[Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

[Megadeus]

Was a bit confused as you refered to me for the list, as I run the 4th fetch over the 3rd Mox as you know until I realized that you talked about the Therapies and the Telemin. :)

I'm investigating the options to replace the Chains (as Leyline left my Metagame and I rarely saw it at the BoM) to boost the Tempo-matchup. Having 1-2 additional copies of EtW in the SB to board in those in a deck with 4 CT in the 75 is something I have to take a closer look at to mimic the gameplan of Grinding Station.

Don't you think it's time to let IGG go? ;)

Small remark: in your second game against UWR you need to take the SFM with the flashback as you might have realized ... That's what CT is for: prevent your opponent from finding a solution to the Goblins



Congratz!
Give your Volcanic a good-night-Kiss ;D

I agree with maybe finding another slot for an empty or two in the board. Like I said on the last page, I think boarding in an empty to possibly improve your odds of drawing it seems pretty solid vs the tempo MU, which seems to be a pretty popular archetype at the moment.

[Lemnear]

I agree with maybe finding another slot for an empty or two in the board. Like I said on the last page, I think boarding in an empty to possibly improve your odds of drawing it seems pretty solid vs the tempo MU, which seems to be a pretty popular archetype at the moment.

The idea of 3 EtW in the side popped up at the BoM as we were drunk in our hotel ... If i remember correctly :)

The difference is that boarding in the single copy of EtW kills your 4 Wishes in that matchup and the only option to increase natural EtW-draws postboard is to run more of them in the board. Obviously that results in you boarding out the Ad Nauseam + X for that idea. But atm it's just exactly that: an idea to test

[Final Fortune]

I agree in full, running the full set of ETW and Therapies has been amazing vs Delver.dec post-board. I think it's time we cut the Xantid Swarms, stop metagaming vs Reanimator and Show&Tell and just put all of our concentration into winning vs Delver and Miracles. At this point, I don't think we need anything more than Telemin Performance or Bribery vs Reanimator and Show&Tell, the Xantid Swarms are just awkward without a gold land because you can't win on the same turn you cast it like Silence and I'm really tired of boarding in Tropical Island for mana stability.

A SB like,

1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Grape Shot
3 Empty the Warrens
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Past in Flames
1 Telemin Performance
1 Cabal Therapy
3 Abrupt Decay

Seems pretty bare bones

I think you're going to find that if you stick with that SB plan tho' that you're going to want the 3rd Chrome Mox in order to be able to shit out Goblins T1.

[Megadeus]

Idk I like Swarm. It is actually decent vs those MU's because it allows for a silence that they can't interact with. It may actually be worse vs SnT though since Im sure some of the time your SnT opponent will be boarding in Pyroclasm.

[Lemnear]

I agree in full, running the full set of ETW and Therapies has been amazing vs Delver.dec post-board. I think it's time we cut the Xantid Swarms, stop metagaming vs Reanimator and Show&Tell and just put all of our concentration into winning vs Delver, hatebears and Miracles. At this point, I don't think we need anything more than Telemin Performance or Bribery vs Reanimator and Show&Tell, the Xantid Swarms are just awkward without a gold land because you can't win on the same turn you cast it like Silence and I'm really tired of boarding in Tropical Island for mana stability.

A SB like,

1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Grape Shot
3 Empty the Warrens
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Past in Flames
1 Telemin Performance
1 Cabal Therapy
3 Abrupt Decay

Seems pretty bare bones

I think you're going to find that if you stick with that SB plan tho' that you're going to want the 3rd Chrome Mox in order to be able to shit out Goblins T1.

Exactly the SB I had in mind (still wanted to keep 3 Swarms as your suggested board is only 12 cards) and the return of the 3rd Mox was in the back of my head as well, as we rely more on the natural T1 EtW and need less stable mana to fight through defense that once was my idea by switching the Mox for the 4th fetch


Edit: fixed your post

Edit 2: I really like the idea of profiting more from the speed of the deck and to race hatebears.

