In terms of card advantage - why hasn't Sygg, River Cutthroat worked out for people? Getting 3 damage in is pretty easy. They have practically the same casting cost, and unlike Standstill, Sygg, River Cutthroat can be vialed in and then be a creature. His 1/3 butt is actually pretty nice and means that with a lord, he is out of bolt range. On top of being an attacker, I can think of matches where he'd make a good blocker. Why isn't he used?! I feel like he should almost be an auto 4 in a deck - or maybe 3 since he is a legendary. It would be very unfortunate to have 2 in an opening hand ;)
Updated list:
3 Phantasmal Image
3 True-Name Nemesis
4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Silvergill Adept
2 Reejery
3 Sygg, River Cutthroat
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Spell Pierce
4 Aether Vial
4 Mutavault
3 Wasteland (local meta choice - Mutavault is good against Goblins and Affinity, my weakest match-ups)
13 Island
Sideboard
2 x Grafdigger's Cage
1 x Tormod's Crypt
2 x Spell Pierce
3 x Tidebender Mage
2 x Dismember
2 x Jitte
3 x Pithing Needle
This is quite an aggressive list, because it has 27 creatures and 10 lords (with phantasmal image to act as more) + super evasion. Yet it also has massive card advantage - seems good? The only change I might make is -Reejery for +1 spell pierce. Sweepers are devastating and they are going to become more common now that TNN is running around.
I think that Sygg is good as well, but the reasons that people don't use him I think are:
1) He is good when you're already winning ( a bit like standstill actually).
2) Awful when you are losing ( a bit like standstill).
3) Killable (Unlike standstill).
4) The deck list is too tight. It is difficult to pull tempo or control for him.
I agree that he isn't good when you are losing, however as you said neither is standstill. He more just acts as a replacement for it. He doesn't punish control or combol but he does give card advantage and helps us against our weaker matchups :-) he also, in conjunction with the vial, can't be countered! He seems so good, I can't wait to play with him this weekend! I am playing in a local legacy but my FOWs haven't arrived in time so I am probably going to be playing a terrible version of the deck. I will still update with my analysis.
The reason why we do not play Sygg, is the crowd slots. Sygg is not unplayable, but today even reejereys are reduced for putting Progenifish in…
I hear they got twisters miles wide in the Midwest.
Makes sense. I'm more just wondering why he didn't get the cut over Standstill for so long. Sygg provides card advantage that we can use each turn to apply more and more pressure, while digging for counters against combo. The thing with standstill is sometimes, I had cards I wanted to play to speed up the clock - but couldn't, because, well, standstill was in the way. With Sygg, it just speeds the whole process up, and he can be vialed in. If he gets removed that is unfortunate but probably only STP and path to exile will be the usual way he is removed anyway. My guess is he will usually get you at least one extra card.Originally Posted by Tokugawa
Sygg is actually pretty nice in a Dark Confidant-heavy meta. Still, against fair decks I'd probably rather have more TNNs/Images/Reejereys.
Falling from heaven is not as painful as surviving the impact.
Almost every deck which plays Bob, also plays shaman. Can't expect opponent lose 3+ life during their own turn.
I hear they got twisters miles wide in the Midwest.
You get the card regardless of if they have gained life. If I attack, you take 3 and later gain six, I still get a card.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
Even if they gain life back once they've lost 3 life sygg will trigger. The real question is how many times they will flip a card of 3cc or more
Edit: ninja-ed by dice_box :-)
Sent from my mobile, forgive me for grammar errors.
Ignorance is strength
Hi,
Can anybody give me some advice on when/how to play Standstill?
I've never played it, only for testing purposes, and most of the times it ended becoming a problem. It may be because my meta is full of creature decks.
Is Standstill worth running MD in a lot-of creature deck's meta? Any advice?
Thanks
Its mostly a Combo hate card. You drop it when you have pressure on the table that needs to be answered. Vial, Muta in the hand or more creatures than them. Its useful like that. But if you can not get ahead, then the card is just not that good. In a situation where your mostly facing fair decks that will play more creatures I would look at running Jitte and dismember over standstill. You can put standstill in the side to deal with Combo if you face it just in case.
