[Primer/Deck] Pox

[Ralf]

Nope, it was a certain Matthew Everitt

Hmmm, I guess they were two to pack it then :D

[Captain Hammer]

In reference to my list on the previous page, Im curious why Noetic Scales based lists never took off. That card is absolutely brutal in the current format, and Pox is completely immune to it.

[zenitramleirdag]

noetic scales can indeed be good for pox because of the obvious symmetry with all the discard we are packing..i think its exorbitant cost is whats keeping it from seeing much tournament play and people would rather use ensnaring bridge for creature control at a lower cost..
at 4 mana, most pox players would rather cast nether void, night of soul's betrayal or even bottled cloisted(in reference to reid duke's list)..
but give it a shot, i don't think it has been play tested enough..who knows? we might even discover a secret tech..



Matthew Everitt sure ran a lot of creature hate in his SB! he was probably expecting to face a lot of creature decks! very good meta-gaming on his part! i hope he'd come by and share some insights about his deck..

[OmniStrata]

noetic scales can indeed be good for pox because of the obvious symmetry with all the discard we are packing..i think its exorbitant cost is whats keeping it from seeing much tournament play and people would rather use ensnaring bridge for creature control at a lower cost..
at 4 mana, most pox players would rather cast nether void, night of soul's betrayal or even bottled cloisted(in reference to reid duke's list)..
but give it a shot, i don't think it has been play tested enough..who knows? we might even discover a secret tech..



Matthew Everitt sure ran a lot of creature hate in his SB! he was probably expecting to face a lot of creature decks! very good meta-gaming on his part! i hope he'd come by and share some insights about his deck..

I prefer Culling Scales over Noetic Scales. :) With Nether Spirit in play, it's hilarious.

[Hardcore]

To make it easier to figure out the weak cards and find replacements I tried rate them:

Darkblast
Smallpox
Sensei’s Divining Top
Pox
Bloodghast
Tombstalker
Dakmor Salvage
Dark Ritual
Nihilith
Innocent Blood
Hymn to Tourach
Nether Spirit

The list look more like below nowadays. It reflect more what I need in the deck, than a judgement of the cards themselves. Innocent Blood, for example, is a tier I card. But it is a 1-for-1 and I don't feel I need it.

Tier I

Darkblast
Smallpox
Bloodghast
Nihilith
Perish - This is a sideboard card, but it is a black wrath of god in the format.

Tier II

Pox
Tombstalker
Dakmor Salvage
Hymn to Tourach
Sensei’s Divining Top - It is a third tier card in itself, and need an enabler like fetch lands or dredge effects to be good.
Liliana of the Veil - I will run this only if my plan is to go junk stylee, playing only the strongest cards.

Tier III

Innocent Blood
Nether Spirit
Dark Ritual

New cards
Reanimate - I bought two, and will test one in the deck
Cabal Therapy - Need support for maximum effectiveness.
Buried Alive - The one in the deck take up a creature slot.
Sickening Dreams - Just in case card that give me more options than just pox my own mana. It is also a nice finisher when the opponent is on low life.
Gitaxian Probe - For thinning out the deck, and only when running Cabal therapy.

[Megadeus]

Liliana is very very good in pox. Not sure why you wouldn't want it

[Polish Tamales]

Liliana is very very good in pox. Not sure why you wouldn't want it

Yeah...gonna have to agree too.

Lili's literally a 4 of in any Pox list. You rarely ever sideboard her out since she has all the options you want for Pox's core game.

[Hardcore]

Mostly because she need to be well protected. Maybe that is easier in orthodox versions of pox?

[Claymore]

Just popping in to say that Noetic Scales looks bonkers good right now, and it combos very well with Liliana and lets late game discard act to bounce irritating Deathrites and whatnot. High cost is justified by wiping the board on the following upkeep. It even answers True Name and is Abrupt Decay proof. Hell its even Jace proof unlike Ensaring Bridge, which allows utility creatures to hang around. Only area where I see Ensnaring Bridge being better is against Sneak Attack.

I myself might test it elsewhere...

[Captain Hammer]

Just popping in to say that Noetic Scales looks bonkers good right now, and it combos very well with Liliana and lets late game discard act to bounce irritating Deathrites and whatnot. High cost is justified by wiping the board on the following upkeep. It even answers True Name and is Abrupt Decay proof. Hell its even Jace proof unlike Ensaring Bridge, which allows utility creatures to hang around. Only area where I see Ensnaring Bridge being better is against Sneak Attack.

I myself might test it elsewhere...

Well said Claymore.

I have found Noetic Scales to be absolutely amazing in this deck ever since Liliana was printed, but it's gotten even better since Sneak and Show, Abrupt Decay and True Name Nemesis showed up.

In general the build I posted on the previous page is a more consistent direction to go. The general theme of this build was to deemphasize the land destruction aspect of the deck to beef up the discard (4 Liliana, 4 Necrogen Mists, 2 Raven's Crime). And by beefing up the discard so significantly, the deck is able to better support 4cc spells and it is also able to absolutely abuse Noetic Scales and The Rack.