[Final Fortune]

Idk I like Swarm. It is actually decent vs those MU's because it allows for a silence that they can't interact with. It may actually be worse vs SnT though since Im sure some of the time your SnT opponent will be boarding in Pyroclasm.

The problem I have with Xantid Swarm is that one of its strengths is being able to cast it before the combo turn in order to recouperate the mana, and our manabase runs at 6 as opposed to 8 golden lands compared to the old days so the inherent efficiency of the card is much less and really requires a Tropical Island in the SB. Assumming you do fetch the Tropical Island in order to cast the Xantid Swarm, you now have an otherwise worthless land on the board for comboing out - so it's kind of a vicious cycle.

Personally, I'm pretty happy with just the base 8 disruption spells in the deck (4 Silence/4 Therapy) and then just hurling tokens at them. Playing the full set of ETW was old tech, but we never played it with a full set of Therapy before - which makes it pretty insane.

[Megadeus]

I like it in theory. I'm just not sure how good it is. I mean testing definitely needs to be done, but it seems like a decent plan. Though withtheup tick in golgari charm and even zealous persecution i guess we shall see

[Lemnear]

I like it in theory. I'm just not sure how good it is. I mean testing definitely needs to be done, but it seems like a decent plan. Though withtheup tick in golgari charm and even zealous persecution i guess we shall see

Yes, those are the options I already faced at the BoM weekend. I admit, I lived the dream twice there:

1) Blindcall FoW with Therapy, strip a FoW, make 12 Goblins, flashback for ZP in his hand while only having 1 mana left, win

2) he Drops SFM turn 3, digs for Skull, I Probe to see Spell Pierce and Skull + X, Therapy which he pierces, making 14 Goblins, flashback CT for Skull, win

[Lemnear]

For references:

5-Color-Goblins

4 Gemstone Mine
2 City of Brass
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
3 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion’s Eye Diamond
4 Dark Ritual
4 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Silence
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Ad Nauseam


3 Xantid Swarm
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Telemin Performance
1 Grapeshot
3 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Past in Flames
1 Diminishing Returns



Edit: 27 users browsing?! Wow

[Bryant Cook]

My newest list is on the opening post.

I think with the rise of UWr, along with the continuation of RUG it's tough to justify not playing Carpet of Flowers. I've made room by shaving the second discard spell and the two copies of Chain of Vapor. I've replaced one of the Chains with Revoke Existence so that we're not absolutely cold to Leyline of Sanctity (Note Lemnear's list up above lacks an answer). The problem with not having an answer to Leyline is that we'll be forced to make Goblins in a match-up where they could play out kill us after we pass the turn. That said, I'm not sold on Revoke. Part of me wonders if it should still be a Chain of Vapor for more versatility, the brightside is we'll have a Wishable answer to non-creature problems.

EDIT: Also, Lemnear, it's called Five-Color-Aggro-Goblins.

[Lemnear]

My newest list is on the opening post.

I think with the rise of UWr, along with the continuation of RUG it's tough to justify not playing Carpet of Flowers. I've made room by shaving the second discard spell and the two copies of Chain of Vapor. I've replaced one of the Chains with Revoke Existence so that we're not absolutely cold to Leyline of Sanctity (Note Lemnear's list up above lacks an answer). The problem with not having an answer to Leyline is that we'll be forced to make Goblins in a match-up where they could play out kill us after we pass the turn. That said, I'm not sold on Revoke. Part of me wonders if it should still be a Chain of Vapor for more versatility, the brightside is we'll have a Wishable answer to non-creature problems.

As I mentioned a few posts above, I feel that there are just too few Leylines in circulation to still keep dedicated hate and I'm willing to have a blind-spot against that card for the Moment which indeed Limits my options to Goblins + Silence-Walk (post AN).

I thought about Carpet, but don't you think that the possible double-application of EtW against RUG, UWR, etc. as well as against hatebears (D&T and Maverick on the rise again; Cannonist a common SB option for UWR, Esperblade and Miracles) make it a more flexible and valuable slot?