Personally, in a room full of creature decks, I would look at a card like Spreading Seas. You can Waste a land and get Islandwalk all in one smooth hit. But if you do this you are more or less building the modern deck and facing all the same issues. Fish is good where blue is common, not really that good when it is not.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
I see, so it's no the better card for my meta. That's why I always get bad results with it...
Would you play 2 jittes MD? I'm playing 4 TNN (fantastic with jitte) and 4 Images (terrible)...
Can you post tour list please?
I started 8-0 (1 bye) in DC with this list. Day two I got my second loss round 11 from Owen then ended the tournament vs Elves each of the last two rounds to finish out of the money.
13 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland
4 Aether Vial
4 Cursecatcher
1 Spell Pierce
4 Daze
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
3 Phantasmal Image
4 Silvergill Adept
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Merrow Reejerey
4 True-Name Nemesis
4 Force of Will
Sideboard:
1 Flusterstorm
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Spell Pierce
2 Swan Song
1 Pithing Needle
1 Gilded Drake
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Dismember
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
2 Submerge
My buddy played the same list with -1x Island +1 Merrow Reejerey in the main and in the side he swapped the 2x Swan Song's for another Spell Pierce and Flusterstorm, also a second Kira over my Gilded Drake. He finished X-3 Day 1, only losing to Jund (1-3 vs Jund) which I dodged both days.
We tested Thassa's, Master of Waves, Tidebinders, cutting Reejerey completely, 4x Phantasmal Image, Standstills, Cavern... and were both confident in our list.
Submerge is just insane when you get to bring it in, and it was easy changing the Tidebinders into these after Master of Waves and Thassa didn't make the cut. Adding Reejerey's back to the main was mostly due to getting stomped by Meekstone out of D&T, and it's still a very tough matchup if you don't draw multiple TNN's. The 4th Image got axed due to those draws where you have no creatures & 4 lands in play, no Vial and stuck with Image and Silvergil in your hand.
Swan Song had a drawback only once through the whole tourney when I had a Kira in play that couldn't attack through the bird (vs Miracles).
Mutavault and Wasteland are both WAY too good to shave, but I agree with the trend of 13 Islands.. so I just played 21 lands.
I plan to take this to a 40-dual land tourney this weekend with only one small change... Changing the Pithing Needle in the side to a Cursed Totem to have a chance vs Elves while still being good vs SFM.
I'm not sure what would improve the Jund matchup, but I'm fine with my plan being to dodge it.
Thanks so much for posting your list! Just some questions. Firstly, would you be willing to do a brief overview of the decks you played? That would be very helpful. I am especially interested in your aggro, DnT and blade matchups if you had any.
Secondly, I see you had 9 counters in the main deck. Against combo was that enough, or did you usually lose game one?
And thirdly, I see you really only have Silvergill for drawing cards. Did you find you ran out of steam? I was planning on testing 2 river cuthtroats but I am having to trade out - 1 reejery and - 1 jitte main deck for it which hurts.
And finally, did you learn any lessons vs. Elves? Can we beat them using our stock sideboard cards rather than dedicated hate? Thanks!
My list is in a state of flux. I have TNN now but I have not played the deck much since he came out. I mostly play Elves to race Stoneblade. But I will do some tinkering and post what I have as soon as I have something. I do fear its likely to look much the same as many of the decks posted on the last 3 pages.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
Day 1 I beat, in order: Reanimator (2-0), D&T (2-1), Miracles (2-0), Reid Duke Bant (2-0), Junk Aggro-Loam (2-0), UWR Delver (2-0), ANT (2-0) - and lost to 12-post/MUD (0-2)... was 10th place going into the final day 1 round.
Day 2 I beat RUG Delver (2-1) and Reanimator (2-0), losing to UWR Delver, Dead Guy Ale (0-2) and Elves twice (0-4).
I tested vs Deathblade and and it's close. Stopping SFM with counter/removal/pithing needle (updated to cursed totem) is the key. They will dig for EE because it's the only way they beat TNN if they can't race w/ batterskull
I never dropped a game to ANT or Reanimator. My game 1 vs ANT was pretty lucky though as I Wastelanded, countered some cantrips with curse catchers and rode 2x TNN to victory before he could find a tutor. Game 2 I had the FoW for his Xantid Swarm and then Swan Songed a Branstorm, and then Lords ended it quickly.
