[Deck] Merfolk

[drocker23]

I still have my doubts about what people are cutting to make room for true name nemesis and also how many. he is a good card, but against astone blade matchup where that card is best, theirs will most likely beat yours almost every time because theirs will have an equipment on it, most llikely a jitte, and the general concensus I believe, is moving towards is running sword fire and ice as well. Just because he is a merfolk doesn't necessarily make him an automatic 4 in a merfolk deck

but i wonder if we went back to the old days and started splashing colours again, or playing MD spreading seas, how much better this deck might be in the current meta. Which we should have an advantage as long as we can keep them off jitte, we should be able to kill almost every deck in the format with island walk.

i wonder thinking either a green splash for tarmogoyf, a black splash for dark confidant, or a white splash for stoneforge mystic. Thoughts?

[Dice_Box]

Honestly, if I was to splash it would be red for burn and Price.

I feel that if you are going to splash your better off looking at some of the other blue decks. I feel Delver is a better choice and that fish, while not in the best place right now, is a great anti blue beck and when the meta shifts again will be as effective as it ever was.

[Syntex]

I still have my doubts about what people are cutting to make room for true name nemesis and also how many. he is a good card, but against astone blade matchup where that card is best, theirs will most likely beat yours almost every time because theirs will have an equipment on it, most llikely a jitte, and the general concensus I believe, is moving towards is running sword fire and ice as well. Just because he is a merfolk doesn't necessarily make him an automatic 4 in a merfolk deck

but i wonder if we went back to the old days and started splashing colours again, or playing MD spreading seas, how much better this deck might be in the current meta. Which we should have an advantage as long as we can keep them off jitte, we should be able to kill almost every deck in the format with island walk.

i wonder thinking either a green splash for tarmogoyf, a black splash for dark confidant, or a white splash for stoneforge mystic. Thoughts?

I don't like the splash because it dilutes us a bit. It's nice to be immune to GY hate and splashing for those colors makes us play more nonbasics which leaves us open to a lot more strategies like bloodmoon and wasteland. Also we would need more sources for that color and would play fetch lands to get them unless you play shock lands and now stifle actually has power against us. Bob can kill us flipping a FoW and we have no way to kill it outside of jitte which is narrow at best. Yes stoneforge is annoying but I rather just pithing needle whatever they search for and say go. A kira would handle the ability for SoF&I shock ability an you just race them. TNN profitably blocks jitte and batter skull preventing life gain and counters but if they resolve either of those on a TNN you may have problems yes but not every deck will answer everything. Pithing needle is a good start and if the matchup becomes a big problem we can find more answers but until then I think we got decent game against them and pithing needle is a good catch all.

Honestly, if I was to splash it would be red for burn and Price.

I feel that if you are going to splash your better off looking at some of the other blue decks. I feel Delver is a better choice and that fish, while not in the best place right now, is a great anti blue beck and when the meta shifts again will be as effective as it ever was.

I agree. By branching into different colors you weaken the strengths of the deck for other things. It's like building a better wall with bricks from the wall in your backyard, you leave yourself open in a different spot.

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[Windmill]

In this meta if I was going to splash for any color, it would be red. But I don't see why we would. Earlier in the thread I mused about a white splash, mainly with STP in mind. But then someone pointed out dismember. Blue has all of the things we need: I don't see why we should splash and open up our mana base to be weakened for no good cause.

For my local meta consisting of the following:

Reanimator
Shardless BUG
Esperblade
UW Delver Blade
Red Stompy
Miracles
Occasional weird combos (no show and tell)
Affinity
Goblins

I've crafted the following deck based off my playing tournament:

4 x Cursecatcher
4 x Silvergill
4 x Lord of Atlantis
4 x Pearl Trident
4 x Phantasmal Image
3 x True-Name Nemesis
3 x Kira the Glass Spinner

4 x Aether Vial
4 x FOW
3 x Daze
1 x Spell Pierce
2 x Dismember

13 x Island
4 x Wasteland
3 x Mutavault

I agree that Wasteland can be a huge tempo-loss. However that is why I think that we need to be less wasteland happy and try and read our opponent. Sometimes I wastelanded and they just had another land to play, and it set me back horribly. Even if we go down to 1 land, if it stops our opponents from hitting 3 land that is often incredible because lots of decks have horrible, scary threats at 3.

