You could say the same thing about RUG sometimes if they draw the nutz. I said I would rather ban Delver than TNN, because it's a better card anyway. Neither card should be banned. My advice: nut up and adapt. Play discard; you have at least three turns to cast a 1 CC discard spell to get rid of TNN. Or play Runed Halo even if you're a TNN deck. It doesn't stop your TNN from attacking the opponent, but it stops their TNN, no matter how many Equips are on it.Originally Posted by Zombie
Maybe it would help people evaluate more accurately the card if they realized that "protection from the chosen player" in duels means the card actually owns far more abilities than an Akroma, Angel of Wrath for example, and they are all relevant. There aren't really 3cc creatures with many abilities to compare, but a closer creature like deathrite shaman only has 3 and yet it is seen as too many.
CLICK HERE FOR THE RULES OF A VERY FUN MULTIPLAYER CASUAL FORMAT
You very likely can build it without spending any money, just out of what you already have.
An example with my (very large) list in a visual form
I already play fast combo, thank you very much. That doesn't stop TNN from being a disgusting POS.
Conveniently forgetting a certain Hydra god, are we?
I wonder what will majority of the players will say if tnn's ability said
Hexproof, protection from creatures,
Instead of protection from players. I know for a fact a lot of players whine and moan because they couldn't believe wizards printed a creature that said protection from target player.
Not the same, can be pyroclasmed.
Hydrant needs S+T or NO. Or T&N at least. TNN needs just three lands. Otoh, it's a mere 3/1 so banning seems unnecessary. In fact I haven't seen a single copy of it in the last four tournaments I attended, so I can't say that it warps meta.
Thresh may fly over it and then burn the owner... if TNN resolves whatsoever. Postboard Blasts.
Maverick may overrun it with KotRs and equipments, while taking care of Jitte with QPM.
Goblins don't care of one wall, they stampede the opponent and their card adv. and land destruction makes for the creatures lost. Post board Grudge/Needle/Spree/Vandal to fight equips. REB the dude.
No storm combo cares of Troll Ascetic.
Same goes for Show and Win decks.
Tombstalker flies over it. Pernicious Deed is a maindecked answer.
Similarly to gobbos, Jund has CA, LD and even Liliana. And Deed.
Merfolks islandwalk.
Affinity, MUD, 12-post, 8-post, 8-Tezz don't care of Troll Ascetic.
Burn needs Vortex, Pyroblast and Smash to stop the equipment, other than that they don't care of 3/1. Vortex should be maindeck in this meta.
UW control of any sort have several answers of any sort.
Esper- and Deathblade have sweepers and equips of their own to mitigate a 3/1.
It's stupid design. But not bannable.
It's not Disco Inferno.
I just played a match where I had a turn 0 Leyline of Sanctity and 2 TNN on turn 5
like a upkeep-free Solitary Confinement
So they couldn't hit you with discard? I don't get the point of that post at all. Leyline does nothing in this scenario since you didn't mention what cards were blanked.
No, they do stop them. You're changing what you said. Let's take a look:
Okay, now you're just changing what you said. You said, and I quote:Snt to:
- Omniscence -> Cunning Wish -> Firemind's Foresight -> Wish, Trickbind, anything 1cc -> Trickbind on Oblivion Ring, Ashen Rider, Stingscourger
- Primeval Titan -> he takes his 2 lands anyway for 2U and may be next turn he gets 2 lands again thanks to the bounce.
- Griselbrand -> he draws from 7 to 14 anyway, he just loses the +7 life due to the lifelink
Discard and counters are the only effective way to deal with SnT.
"there's no possible hate to SnT but counters."
Are you trying to claim that the cards I listed aren't hate? You're trying to say "they have ways around that hate" which doesn't negate the fact what you said was false. What, are you going to say that Gaddock Teeg and Thalia aren't hate against Storm because they have ways to deal with them?
Oh, and while Griselbrand might "draw from 7 to 14 anyway" that means they give up a fair amount of life to draw cards that might not even help them. It doesn't completely shut it down if they get lucky with those draws, but it sure makes things a lot harder for them because they don't get to take advantage of the lifelink.
The point is, "they have answers to hate," while true, doesn't mean (1) the hate isn't problematic, because it's much harder to push through hate because you need the applicable answer, or (2) the hate doesn't exist.
By the way, the fact you claim "Discard and counters are the only effective way to deal with SnT." now (which of course isn't what you said before) is a bit funny considering Death & Taxes, which doesn't play either, actually has a decent matchup against the deck.
Certainly Progenitus is more difficult to cast than TNN, but I was responding to the overly dramatic statement that it's the "first unkillable" creature ever printed.
Don't you know? When confronted with a cogent answer to a dramatic statement one made, the standard procedure in Internet argument is to go charging off in another direction.
Well, I actually forgot it. But Progenitus is not a normal creature that you can compare to TNN.
In my opinion Progenitus should be removed from existence for the same reason: "Protection from everything" is an ability that shouldn't exist.
Progenitus has the "disadvantage" that it can't be targeted by its controller and its mana cost would make it irrelevant if it weren't for cards that put it into play without casting.
So totally different situation.
Not the same.
Also, "Protection from creatures" alone is already very lame and uninteractive, but it's not that critical since there are enough other ways to interact.
I actually don't care about if or if not the certain deck archtypes can handle TNN.
Fact is TNN hurts Legacy on the whole in that it makes the games a lot more uninteractive and unfun. In my opinion that makes it very banworthy.
And what about the number of unprovoked personal attacks made by TNN defenders like you in this thread? Do a thread search for "whiner".
The sky must be falling again.
I'll take that as an admission that you're incapable of making an argument without resorting to the standard Internet practice of insults.
You seem to believe that people who are freaking out and screaming the doom of Legacy deserve to be listened to. Interesting.
I really wish people would comment with something meaningful to progress a constructive argument rather than just name call people chicken little.
@Scott:
TNN defenders won't believe the card is busted until after a banning. Until then I am convinced that no amount of evidence will convince them. Just sit, watch tournaments and wait for December/March. If you don't get something by then you know there's nothing that can be done and you're better off playing combo from now on or just dropping legacy. On a separate note, why do you care to convince these people anyway? What they think only matters in so far as you give them the ability to irritate you.
To not thirst for power is to be at the mercy of those that do
I really wish people would stop trying to predict the future like they have some oracle gift when really they are speaking from conjecture.
I swear to god, this thread is pretty much the same thread that tarmogoyf had when it came out of nowhere and pwned everything. I have all the evidence I need, and until something happens I am content to play him and see how it goes.
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote