[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)

[Lemnear]

Oops, just copypasted straight from The Council without even noticing. What is the list supposed to be?

Yeah, the Teeg/Thalia thing was a weak example. It was tough coming up with something helpful that wasn't also pedantically obvious.

As far as i have seen, he did not play Preordain so these should be the brainstorms and he finished either 3rd or 4th

[bjholmes3]

That makes sense. Also, he finished 3rd. 2nd was a brain-fart on my part, can't blame The Council for that one, lol.

Anyways, updated the primer outline, fixing issues and adding a mana accel section.

[Zombie]

Neither the list nor the placing is correct. Greetings

Link to the correct list? BoM site also lists it as playing Ponder and Preordain.

EDIT: Also maybe with the new primer we should start to push for a new name for the deck, because it sure as hell isn't an Ad Nauseam deck anymore. Storm, Fetchland Tendrils, something. Something not named after one of the worst cards in the deck.

[bjholmes3]

We should call it Preordain Storm.

Updated post with Business spell section. This is exhausting.

[Lemnear]

Link to the correct list? BoM site also lists it as playing Ponder and Preordain.

EDIT: Also maybe with the new primer we should start to push for a new name for the deck, because it sure as hell isn't an Ad Nauseam deck anymore. Storm, Fetchland Tendrils, something. Something not named after one of the worst cards in the deck.

The mistake is based on the wrong listing on the BoM site. Nobody seems to care

[Mon,Goblin Chief]

Hi everybody, thanks for the confidence! :) To get the bad news out of the way first, I won't be able to do a primer for the thread. Between my articles and and my master thesis, I really don't have time for another solid piece of writing at the moment (and I refuse to do half-assed work). Feel free to hit me up in a couple of months if you don't get anything done that you're happy with until then.
Happily, it seems someone is taking up the reigns anyway (good work, holmes! - I've always wanted to say that ;) ). I'll make sure to follow how that sweet primer evolves and will give any feedback I think might be useful. Feel free to link to my articles, by the way. I think the storm games ones should be useful to transmit a feel for how the deck plays out and the very first one (about storm) should have a lot of the basics covered (it was called "the Cabal Rises", if memory serves).

[bjholmes3]

Good stuff. The idea was for me to get all the mundane stuff out of the way so you (and the other pros, really) could take a little time to throw in some juicy bits without being bogged down with all the work of writing a primer.

Updated post, added a Sideboard options section. Now that that's done, it's time for matchup analyses and sideboard options to get written. I'll need help with this one. Cockatrice has not helped me learn SB technique very well. I wonder why that is?

[nevilshute]

Good job Holmes :)

[Jonathan Alexander]

I am going to write about Storm again this week, so are there any questions you guys feel need to be answered but aren't really primer-material? (This basically boils down to current problems rather than broader subjects.)

[Tammit67]

I am going to write about Storm again this week, so are there any questions you guys feel need to be answered but aren't really primer-material? (This basically boils down to current problems rather than broader subjects.)

Current problem: TNN decks need fewer cards in board to answer other fair matchups they previously had to worry about, and now can prepare for the unfair section of the meta more easily. See: 4x meddling mage out of GP DC winning list. How can storm adapt if it needs to?

[Lemnear]

Current problem: TNN decks need fewer cards in board to answer other fair matchups they previously had to worry about, and now can prepare for the unfair section of the meta more easily. See: 4x meddling mage out of GP DC winning list. How can storm adapt if it needs to?

First step should be replacing the Duress slots with Thoughtseize to handle the rise of the hatebears in the Esperblades, Patriots, etc. so you are not completely dependent to find your CoV/Decays/etc. and have more outs against such stuff. It's not that Ad Nauseam is MB material anymore

[Jonathan Alexander]

Current problem: TNN decks need fewer cards in board to answer other fair matchups they previously had to worry about, and now can prepare for the unfair section of the meta more easily. See: 4x meddling mage out of GP DC winning list. How can storm adapt if it needs to?

It's funny you mention exactly this, because Owen's sideboard is actually the reason I am thinking about how to adjust Storm. I don't care much for Legacy right now as I won't get to play it again until GP Paris in February, but I think the current fair deck sideboard situation is really interesting.

[Sloshthedark]

MM is one of the better hatebears, no stifle, no Cannonist, I'm fine playing vs that list... I'm more worried about Golgari charm and other indirect sweepers needed to battle TNN in the metagame that step into the EtW plan...

to answer previous question +thoughtseize (2 is a limit for the deck I think), diversified removal... maybe you'll like the Bolt after all ;)

[Koby]

My understanding of the ANT vs W/x hatebears is that there are really two main options:

Virtue's Ruin at (Toxic Deluge also fits, but more restrictive in casting from life payment)
Massacre at (effective), but not all encompassing since it's neutered by Gaddock Teeg.

