I think a 3/1 split of tseize and inquisition is optimal so I'd go with that. You board out fows against tempo decks and maybe some amount of jace. I always had good results with that. Against patriot just board in zealous persecution/supreme verdict, some flusterstorm if you got spot. Don't keep in fows it's the worst vs them, esp when they run so many spell pierce etc.
Deathblade and Blade Control/Stoneblade decks are different decks with different goals in mind. There is a Deathblade thread if you want to discuss DRS there, but here is not the place.Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
I think TNN is great in UW and UWB Stoneblade. However is anyone playing UWR blade? I play 3 Grim Lavamancers as my extra creatures instead of TNN. Also more Snapcasters because they are really good with Bolts and Swords. I'm currently not running any TNN because my 3 drop spot is loaded with 3 Clique and 4 Snapcasters. I can't cut Clique because unlike UWB, I don't have that much disruption and I would rather not cut Snapcasters because the card is really good with Bolts, STP, Brainstorm and Spell Pierce.
I think TNN is great in general, but in a TNN vs Grim discussion which would you pick for board dominance? I like how cheap Grim Lavamancer is and it can really win you the game for 1 mana. I don't like having a Clog at the 3 drop and I want my 3 drops to be good against Combo and Control.
I wasn't playing Grim Lavamancer before TNN was legal, since I found it subpar and prefered instant removal / Supreme Verdict / E.E. So my choice is simple: TNN > Grim.
Other reasons why I don't like Grim Lavamancer:
- I prefer a light red splash for 2-3 REB, Sulfur Elemental, and Blood Moon in the SB
- I'm trying to reduce my graveyard dependency to bring RiP post-board. This means my only GY-dependent cards are 2 Snapcaster and 1 Academy Ruin.
4 Thoughtseize is fine if you're on 0 snapcasters
3/1 if you're on 1-2 snapcasters
2/2 split if you're on 2-3 snapcasters
I'm running zero sweepers and pretty heavy red in the main deck for Grims and bolts. I have no double white cards and I can't run them since I consistently need 3 colours. I'm also on the surgical plan post board. I just fry DRS and Goyfs with my removal when they come down. Yea I guess it's different builds. Grim has been really solid for me in the same way how it is great in Patriot Blade. It just takes over the board if unanswered and for the low price of 1 mana.
Why is verdict not used more? When I play blade I seem to want more verdict but it seems the majority runs 0-1. It is live more so than mot and can be used in occasional combo games either they are having a bad time or your disrupting them enough to slow them down. Its also blue which is relevant because a good number of list run 3 FoW instead of 4. So I was just wondering why it seems to get passed up a lot.
Some people *do* play Verdict in Blade Control:
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/...de_with_j.html
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=60141
When playing UWr Blade Control, I like having 1 E.E. and 1 Supreme Verdict main, and another Verdict in the side.
After going 3-6 in GP DC I think its time to ask for some help with this deck
R1: 2-1 Elves (Izzet Staticaster blows him out in G2 and G3 especially when it hits double dryad arbor)
R2: UW stoneblade with TNN (Not enough removals)
R3: Jund (land screw g3)
R4: UW stoneblade with TNN (Not enough removals)
R5: Esper Death-Blade (tight play and a million angels, well like 6 win g3)
R6: UW stoneblade with TNN (Not enough removals)
R7: NO OPPONENT SHOWS UP
R8: Merfolk with TNN (frustration with TNN)
R9: DROP
updated list below:
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
1 Karakas
2 Plains
4 Polluted Delta
2 Arid Mesa
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell
3 Counterbalance
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Terminus
1 Moat
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Entreat the Angels
Board:
2 Flusterstorm
3 Pyroblast
1 Wear // Tear
2 Rest in Peace
1 Blood Moon
2 Pithing Needle
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Force of Will
1 Terminus
Have board plans available upon request. Only 2 RIP's may be questionable. I still like blood moon vs. bug and delver decks.
Wrong thread. That list belongs here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ontrol/page179
Um, looks like you meant to post this in the UWr Miracles thread?
