Miracle Control

[warai]

Most of the time, when you cast entreat you put no less than 2 angels on the Battlefield.
This way you finish effectively the game in 1-3 turns after you established control.
You run other Snapcaster/Clique and sometimes they acts as finishers but your ideal scenario G1 is Jace kill or EtA kill.

TNN is a more grindy card and it isn't a finisher in miracles. It takes lots of turns for him to kill your opponent, which means he can be back in the game with the extra turns given.

Also another reason to avoid running TNN MB is you want to be able to cast a Terminus and not worry about what is on the table, which means you don't want to remove your own TNN.

I will definitely try 2 TNN SB to act as a blocking creature - Batterskull/Goyf, but in no way it will act as a consistent finisher.

I might be wrong.

Alright guys, I'm gonna go there. TNN - yep, you heard me right.. The idea of giving this blue idiot a miraculous spin has been lurking in the back of my mind for a while now and was tenaciously discarded - until today.
I'm going to try to keep this short just so that the TNN haters don't have to puke all over their screens and keyboards more than twice.

Feels like a dejavu, doesn't it? Some of you might recall the Tarmo hype back in the day when everyone started implementing Lhurgoyfs into any kind of archetypes - heck even Goblins and Landstill! My initial inspiration to try this rather dumb approach dates back a little further though, namely 15 years to a dude from Urza's Saga.

Any educated blue Control player probably was reminded of Morphling when TNN got spoiled. But before I briefly dip into a comparison, let me assure you that I'm aware that times have changed and there are some actual reasons Morphling is not being played anymore. Anywho, let's list some specs.

Mr. M.	Mr. N.
CMC 5 sort of flying semi-shroud can cause up to 5 dmg / turn blocks dudes up to 4 power and lives to tell the tale	CMC 3 unblockable shroud will cause at least 3 dmg / turn blocks a 20/20 KotR like a champ

Alright cool, so TNN wins this comparison handily, but does that really warrant testing in Miracles.dec, which never gave a damn about Mr. M in the first place? And even if so, what among the ultra tight 75 could ever be cut for TNN's sake?
Well there's 1 spell that's an obvious candidate: EtA. And while I'm aware that those heavenly tokens have become a vital part of the core, both spells fulfill similar roles - so let's compare them real quick:

EtA	Mr. N.
at least CMC 3 including WW requires setup aka Top but can be cast at instant speed terrible earlygame OK midgame superb lategame Spell Piercable flying --------------------- can end the game in one turn	max. CMC 3 (on-colour) ------------------- ------------------- OK earlygame good midgame OK lategame -------------------- unblockable, shroud pitchable to FoW will end the game in a grindier way

I have to admit TNN does not win that comparison really, but does he lose? Maybe - only testing will tell. This is the list that I'm going to give a spin tonight:

4 BS
4 FoW
4 CB
4 Top
4 Jace
4 STP
2 Terminus
2 Supreme Verdict
2 CS
3 TNN
1 Vendilion Clique
1 EtA
1 EE
[37]

23 awesome mana sources

SB:
3 RiP
3 REB
2 Canonist
2 Wear/Tear
2 Pithing Needle
2 Terminus
1 meta slot

Thanks for your patience. I'll let you know about my testing stuff soon.
Now let the bashing begin :)

[YamiJoey]

I've never actually been to a foreign tournament, but since my sister lives in Paris, I'm really thinking about that one. Is there likely to be any sort of language barrier type problem?

You'll be fine. Europe is a cool place, and city centres are easy enough to navigate.

[klaus]

Most of the time, when you cast entreat you put no less than 2 angels on the Battlefield.
This way you finish effectively the game in 1-3 turns after you established control.
You run other Snapcaster/Clique and sometimes they acts as finishers but your ideal scenario G1 is Jace kill or EtA kill.

All of the above is correct. The advantage TNN has over EtA though is that he comes down and has an impact on the board position much earlier, while not being susceptible to Pierce, which is actually a major plus given the future meta, featuring more and more blue tempo strategies.