I also don't like daze. It shores up any super-fast combo nonsense (to an extent) but it also is just a dead card very, very fast. I would only replace it with counters - maybe spell pierces?

Here is my sideboard:

4 x Graveyard hate (dredge won our tournament because other decks weren't prepared like me)
4 x Pithing Needle (wrecks stoneblade and is our best chance. Sword of Fire and Ice is devastating against us - we can name that once they fetch for it, or any fetch)
2 x Dismember
2 x Jitte
3 x Spell Pierce

I decided to pack in Kira instead of Jittes, because she actually makes sense. She can block the frustrating pests that affinity have in the first game and she can fly over goblins in the first game. I'll then side her out for jittes and dismembers. Against other decks she could very well be MVP, since I folded hard to spot removal in the tourney. I've never played with her - why has she been cut over time?

[Dice_Box]

I have cut one Daze for FlusterStorm, meta dependent of course. I loath to cut them totally. On the Play they are living death to some decks. Goblins and DnT just hate you when you Daze their Vial's. I will agree its a dead draw late in the game though. I have had a totally inconsequential elf Dazed before "Because it was the only time this game daze would do anything". I think keep at least 2 in the 75. I would go 2/1 main side personally with Fluster in its place. I have spell pierce main already so I did not bother to move them around.

Counter Lineup:
Force x 4 Main
Spell Pierce x2 main 1 side
FlusterStorm 1x Main 2x side
Daze 3x main 1x Side.

[Windmill]

I think that if we're going to run daze we run 3 or 4-of. Daze is usually only useful in the very very early game, so we want to open with it, and not draw it. If there are only 2-of in the deck then we dilute its power. Its kinda an all-in thing.

[Syntex]

I think that if we're going to run daze we run 3 or 4-of. Daze is usually only useful in the very very early game, so we want to open with it, and not draw it. If there are only 2-of in the deck then we dilute its power. Its kinda an all-in thing.

Which is why I just abandoned it all together so late on all my draws outside of land are useful cards and not dead filler.

Cutting them also lets me fit in better counters and a few more creatures/standstills/jitte mainboard.

[drocker23]

why do we keep cutting standstill?

We should probably be considering Llawan out of the board. It's how merfolk handled progenitus and the mirror back in the day. I see no reason why playing Llawan vs. True name nemesis would be any worse.

also i understand cutting coralhelm commander because we dont want to stick all of our mana into it just to have it abrupt decayed. But why are we cutting merrow reejery? cutting 4 more lords seems wrong because it makes our creatures worse overall, making us overcompensate with true name nemesis. Plus the tap/untap ability was always pretty good. So why cut reejery?// Deck: Legacy Merfolk (60)

// Lands
12 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland

// Creatures
4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Merrow Reejerey
2 Phantasmal Image
4 Silvergill Adept
2 True-Name Nemesis

// Spells
4 Daze
2 Dismember
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
4 Æther Vial

// Sideboard

This is roughly what I think a merfolk list should look like. Either with standstill, dismember, or jitte. Not sure which one though. if adding standstill, you may cut 1 reejery or maybe even the 4th daze to make room for the 3rd standstill. otherwise i think the dismember slots could be either it or jitte.

[Windmill]

In regards to Reejery, whenever I play with him, I am underwhelmed - all the time. Why? Because he is a 3cc and we play wasteland and spell pierce.

Usually what happens is by the time I'm on 2 mana, I have drawn a wasteland. I look in my hand, and know that my Reejery at 3cc is nowhere near as scary as their Liliana or Jace. So I tend to drop my wasteland, and destroy their land, and then play a 2cc. Or, I want to keep mana open for spell pierce. Is that the wrong decision? Maybe. Hitting a 4th land can be a challenge - and usually, I don't want to, I just want to draw another 2cc creature - OR a TNN. And i I hit 4 land, there is a good chance there is a mutavault there. Or 2. What am I going to do: cast Reejery, or cast a 2cc card and play a mutavault and attack? I know which.

In today's faster meta, I know what I usually want: phantasmal image. Phantasmal image is 2cc which is perfect for me. He is stupidly powerful, but his downsides keep me from wanting to run 4 because it feels too fragile, but he is usually nuts and the perfect cc. I normally only cast Reejery if desperate, or as a win-more card.