Here are my reports for the BoM Paris tournaments: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...-2-BoM9-Trial)
It also contains a discussion of the UWr AngelBlade list Piceli89 advised me to play.
hi averyone!
i would share my current list of stoneblade:
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Baleful Strix
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 True-Name Nemesis
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Ponder
1 Supreme Verdict
4 Thoughtseize
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Batterskull
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Umezawa's Jitte Lands [22]
1 Academy Ruin
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Karakas
1Scrubland
2 Island
1 Plains
4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
4 Flooded Strand
3 Tundra
1 Glacial fortress
side
3 Flusterstorm
4 Meddling Mage
2 Rest in Peace
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Sword of fire and ice
1 Disenchant
3 Zealous persecution
i need a few advices...the only card which i'm not sure is Strix...i mean, nemesis maybe do the same (block any creature) and for that could switch 2 strix for +1ponder and +1vindicate (is a main answer for other equip of our oppenent when we play a mirror)
what do you think about it? let me know please :)
I played a similiar main deck a couple of weeks ago in a small local tournament (17 players, ended up 3rd) with -2 Clique -1 Ponder -1 Verdict -1 Fortress +1 Counterspell +1 Spell Pierce +1 Vindicate +1 SoFI +1 Marsh Flats.
I liked Strix very much, not only it replaces itself and is a nice blocker but can also present a serious threat with any equipment (not to mention it can be brought back from the grave with Ruins).
you don't need tarpit AND glacial fortress
You're too light on graveyard hate, 3 pieces is the lightest I would go
I've actually dropped black completely, in the world of TNN its so important to have a higher life total when the TNNs come down and the damage race goes into full gear.
3 zealous persecution is excessive, you have 2 snapcasters so 2 is enough
Hi, played in tourney this weekend(43pple),split in final :
4 Flooded strand
4 Polluted delta
2 Marsh flats
3 Underground sea
3 Tundra
1 Scrubland
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 karakas
3 Jace,the mind sculptor
4 Stoneforge mystic
3 Snapcaster mage
2 Vendilion clique
3 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of kozilek
3 Force of will
2 Spell pierce
1 Counterspell
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
4 Swords to plowshares
2 Lingering souls
1 Supreme verdict
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa’s jitte
1 Sword of feast and famine
---------------------------------------
1 Force of will
2 Flusterstorm
2 Duress
2 Meddling mage
1 Notion thief
1 Engineered explosives
2 Zealous persecution
2 Perish
1 Vindicate
1 Supreme verdict
R1 2-0 Affinity
R2 2-1 uwr tempo
R3 1-1 shardless bug
R4 2-0 omnitell
R5 1-2 shardless bug
R6 2-1 sneak attack
QF 2-0 elves!
SF 2-1 Esperblade(tnn)
Split with Shardless BUG
I didn't play any GY hate because I didn't expect alot of Ichorid etx. In a bigger event I'd prabably play some(although surgical extractions wont do it,need RIP).
I dont play TNN in here because I feel ur weakening ur combo MU's too much and if u play TNN its best with DRS. But the supreme verdict md was there to help out. Zealous persecution as always MVP and best tool to deal with TNN while also being great against Elves,DxT,..
Greetings-
I agree. Here's my current list:
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 True-Name Nemesis
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Brainstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Counterspell
2 Izzet Charm
3 Force of Will
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Academy Ruins
4 Flooded Strand
1 Mystic gate
3 Island
1 Karakas
1 Mountain
2 Plains
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
SB:
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Flusterstorm
1 Force of Will
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Pithing Needle
1 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Rest in Peace
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Wear // Tear
You don't need Grim when you run enough spot removal especially now that True-Name Nemesis is a thing since you don't really care about creatures blocking yours. You just don't want your opponents board presence to get out of hand.
I'm really surprised at the lack of UWr Stoneblade decks to be honest. I really like the way this deck runs. You have main deck spot removal for almost everything but most importantly plainswalkers! The new legend rule change has made all plainswalkers a lot more difficult to kill. And we currently see a surge in fair decks running walkers. The 4 bolts main deck kill all but Elspeth (which hardly any deck runs but I do!) add the snapcasters to that kill count and you're up at six already. More importantly this deck let's you board in 1/2 pyro/redblasts after game 1. Allowing you to counter Jace, Show and Tell AND True-Name Nemesis. I really do not like the esper lists all that much to be honest. The discard black adds in my opinion is not going to cut it against all the decks that will protect their important cards with brainstorm or simply top-deck them mid to late game. I know the discard is primarily meant to combat combo decks but if you run additional counters main deck and add the REB's and flusters post board you'll do well against most of them. I've played this deck against Deathblade and Esper control blade lists and I really have no problem beating any of them. I also tested it online against Sneak and show and ANT and against both decks especially post board I felt quite favored. Rug can be a bit more difficult at times as the manabase can get screwed over with well timed wastes and stifles. The UWR delver match up on the other hand (now that they shifted away from stifle) is better but just be wary of the extra pierces they run.