Also another reason to avoid running TNN MB is you want to be able to cast a Terminus and not worry about what is on the table, which means you don't want to remove your own TNN.

That's actually an argument in favor of TNN: good players won't overextend against Miracles, and hold back creatures to follow up on a sweeper. However TNN forces them to do exactly that, which completely mitigates the point of card disadvantage.

[Poron]

overall the only counters that see actual play are Pierce, Daze and FoW (+ random Counterspell)

if you can play around Daze, you only fear FoW (and we pack our 4 too...)

EtA is both mana intensive and Spell Pierceable

[warai]

You normally cast EtA with counter backup or established board control.
It doesn't matter if it is mana intensive on a deck with so much filtering. It is rare for you to miss a land drop.

overall the only counters that see actual play are Pierce, Daze and FoW (+ random Counterspell)

if you can play around Daze, you only fear FoW (and we pack our 4 too...)

EtA is both mana intensive and Spell Pierceable

[klaus]

You normally cast EtA with counter backup or established board control.
It doesn't matter if it is mana intensive on a deck with so much filtering. It is rare for you to miss a land drop.

So let's just add Emrakul, since CMC does not matter, cause we hardly ever miss a land drop.
Kidding aside, irl you will have to wait forever to able to safely cast EtA against the increasing amount of decks packing Pierce/Daze, unless you're desperate and it's your only out.
That being said, I'm hesitant to push this idea further before being able to present thorough test results. All I was trying to get across atm, is that it looks like it could be cool.

[Poron]

another thing is that decks that follow mana denial strategy are increasing in amount.
DnT is always more common, RUG and URW packs 4 Wasteland and often Stifle too...

against those decks it might be safe to side out EtA for more Clique / TNN / SnapMage

[Aetherick]

Replacing Clique or Entreat with True Name nemesis will probably make the deck a lot weaker to any Liliana deck.

Tapping out to play it makes you just lose to a Liliana.

When Liliana is ticking up, if you find an entreat (she's dead) or a Clique (you have a chance to flash it in and hit her loyalty).
True Name Nemesis will only ever buy you 2 loyalty as he will die instantly.

[Poron]

unless it is played alongside Clique, unless you side it in when you're not against decks which might play Liliana and Toxic Deluge or Golgari Charm...

[Aetherick]

If you're not using it against any midrange bgx deck what is this card for? delver decks? goblins? merfolk?
Besides RUG, they can all get past a single blocker (that can't block flying) easily.

[Poron]

don't know. It kills Mongoose and chump blocks Tarmogoyf next turn.

ah yes, 4 StP are a thing.

[YamiJoey]

The card is a poor excuse for a Moat as far as I can tell. I just don't think it does anything. It is simply never better than a Clique or Venser as far as I can tell, and they are not on the top of everyone's lists.

[Poron]

against some deck, in my opinion, it can make the difference. Anyway, just testing will tell..

[mith]

Has anyone tried out Runed Halo as a versatile and quick answer to TNN? As a one-of in the board, it can come in versus quite a few matchups.

[alphastryk]

Has anyone tried out Runed Halo as a versatile and quick answer to TNN? As a one-of in the board, it can come in versus quite a few matchups.

Just play a Moat.

[Cipher]

don't know. It kills Mongoose and chump blocks Tarmogoyf next turn.

ah yes, 4 StP are a thing.

This is a good point. It could be a Sulfur Elemental style card that can come in against "fair" decks. Running it maindeck sounds weak, since it would be dead cards 9-12 against Combo decks (I know it attacks for damage, but without Cliques ETB trigger, it's just a 3/1).

It's definitely weaker than Moat, but Moat is $300 and can be Spell Pierce'd.

[Valtrix]

This is a good point. It could be a Sulfur Elemental style card that can come in against "fair" decks. Running it maindeck sounds weak, since it would be dead cards 9-12 against Combo decks (I know it attacks for damage, but without Cliques ETB trigger, it's just a 3/1)..