Now: I play TNN and (will test) Kira. These are 3cc. But I am not worried about playing these cards, because if they hit - they will do tonnes, very quickly. Kira will protect my guys, relevant for my meta with lots of spot removal and an evasion body to hit planeswalkers. TNN gives us inevitability.

So: that is my problem. In theory I want Reejery but in practice I don't.

Which is why I just abandoned it all together so late on all my draws outside of land are useful cards and not dead filler.

Cutting them also lets me fit in better counters and a few more creatures/standstills/jitte mainboard.

The problem though is that legacy is fast, stupidly fast, and dazes help us manage stupid plays on t1-2. Now, in my meta, I might want to actually consider cutting it because we lack combo. But if your meta has combo at all, then not having daze seems like a massive risk.

[Syntex]

In regards to Reejery, whenever I play with him, I am underwhelmed - all the time. Why? Because he is a 3cc and we play wasteland and spell pierce.

Usually what happens is by the time I'm on 2 mana, I have drawn a wasteland. I look in my hand, and know that my Reejery at 3cc is nowhere near as scary as their Liliana or Jace. So I tend to drop my wasteland, and destroy their land, and then play a 2cc. Or, I want to keep mana open for spell pierce. Is that the wrong decision? Maybe. Hitting a 4th land can be a challenge - and usually, I don't want to, I just want to draw another 2cc creature - OR a TNN. And i I hit 4 land, there is a good chance there is a mutavault there. Or 2. What am I going to do: cast Reejery, or cast a 2cc card and play a mutavault and attack? I know which.

In today's faster meta, I know what I usually want: phantasmal image. Phantasmal image is 2cc which is perfect for me. He is stupidly powerful, but his downsides keep me from wanting to run 4 because it feels too fragile, but he is usually nuts and the perfect cc. I normally only cast Reejery if desperate, or as a win-more card.

Now: I play TNN and (will test) Kira. These are 3cc. But I am not worried about playing these cards, because if they hit - they will do tonnes, very quickly. Kira will protect my guys, relevant for my meta with lots of spot removal and an evasion body to hit planeswalkers. TNN gives us inevitability.

So: that is my problem. In theory I want Reejery but in practice I don't.


The problem though is that legacy is fast, stupidly fast, and dazes help us manage stupid plays on t1-2. Now, in my meta, I might want to actually consider cutting it because we lack combo. But if your meta has combo at all, then not having daze seems like a massive risk.

It might be a risk but also can trick opponents which is a valuable tool that isn't dismissed lightly. I mean if you were to sit down with a esper stone blade list and see I'm playing merfolk are you really going to drop a mystic on turn 2 knowing I probably have a daze? No. You will wait till turn 3 til its clear. That right there is the advantage. Likewise they will prolly fetch a basic land or two so I can't wasteland their lands, also another advantage. Now we play force of will so we have some combo protection but also have 4 curse catcher and in my version 2 spell pierce and a swan song. I think that is plenty. That's 4 ways with us on the draw and 8 on the play to do stuff.

The issue really is if daze helps us vs a majority of the field and does the loss of daze with the replaced cards in place of them better or worsen our matchups?


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[EpicLevelCommoner]

Me and a friend were discussing TNN and we both came to the conclusion that although its good with lords, it's even better with various equipment. And what better equipment to slap on it than Jitte? Jitte also doubles as removal and life-gain if ya need it. Only thing I'd take out though would be the Dismembers. Thoughts?

[f7eleven]

I don't understand all the anti-Daze talk. Cursecatcher/Wasteland/Daze is such an important part of the deck and I can't see shaving any of those in an unknown metagame. Cursecatcher + Wasteland are what keep Daze relevant longer into games than you'd think. Yes it gets sided out on the draw vs literally every non-combo deck, but it's an all-star of the deck when we're on the play.

As for Merrow Reejerey - I missed him when I tested with zero, while also occasionally getting Image-flooded (a 4x). So switching an Image to Reejerey made sense. The cut for the 2nd Reejerey was the 2nd main-deck Spell Pierce. This improves the D&T matchup which is a super close matchup. The 21st land is also in there mostly for the D&T matchup, letting you more easily play through Wasteland/Thalia/Port and also giving you an extra blue source for TNN. I tried a Cavern here initially, but it was consistently bad - either getting Wastelanded or being much worse than an Island for Dazing purposes.