Too be honest I really feel like this deck is what the UWR delver list should be. Running stoneforge mystic in a tight delver package just doesn't seem optimal. If the mystic gets bolted or plowed or if something happens to the germ you have a late game card in your hand or in play that you can't use effectively which does not help you play the tempo game where your dazes and pierces are active. You really do need 5 mana to use stoneforge as optimal as possible. This deck on the other hand want's to play the late game it wants to hit that 5+ mana every single game.
To be honest, your list is not very different from UWR Delver. You only switch 10 - 12 cards (PW, 3-4 lands, creatures, not counting the counterspell suite).
UWR Delver is not always "stuck" with an equipment card in hand. It happens, so it will to you even with more mana...
You traded some "unfairness" relying in the shell of every "tempo" deck (daze, wasteland, stifle) for "fairness" and better endgame.
So what? Sure, in the end, you will be able to abuse "batterskull", "E.E" and in some extend the raw power of PW, but straight UWR delver is strong too.
For major events, you have to ask yourself what you are going to do because playing "properly" during 9 rounds requires a huge amount of concentration.
Mid-range & control are more likely to go to time so that you might not have enough resting time between the rounds.
Playing a tempo shell will provide you more rest (eventually less stress) in the long run.
So is it worth to play a mid-range shell of a deck compared to its other tempo shell ?
I guess here we are talking about personal/preference choices & playstyle. But keep in mind, that all is not about RAW power. UWR Delver is showing strong results but I have yet to see UWR.blade doing the same...
Basically because as of now, to pop a Delver on turn 1 and ride it to victory by 1-for-1ing constantly opponent's resources with your optimal cc1s answers (the strongest of the formats in UWr I'd dare to say) is a strategy that pays more than ramping to 4 and 5 mana and try to carry a Jace to resources' supremacy with a Snapcaster here and there.
The latest Legacy is more and more pushing towards combo deck and fair decks with a low curve with Wasteland and resistors (Thalia, Daze, Pierce), and True Name Nemesis does nothing but to incentivate the second category to prosper even more, both in being played and being played against. In such scenario, by going midrange you have a good portion of cards that require you either to survive the first 3 turns and/or develop mana correctly in order to take over, as well as being lucky enough to sit across an unknown opponent (taken from a GP-like prospective) and hoping that 1) you don't have many of those sitting in starting hand and 2) the opponent isn't playing a blazingly fast deck. When Death and Taxes, Elves, UWr Delver and Sneak and Show are tiers, Jace is most of the time bad.
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Red as of now does nothing for Stoneblade midrange-edition to power up its strategy. Lightning Bolt, as good as it is, just dirts the manabase since game 1 and we all know that midranges are more susceptible to Wasteland because being cut off a land in the first 4 turns invalidates the most important spells and we stutter in front of fast spells. Since TNN, Supreme Verdict is a much better removal than Bolt because of the aforementioned decks (granted you reach 4 mana against that and they don't mitigate overextension, i.e. not in Vial mode.)
Pyroblast could stop the usual suspects, truth is that apart from Show and Tell it is now less effective because a TNN that's slipped onto the board won't just be touched; countering/destroying Jace has also becoming less common because the Blue Planeswalker is indeed being reduced in effectiveness.
So I guess you're right, the correct angle for Stoneblade now is to play either straight UW (although I strongly dislike colorless fancy lands like Factory) or Esperblade, as discard spells, Zealous Persecution and Lingering Souls are just too good in both providing disruptive elements to faster strategies and opening up the Jace gameplan well.
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I'm on the SCG Dallas winning UW Stoneblade list and love it. Rock solid manabase that isn't Wasteland-vulnerable is always nice. Re: colorless lands, you certainly don't have to play them, but I think some number of Mishra's Factory is correct as our threat density is semi-low, Factory lives through Supreme Verdict, it potentially "saves" our TNN from their Liliana-edict, allows TNN to go on offense while Factory protects Jace on defense, etc. Initially I was like "these are unerwhelming", but after playing with it, they've been surprisingly good for the UW build.
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