This is true, but can also be a little deceptive. If True-Name Nemesis is replacing non-blue cards, then the fact that TNN is blue is actually useful against combo, because you can save all your other blue cards (which are relevant against combo!) to actually cast and not pitch to force of will. Not really a strong argument either way for the card, but I think it's worth noting because running cards which can handle creatures and are blue themselves (I've been using Strix) really does give a noticeable amount of more flexibility when casting force of will, compared to running things that aren't blue in its place.

I don't really think TNN is great for strictly Miracles, but I've really been considering an esperblade/miracles hybrid lately, taking my favorite parts from both of the decks. I don't really get to play much, so I won't really be able to test, but I would consider something like:

//16 Win-cons
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Baleful Strix
2 True-Name Nemesis
4 Entreat the Angels
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

//21 Spells
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Counterbalance
4 Sensei's Divining top
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of will
4 Swords to plowshares

//23 Land
4 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
1 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Flooded Strand
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Marsh Flats
6 Island
1 Plains
1 Karakas/Other

Which looks pretty powerful to me. I think something like this would be a bit more appropriate if you want a Miracle-type build with TNN, since I think he really compliments a SFM-approach more than the standard miracles list. Even without running TNN, and running some other blue utility creature, I still really like the idea of a list like this.

Compared to traditional miracles you cut some of your hard answers (Terminus, Counterspell, etc.) for some soft answers (Batterskull, TNN, strix) which will double as your win-conditions. Overall you have a much higher threat density, but all of your threats here will help you defensively too. Another thing that I really like about this list is 4 Entreats, because I believe that it's one of the most powerful cards we can run. Here, 4 Entreat makes sense compared to traditional Miracle lists, because you only have 4 miracles to worry about ever clogging your draws. Plus, there are a lot of creature removal targets, so you don't really feel too bad about one of a few creatures in your list getting killed and there's not really a question of generating virtual card advantage by not running (m)any creatures. Where this is particularly relevant in my opinion is in making mini-entreats. It's much safer with all your other cards, so you can make some instant speed angels to try and create advantage/board impact much sooner than you might have felt comfortable with otherwise.

Although this is perhaps a bit far from a miracles list, such and idea really interests me. I haven't tested a list like this, but if I were to have an upcoming tournament, I would probably test and (assuming pretty good testing) play a list somewhat close to what I put above.

[YamiJoey]

I may look into playing something UWR-esque that plays Countertop and stuff like Thunderous Wrath, and possibly Bonfires. More of an aggressive Miracles strategy than we're used to.

But of course it's probably terrible.

[Poron]

This is a good point. It could be a Sulfur Elemental style card that can come in against "fair" decks. Running it maindeck sounds weak, since it would be dead cards 9-12 against Combo decks (I know it attacks for damage, but without Cliques ETB trigger, it's just a 3/1).

It's definitely weaker than Moat, but Moat is $300 and can be Spell Pierce'd.

this.

it can be spell pierced. and with Daze and Fow that's the only counter I actually see every day.

Daze is easy to play around and FoW can be Pierced/etc. in many matchups, high cc non creature cards, are very weak.

Against RUG or URW (4 Wasteland, 4 Stifle, 4 Daze 3-4 Pierce) Jace and Moat are almost helpless... as is EtA. To have a better matchup we should go TNN in those matchup (imho)

Sulfur Elemental is another good piece against DnT for the same reason.

[YamiJoey]

Who the hell is resolving 1CC Instants when we're actually trying to cast our Entreats? As far as I was aware Entreat was mostly being used as a finisher. We're not tapping out at 5 for it, we're making 4 Angels and leaving up additional mana for countermagic and things.

Unless that's just me. I mean walk into Spell Pierces if you want but I'm going to play real Magic.

TNN does almost nothong against UWR except race. 10 out of their 11 threats cannot be blocked by it, so I'm not sure what it's doing there. Seems okay against RUG Delver, I'll give you that, though. There we just have to worry about Delverd once we can actually resolve a TNN.