I've seen this mentioned before, but you don't automatically side out Lord of Atlantis in the mirror. You 100% definitely want to keep them in on the play! Being on the play in this matchup is maybe the only time you don't want to interact, and curving out is the main goal. Against everyone else you're never really "trying" to curve out... you just usually happen to do so while stifling them with counters and Wasteland.

[Windmill]

It might be a risk but also can trick opponents which is a valuable tool that isn't dismissed lightly. I mean if you were to sit down with a esper stone blade list and see I'm playing merfolk are you really going to drop a mystic on turn 2 knowing I probably have a daze? No. You will wait till turn 3 til its clear. That right there is the advantage. Likewise they will prolly fetch a basic land or two so I can't wasteland their lands, also another advantage. Now we play force of will so we have some combo protection but also have 4 curse catcher and in my version 2 spell pierce and a swan song. I think that is plenty. That's 4 ways with us on the draw and 8 on the play to do stuff.

The issue really is if daze helps us vs a majority of the field and does the loss of daze with the replaced cards in place of them better or worsen our matchups?


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It is definitely meta dependent. But upon reflection, I have plenty of people who won't play around my daze on T1-2. They just have too many threats, and they are so good, that they'll try and lock out as quickly as possible. T1 they'll play some mana ramp and combo into something ridiculous. If I'm on the draw I can't help it unless I drew FOW. But if I'm on the play? Daze is a life saver.

On top of that, there are just so many T2 plays that are terrifying. Stoneforge Mystic (before sideboard when I board in my playset of pithing needles)? Check. Shaman + 2 land to ramp into Liliana to take over the board and make me sac my only cursecatcher which can't do anything to stop Liliana? Check. I know in my meta, these plays are too devastating, too common and people will try and jam them. Outside of FOW, Daze is my only hope. If they play TNN and I have a vial on 2 with a phantasmal image in hand, I let it resolve, put on my troll face and copy it ;)

Deathrite Shaman is just the worst to play against when it comes to daze.

I don't understand all the anti-Daze talk. Cursecatcher/Wasteland/Daze is such an important part of the deck and I can't see shaving any of those in an unknown metagame. Cursecatcher + Wasteland are what keep Daze relevant longer into games than you'd think. Yes it gets sided out on the draw vs literally every non-combo deck, but it's an all-star of the deck when we're on the play.

As for Merrow Reejerey - I missed him when I tested with zero, while also occasionally getting Image-flooded (a 4x). So switching an Image to Reejerey made sense. The cut for the 2nd Reejerey was the 2nd main-deck Spell Pierce. This improves the D&T matchup which is a super close matchup. The 21st land is also in there mostly for the D&T matchup, letting you more easily play through Wasteland/Thalia/Port and also giving you an extra blue source for TNN. I tried a Cavern here initially, but it was consistently bad - either getting Wastelanded or being much worse than an Island for Dazing purposes.

I've seen this mentioned before, but you don't automatically side out Lord of Atlantis in the mirror. You 100% definitely want to keep them in on the play! Being on the play in this matchup is maybe the only time you don't want to interact, and curving out is the main goal. Against everyone else you're never really "trying" to curve out... you just usually happen to do so while stifling them with counters and Wasteland.

I agree that with cursecatcher, daze continues to stay much more relevant. Utterly useless against planeswalkers and stoneforge mystic though... which right now are the T1 cards killing me in my meta :( I suspect I wasn't drawing enough creatures.

In the mirror I'd keep him in, I think. I run more creatures than usual and he then equals more bodies. Against another Merfolk deck, I want to swarm the board before they do - don't I want to be dropping creature after creature - otherwise I'm losing the race?

[drocker23]

so i guess the biggest question is:

is merfolk a viable option in the meta vs all these delver and sfm decks with tnn?

[BVB09]

so i guess the biggest question is:

is merfolk a viable option in the meta vs all these delver and sfm decks with tnn?

I think TNN is what's making viable Merfolks in the actual meta. We don't fear a opposing TNN as other decks do, sometimes even we benefit (Phantasmal Image).
And if the abundance of TNN decks makes combo appear more we would be facing a very favorable meta.