You can certainly play Ensnaring Bridge alongside Noetic Scales, but playing Ensnaring Bridge means that I would have to replace the Haunted Plate Mail with Cursed Scroll and HPM offers a much much faster clock. In addition, Mishra's Factory loses a ton of utility if you opt to play Ensnaring Bridge.

[zenitramleirdag]

@claymore
one thing it indeed has over ensnaring bridge is that its abrupt decay proof, i have completely overlooked that part..thanks for reminding me about that..
i'm not dismissing it, i think its a very good control card that warrants more playtesting..

[OmniStrata]

The list look more like below nowadays. It reflect more what I need in the deck, than a judgement of the cards themselves. Innocent Blood, for example, is a tier I card. But it is a 1-for-1 and I don't feel I need it.

Liliana of the Veil - I will run this only if my plan is to go junk stylee, playing only the strongest cards.

This is unacceptable. You should not wish to play 'weak' cards in Pox just to be either rogue or different/budget. "Junk" is a strongest cards deck? Pox by sheer design is a control prison deck. The style of deck as well as the BBB spell itself specifically wants no lands, creatures, or cards in hand. What's Liliana do? All of the above.

To exclude Liliana from suggested builds means the deck will be inferior. There's a reason why Pox started showing up in top 8s, and unfortunately, it's not Pox the card, but Liliana alongside Pox.

Your meta I have to say is very underdeveloped to say you don't need a 1 cmc kill spell for opening Llanowars, Lackeys, DRS, Delver of Secrets, Goblin Guide, Mother of Runes, Reanimator Summons off a Dark Rit, Nimble Mongooses, Noble Hierarchs, Curse Catchers, and every other 1 cmc creature that resists Pox card advantage.

For the record, Hymn and Liliana have to be tier 1. Any Pox player that thinks the deck doesn't need these card Advantage spells isn't a Pox deck I can put faith in sadly.

[Hardcore]

Well, there is a difference between the percieved strength of a card on its own, and its strength in its environment. Emrakul is strong, but not if the deck is not built around him, right? My deck has hard to kill dudes and a beat down plan. Liliana would merely be an adjunct to them. She will get the slots but only if there is room.
One idea is to replace Hymn to Tourach with liliana. I like more permanents in play, even if Hymn can be awesome.

And how you build your deck reflect the meta for sure. No reanimators here, so Darkblast and smallpox is enough to handle what is mostly delvers and such.

[zenitramleirdag]

i think what's omnistrata's talking about is what's good to run in a pox deck in a general Legacy environment..

you have a peculiar meta when you said there are no reanimators since they are very popular these days..

[lyracian]

Hi guys,
Below is the list that I'm currently running, I would really appreciate your feedback or any needed changes or problems that you see. Thank you.
4 Necrogen Mists

Any particular reason to run Necrogen Mists over Bottomless Pit? Also what are you thought on Shrieking Affliction for additional/varied win conditions with the Rack? 4 Haunted Plate Mail seems quite a lot. Also Mr. Duke was running Bottled Cloister rather than Phyrexian Arena as card draw over the weekend so you might want to try that out.

[Captain Hammer]

Shrieking Affliction seems amazing. Honestly had no idea that card even existed. Makes me want to scrap Haunted Plate Mail for it, up the discard count and also make room for some Ensnaring Bridge.

Necrogen Mists main purpose is to enable you to abuse Noetic Scales, The Rack and now Shrieking Affliction and Ensnaring Bridge.

Pox as a deck is barely fazed by Necrogen Mists discard (discard an extra land, an extra urborg, a pox you dont want to cast, an innocent blood, a hymn, or dark ritual that has no utility and in some builds a nether spirit).

Randomly being made to discard your noetic scales or liliana to a bottomless pit instead of a card you have no use for screws you over.

[Scott]

Have you tested Waste Not in your deck, Captain Hammer?

[Captain Hammer]

No, havent tested Waste Not as they havent yet printed the card. Definitely will once its out though.

Update: Outdated list based on the misguided notion that Uba Mask is good in the current environment deleted.

[Hardcore]

What is Uba Mask supposed to do?

[Nekron]

Hello everyone!

I'm struggling to find out what I should get into my pox??

Atm my list looks like this:
// Lands
1 Cabal Pit
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Polluted Delta
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
9 swamp

// Creatures
1 Nether Spirit

// Spells
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Cursed Scroll
3 Dark Ritual
3 Innocent Blood
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Mox Diamond
1 Nether Void
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Pox
1 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
3 Trinisphere

// Sideboard
SB: 2 Duress
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 The Abyss
SB: 3 Toxic Deluge

My biggest problem is how to sb properly against creature based decks like Canadian threshold or xyz delver. I'm sure that tribal decks should be fine after
-Swamp -sinkhole -Ghost quarter -Nether void (of got vials) or SDT and +The abyss +3 toxic deluge. But nether void and ghost quarter feels to good against counter magic with absolutely no basic lands and getting +2 extirpate and +2 surgical extraction will drive them nuts after removing all they duals.

Also I'm a bit concern about storm that do I need just a bit more against them.

Thank you very much in advance for all great tips and tricks :-)