I didn't miss Standstill at all -- I really hate that card if it's not played turn two after a turn-one vial. Silvergil is one of the best cards in the deck though.
Elves is a nightmare matchup (I can't think of a worse one). Your goal is to attack with a Jitte as ASAP (turn 3 with a curse catcher is the earliest, so don't side them out even though they seem pretty bad in the matchup). The Dismembers, Submerges, Cage and Totem are there to buy time to achieve that goal.
So I went to a local legacy tournament yesterday. It is casual and had 16 players. Show and Tell is almost never played. I went 3-2 with my Merfolk deck. I could have done much better I know. I am new to constructed and legacy and made many mistakes, I'm sure. I made some changes because I was facing a creature-based meta with little pure control and combo (only combo being reanimator). Here was my deck:
Main Deck
4 x Cursecatcher
4 x Silvergill
4 x Lord of Atlantis
4 x Pearl Trident
3 x Phantasmal Image
3 x True-Name Nemesis
2 x Reejery
4 x Aether Vial
2 x Dismember
2 x Jitte
4 x FOW
3 x Daze
1 x Spell Pierce
13 x Island
4 x Mutavault
3 x Wasteland
Sideboard (this wasn't what I wanted it to be)
4 x Graveyard hate (2 dredge 1 reanimator made me feel vindicated)
3 x Spell Pierce
2 x Dismember
3 x Pithing Needle (wanted 4!)
3 x Chalice of the Void
Deck Analysis
TNN was usually MVP. He gives us something we didn't really have before: an insane top-deck. I lost to decks filled with spot removal and Liliana, which crippled me. If you've gotten in a lot of damage and can top deck TNN, then often times you can push through the final damage with him alone.
In a creature-heavy meta I was very pleased to have Jitte main decked. However I would swap out one for another TNN. I didn't draw TNN a lot of the time and it made me sad.
2 Reejery felt fine. He was always the last card I wanted to cast. The temptation to swap one out for another phantasmal image is high but I know it is a bad idea: it makes phantasmal image too often a dead card in your hand.
Going 4 x Mutavault instead of 4 x Wasteland was the wrong decision. Yes it improves my match-up against affinity but against goblins, even though mutavault can block goblins, crippling their mana works better. And against all other decks, wasteland was often central to me winning. Shutting down their stuff while playing my own is key and I need to remember/understand that Merfolk isn't just aggro, it is tempo.
Too often my deck was slow. If I drew lots of Merfolk it was nuts and I blew out. But too often I might start with a hand of 2-3 Merfolk and draw into nothing else. Against Shardless BUG I drew 3 Merfolk over the course of both matches. It makes me wary to board any out. I don't know if that was bad luck, bad muligining or if we need to think about card advantage/selecting more.
Pithing needle was great against stoneblade, as long as it wasn't a controling version that combined tonnes of spot removal with Liliana. Ugh. Pithing needle made Stoneblade an easy win actually, it shut down their stuff. I don't care if they have a TNN (I have a bigger one), just don't equip it!
My Match-ups
Shardless BUG: 0-2 (drew 3 Merfolk. 2 Being cursecatchers. It wasn't enough)
Some punishing fire GR deck thing: 2-0 (easiest match-up all day)
UBW Stoneblade control featuring spot removal, Lilianas (UGH) and Jaces: 0-2
Goblins: 2-0 (person wasn't experienced to be fair)
UW Delver/Stoneblade: 2-0
Okay so I've been reading a lot of what everyone has been playing and I thought I would share my take on merfolk that I'm currently running.
14 Islands
4 Mutavault
2 Mishras Factory
4 Æther Vial
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the pearl trident
4 Phantasmal Image
4 True-Name Nemesis
4 Force of Will
3 Standstill
2 Spell Pierce
2 Jitte
1 Swan Song
Sideboard:
3 Gilded Drake
2 Pithing Needle
3 Submerge
3 Grafdiggers Cage
2 Swan Song
2 Flusterstorm
I'm currently testing for the SCG open in Indiana and really liking this version thus far.