Anything else is just weaker than these options. Sometimes, Massacre cannot interact with Canonist + Sword of X/Y profitably. Other time, Thalia makes casting Virtue's Ruin an exercise in frustration. I'm more inclined to have Massacre vs UW, and Virtue's Ruin vs GW/x due the lack of Gaddock Teeg from UW. Oddly enough, Thalia makes that more rewarding the other way, but that's the way it is.

Pyroclasm is a close approximation, and while cheaper than Virtue's Ruin, also cannot interact with an equipped hate-bear. Additionally, it's still cold to Mother of Runes + hate bear as seen from times to times from Maverick, Bant, D&T, and some Junk decks.

[davelin]

4 Dread of Night!

[Koby]

Seems ambitious against Canonist, Gaddock Teeg, and Meddling Mage. While it answers Thalia perfectly fine, you need to both warp the sideboard to accommodate it, and need to find a 2nd copy before you can proceed to the Combo step. Against the blue variations of White hate-bear decks, this also means resolving it through countermagic. I suppose any anti-white creature card suffers that dilemma, but having to resolve multiple pieces to beat Meddling Mage/Canonist, well that becomes an even tougher challenge.

[Tammit67]

4 Dread of Night!

After Ari lax won legacy champs with death and taxes, dreads have been my go to hate card along with the standard chains and abrupt decay. It isn't a card I want against UW though.

EDIT: Perhaps Europe is still in another world from the US meta, but Ad Nauseum is almost necessary main to combat the decks that try to strip our hand then negate our GY that are still abundant at least here on the East Coast. In particular, Jund, Junk, Team America, Shardless BUG, Dark maverick, some Elves draws, Esper stoneblade, Esper Deathblade are all decks that have the potential to make me want to run out all of my LEDs asap and wait to top deck a tutor and just kill them.

Perhaps I'm taking the wrong lines of play here, but it is a lot harder to play the 'find the tutor' game to combo off when best engine in past in flames is smothered by deathrite and the discard prevents having the rituals to properly tutor chain.

I played with Empty main over Ad naus at GP DC and punted my way out of day 2. There a handful of points across the 4 rounds I played where I wish the empty main was Ad naus (and in fact I lost game 2 of round 4 because I didn't board it in like an idiot)

[davelin]

Seems ambitious against Canonist, Gaddock Teeg, and Meddling Mage. While it answers Thalia perfectly fine, you need to both warp the sideboard to accommodate it, and need to find a 2nd copy before you can proceed to the Combo step. Against the blue variations of White hate-bear decks, this also means resolving it through countermagic. I suppose any anti-white creature card suffers that dilemma, but having to resolve multiple pieces to beat Meddling Mage/Canonist, well that becomes an even tougher challenge.

Snapcaster Mage when they attack with their Mage/Canonist

[Koby]

Perhaps I'm taking the wrong lines of play here, but it is a lot harder to play the 'find the tutor' game to combo off when best engine in past in flames is smothered by deathrite and the discard prevents having the rituals to properly tutor chain.

The last time I tinkered with ANT lists, and keeping track of matchups, I was about 35% against FoW decks, and about 55% against the format as a whole. I think the post is buried somewhere from late December 2012 or January 2013. Anyways, the DeathBlade lists were a real problem due to what you're describing. Maybe he's time to set aside ANT for a faster deck?

[JamieW89]

Link to the correct list? BoM site also lists it as playing Ponder and Preordain.

EDIT: Also maybe with the new primer we should start to push for a new name for the deck, because it sure as hell isn't an Ad Nauseam deck anymore. Storm, Fetchland Tendrils, something. Something not named after one of the worst cards in the deck.

Funnily enough I put Fetchland Tendrils on my decklist at BoM, they chose to name it ANT though.

Regarding AdN/EtW: I'd play Ad Nauseam right now over here because of the large amount of combo decks (the last Dutch tournament easily had over 50% combo). I'm fine without AdN main versus Jund-esque decks though, although I definately sideboard it in if it's not already there.

Regarding hate: DDFT seems better fit in a world filled with hatebears and gy hate (DRS and the fact that Dredge did well in DC). UBr seems fine unless there is a lot of storm/stifle/snares. Sadly that deck has a really weak Sneak & Derp matchup, which is way too popular over here :(. Maybe TES works too, but it just feels much less consistent.