Edit: can we make a deal about calling it 5-Color-Mindtwist-Aggro-Goblins pal? ;D

Edit 2: any plans to Review the sideboarding-guide after you'll find conclusion about Evoke Existance? I feel the changing meta to more diverse hate and your latest changes in the deck might make that desireable.

[Bryant Cook]

As I mentioned a few posts above, I feel that there are just too few Leylines in circulation to still keep dedicated hate and I'm willing to have a blind-spot against that card for the Moment which indeed Limits my options to Goblins + Silence-Walk (post AN).

I thought about Carpet, but don't you think that the possible double-application of EtW against RUG, UWR, etc. as well as against hatebears (D&T and Maverick on the rise again; Cannonist a common SB option for UWR, Esperblade and Miracles) make it a more flexible and valuable slot?


Edit: can we make a deal about calling it 5-Color-Mindtwist-Aggro-Goblins pal? ;D

Edit 2: any plans to Review the sideboarding-guide after you'll find conclusion about Evoke Existance? I feel the changing meta to more diverse hate and your latest changes in the deck might make that desireable.

Sneak Show is as large as ever, Omni is still a deck. I disagree that Leyline's numbers have dwindled.

Have you tested multiple Emptys? It's great in theory, awful in practice. It essentially shuts off Ad Nauseam and makes mass removal extremely good against us, especially Engineered Explosives since we can't discard it after we make Goblins.

As for the "Mind twist", I'm on the fence about the third MD Therapy vs. Thoughtseize. As of right now I'm still on Thoughtseize, but I could see it changing.

I'm not updating the sideboarding guide until I have a more solidified list. Everything is in flux at the moment and it would be pointless as I would have to update it if it changed again anytime soon.

[Lemnear]

Sneak Show is as large as ever, Omni is still a deck. I disagree that Leyline's numbers have dwindled.

Have you tested multiple Emptys? It's great in theory, awful in practice. It essentially shuts off Ad Nauseam and makes mass removal extremely good against us, especially Engineered Explosives since we can't discard it after we make Goblins.

As for the "Mind twist", I'm on the fence about the third MD Therapy vs. Thoughtseize. As of right now I'm still on Thoughtseize, but I could see it changing.

I'm not updating the sideboarding guide until I have a more solidified list. Everything is in flux at the moment and it would be pointless as I would have to update it if it changed again anytime soon.

@Leyline:
Took the BoM and local metagame into consideration. Won't dare to give a general advice here

@EtW:
I'm still theorycrafting atm and can't test before Thursday. I'm afraid to sit behind a Carpet of Flowers for +1/+2 mana while staring at Cannonist /Meddling Mage or after losing my Business Spell to discard. Burned Kid, I guess :/
Strange gut-feeling about the masses of green cards in the SB of your OP

@Discard-suite:
I'm not sure how relevant the "5th peek" vs. "The lifeloss" vs. "The Flashback" really is. It depends a lot on personal experiences and if you sometimes Wish is would be the other card. Since we are beyond the limits of Duress to not being able to save us from Thalia/SFM/Cannonist/etc. I think this isn't a topic that deserves that much attention other than underlining the Synergy with an increased EtW-count, but I bored you and the fellow readers of this thread already enough with that ;)

@Sideboard-guide:
That's what I expected and hinted at by mentioning Evoke Existance. Was just a small reminder :)

[Bryant Cook]

@Leyline:
Took the BoM and local metagame into consideration. Won't dare to give a general advice here

@EtW:
I'm still theorycrafting atm and can't test before Thursday. I'm afraid to sit behind a Carpet of Flowers for +1/+2 mana while staring at Cannonist /Meddling Mage or after losing my Business Spell to discard. Burned Kid, I guess :/
Strange gut-feeling about the masses of green cards in the SB of your OP

@Discard-suite:
I'm not sure how relevant the "5th peek" vs. "The lifeloss" vs. "The Flashback" really is. It depends a lot on personal experiences and if you sometimes Wish is would be the other card. Since we are beyond the limits of Duress to not being able to save us from Thalia/SFM/Cannonist/etc. I think this isn't a topic that deserves that much attention other than underlining the Synergy with an increased EtW-count, but I bored you and the fellow readers of this thread already enough with that ;)

@Sideboard-guide:
That's what I expected and hinted at by mentioning Evoke Existance. Was just a small reminder :)

It's tough to argue Carpet of Flowers vs Hate bears as I don't think the sideboard discard spell improves the match-up more than the ability to negate Daze/Pierce/Flusterstorm.