A few things you guys are probably wondering is why would I not play the sacred Daze and Wasteland? Well I find though testing daze is a huge tempo loss and so is wasteland. Normally I want to use vial in conjunction with casting creatures to apply pressure and if I bounce an island and wasteland my opponents land I'm just as far behind if not further. Secondly people expect these cards and by not having them they play around it(which daze is already easy to play around anyways) which gives me an edge. Also by not having wasteland and moving man lands to 6 I can play a lot more aggressively and this further reinforces standstill since I can apply a lot of pressure without needing vial in play.
As for those of you not running Phantasmal Image I think he is too good to not play. Vs dredge he is a bridge remover and can copy their nasty things. Vs reanimator it can copy any nasty threat they put out including Inkwell Leviathan since it doesn't target. Copying Griselbrand is always a good time as well. It can also copy opposing TNNs or if you play against a sweeper heavy deck you can copy your mutavault and be safe from sorcery speed removal/abrupt decay. I like him a lot and prefer him over reejery.
Sideboard is still undetermined but that's my base at the moment. I do like cursed totem as it shuts off elves hard and hits DRS, Lavamancer and SFM along with Griselbrand draw to name a few.
A few things I want to test is another factory in the main and/or 1-3 caverns. I don't know if opening myself up to more wastelands is good(win-win because they are wasting caverns as opposed to man lands I suppose) but more importantly will this hinder my ability to play standstill/spell pierce/swan song and some of my sideboard options if I cut down on islands. I also need to test a one of thassa and Kira in the main or side. Yes a thassa with 5 Devotion is win-more but I feel a lot of people underestimate the every turn scry and the ability to get a non TNN creature through a stalled board state to get counters on jitte or to get around protection or to hit a jace is a valuable ability. Just my take on everything. Would love to hear what you guys think.
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Hi, thank you for posting your list, I've trying to find it for a long time.
It's very similar to what I'm actually testing, however I think the Image should be a 4-of. If you have nothing on the battlefield just copy your opponent's SFM. Copy their Flickerwisps, Delvers or Serra Avengers not to lose on the air. Not having targets it's not usually the problem, and you know more than anyone that TNN + Image it's almost imposible to beat.
I'm currently running Needles in the SB instead of Totems, but I think I would give them a try. I haven't played against Elves very much, but I can imagine it's not the better MU.
I would love to hear your thoughts on any changes, and how you did in that tournament.
I agree with Wasteland + Daze plan not being as strong as it used to be. It's sometimes dificult to play tempo in merfolks. The problem? Deathrite Shaman, it makes that plan unviable. Also the format as it's logical speeds up every year. Also now we're generally playing more 3 drops, and casting Nemesis on turn 4 because of a Wasteland or Daze it's not very impressive...
However I don't think we can cut them and just play aggro. Goblins is much better at that, I would be rather playing it.
I'm not sure if there is a viable path to the classic lists. Saito decks were also interesting, but....
I think at least you should be playing some Back to Basics in the SB. I have that card and I don't run it. But if you're not playing Wastelands, 4 Images and no Reejereys you're probably dead against any punishing deck. (I know TNN helps in there, but it's not always drawn).
Well I have yet to test against punishing jund yet but that deck could be a problem. However. I do see TNN and PI holding their own here and yes it's possible to not see either for a while you can at least keep them busy killing your guys. This is one reason I want to fit a Kira in the mainboard as it will give some needed protection outside of counters which is stalling at best against them.
I don't predict I will run into punishing jund since it hasn't been doing well as of late so people won't be running it most likely.
Goblins has other problems we don't have because blue has all around better answers to things and has more flexible sideboard options as well. I think we can play aggro quite well and tempo long enough with these tools to get to that 20 points.
I've thought about Back to Basics but shutting off a lot of my aggression seems bad. This gets even worse when I draw a creature lite hand and would usually use the vaults/factory's to keep additional pressure.
I think reejery is clunky at 3 mana and if I were to change anything right now it would be to prolly cut one PI for a Kira in the main. Cutting the wastelands and dazes lets this deck swing for lethal a whole turn sooner and gives you less dead draws later in the game when daze becomes worthless.
Yes daze and wasteland are good in a perfect world where you turn1 vial with a wasteland and drop an island next turn holding a daze while you shut them out. But that doesn't happen often.
I still need to test against more matchups and tweak the sideboard a bit. The punishing decks may be an issue but I'm honestly more worried about elves because we don't have a good match up and its a popular deck too.
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