 I mulligan to 5 and eventually settle on a hand that is missing both protection and one half of the combo. He lands a Scavinging Ooze on turn two and even though I pick up a Chain of Vapor I'm still missing a combo piece. Then comes the discard and I don't recover. At one point I discard him and see he is holding a Surgical Extraction too. Game 3 I have a hand with Entomb, 2 Shallow Grave, 2 lands, brainstorm and daze. I go land go, he goes land go. EoT I entomb for Griselbrand and am thinking as long as he isn't holding a Surgical Extraction I win now... unfortunately he does have an extraction and also plays around daze. I still feel it was the right thing to go off there... odds are greater that he doesn't have it and I am bound to get discarded sooner or later anyway if I wait.

Was a lot of fun to play the deck (especially funny to hear the Omniclash player moan about how BORING it was to sit and watch me go off - because it's a lot of fun to watch your opponent cast enter the infinite, right). Will definitely be bringing it again :)

For reference this is my list:

4x Dark Ritual
4x Entomb
4x Shallow Grave
3x Goryo's Vengeance
3x Cabal Therapy
2x Griselbrand
1x Reanimate
1x Tendrils of Agony
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
3x Daze
3x Ponder
3x Gitaxian Probe
4x Lotus Petal
1x Chrome Mox
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Children of Korlis
4x Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
2x Underground Sea
2x Tundra
1x Island
1x Swamp

4x Silence
3x Massacre
3x Pithing Needle
3x Chain of Vapor
2x Serenity