Im going to test three Therapy maindeck this week. I actually just made the physical switch, we'll see how it goes.

A thought I've had was to move the Tropical main and then make the two slots (Tropical & Revokes) into Chains again. I don't know if this is a bad idea though, it would likely be over a Mox.

[Lemnear]

It's tough to argue Carpet of Flowers vs Hate bears as I don't think the sideboard discard spell improves the match-up more than the ability to negate Daze/Pierce/Flusterstorm.

Im going to test three Therapy maindeck this week. I actually just made the physical switch, we'll see how it goes.

A thought I've had was to move the Tropical main and then made the two Revokes Chains again. I don't know if this is a bad idea though, it would likely be over a Mox.

Just thought that more EtW's might solve both topics. Time will tell.

As I made the switch of -1 Mox +1 Fetch I had made a calculation for AN flips and such. Not sure where it ended up :/
Would be surprised to see you making that move after fighting for the 3rd Mox tbh. I sure get the intention here, but I wonder if it's wise to alter the manabase that way as Tropical adds nothing to your G1


Edit: still waiting for a fetchable Rainbow-Land *sigh*

[Bryant Cook]

Just thought that more EtW's might solve both topics. Time will tell.

As I made the switch of -1 Mox +1 Fetch I had made a calculation for AN flips and such. Not sure where it ended up :/
Would be surprised to see you making that move after fighting for the 3rd Mox tbh. I sure get the intention here, but I wonder if it's wise to alter the manabase that way as Tropical adds nothing to your G1

You'll find that additional Empties makes the deck weaker due to Ad Nauseam is a much weaker option at that point.

I think the third mox is a necessary evil, but I also am trying to optimize the deck as much as possible. What I've been doing in this thread over the last few hours is really just stream of thought, I may just make the Revoke a Chain again and call it for now. Who knows.

[Lemnear]

You'll find that additional Empties makes the deck weaker due to Ad Nauseam is a much weaker option at that point.

I think the third mox is a necessary evil, but I also am trying to optimize the deck as much as possible. What I've been doing in this thread over the last few hours is really just stream of thought, I may just make the Revoke a Chain again and call it for now. Who knows.

I opted to board AN out there anyways as I had a lot of trouble resolving it for value after I fought through Tempo.decs defense in the recent past while getting smacked by Delver, Mongeese or Lightning Bolts left and right :(

That's all just Brainstorming here. I enjoy sharing thoughts on the matter.

[Bryant Cook]

I opted to board AN out there anyways as I had a lot of trouble resolving it for value after I fought through Tempo.decs defense in the recent past while getting smacked by Delver, Mongeese or Lightning Bolts left and right :(

That's all just Brainstorming here. I enjoy sharing thoughts on the matter.

So... you're just willing to concede to any RUG/UWr/Grixis player smart enough to play Engineered Explosives/Electricery? I understand that we have Therapy, but they have ways to hide their answers. It seems like your eggs are all in one basket.

[Lemnear]

So... you're just willing to concede to any RUG/UWr/Grixis player smart enough to play Engineered Explosives/Electricery? I understand that we have Therapy, but they have ways to hide their answers. It seems like your eggs are all in one basket.

Wouldn't call it that way, since there are still all SB Engines as well as the natural spellchain available, which appears a bit underused in general.

I'm just willing to remove 1 Ad Nauseam as kill in the face of Pierce/Daze/FoW to add 2 biz-spells in the form of EtW facing mostly Stifle and optional 2-3 sweepers no one really mulligans into in fear of AN and the Tendrils-kill.

I can see myself doing this for the sake of testing

[BrettF]

Bryant,
What would you side out if you are bringing in Carpet/Carpet/Trop or Carpet/Carpet/Trop/Therapy VS Delver?