[Windmill]

so i guess the biggest question is:

is merfolk a viable option in the meta vs all these delver and sfm decks with tnn?

100% yes I do - actually and I (naively?) think it is to our advantage.

The real threat in the SFM deck is the equipment, which is brutual on a TNN. The one I hate the most? Sword of Fire and Ice. Hit for 5+ (if there is a LoA then they get buffed too), maybe kill a dude, and then draw a card. Owch. Jitte also just kills our dudes - not fun.

An unanswered Delver isn't the worst thing in the world because we can vial in a phantasmal image, copy and block, or hope to draw one of our few dismembers. But if it gets a SoF&I on it - not GG at all but going that way. Unfortunately, when they search for their Jitte or Sword of Fire & Ice it only costs 2-3 to play, so we can't just dismember their Stoneforge and cut off Batterskull like in the past.

So the question is: what can we do to answer the equipment, MD, before sideboarding? Here are my current answers:

- Counter their Stoneforge Mystic (so either FOW or Daze)
- Dismember their Stoneforge Mystic and then counter their equipment as a last-resort
- Dismember their Stoneforge Mystic and then counter their TNN so they only have equipment
- Answer their delver with either an early Dismember, then outrace their TNN. Vialing in a copy of TNN is a great idea.

So our key cards against this deck before sideboard are:

FOW
Daze
Dismember
Phantasmal Image
Aether Vial
Maybe Spell Pierce

IMHO I think our best sideboard tool against them is pithing needle. Let them fetch the equipment with stoneforge, then name their equipment. Suddenly, their deck becomes much less scary. But before this, we need answers to try and not fold in game 1.

Another problem is that these decks have lots of spot removal from experience. 4 STP and 4 PTE. Owch. Black varieties pack Liliana (uggh) and most varieties seem to pack Jace who bounces our guys back (less devastating) That is why TNN and Phantasmal Image will be MVP probably, because at the end step we can copy their TNN and then swing at the planeswalkers unanswered. Our TNN is also resistant to spot removal. The rise in these decks has made me bring Kira back as well to my MD so far. I think though that in an unknown meta, it might be good to use Kira's spot as more counters/standstills to shore-up game 1 combo more, rely on your other tools to try and win game 1, and have Kira as a sideboard card.

Now: why I think this is good for us, is that more people are giving up non-blue decks to play blue decks instead because of ridiculous TNN nonsense. This means more blue decks which mean less Jund and more island walk. Legacy is becoming more homogeneous too, which means we can build our decks to be meta-breaking, and Merfolk has a lot of flexibility. I also think it will shift the meta over time likely to combo because combo doesn't GAF, and splash-hate against TNN will hit Elves too, so the blue combos will probably be back in full-swing which is what we want.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Might be a janky idea, but what about a 2-of-Phyrexian Metamorph in the side to swap with Phantasmal Image against SFM.dec? I mean, it's not gonna be easy to vial in, and it'll cost either 4 CMC or 3 CMC + 2 Life, but copying their equipment would allow us to outrace them with a few merlords on the field ... right?

[Windmill]

Might be a janky idea, but what about a 2-of-Phyrexian Metamorph in the side to swap with Phantasmal Image against SFM.dec? I mean, it's not gonna be easy to vial in, and it'll cost either 4 CMC or 3 CMC + 2 Life, but copying their equipment would allow us to outrace them with a few merlords on the field ... right?

OR, we could just play pithing needle for 1 mana? Trades nicely for dazes and/or cursecatchers which I'm guessing is what we'd sideboard out in this match-up (maybe FOWs instead of cursecatchers? I'm not very experienced in sideboarding). Copying their equipment and fighting a losing battle (they'll get to attack first) seems silly when we can just shut their game plan down instead.

[bryce]

Might be a janky idea, but what about a 2-of-Phyrexian Metamorph in the side to swap with Phantasmal Image against SFM.dec? I mean, it's not gonna be easy to vial in, and it'll cost either 4 CMC or 3 CMC + 2 Life, but copying their equipment would allow us to outrace them with a few merlords on the field ... right?

hmm...I like it.

[Windmill]

This isn't my list, but this is a list I'd take to an unknown meta right now. Questionable on the 4 x daze choice.

Main Board

4 x Cursecatcher
4 x Silvergill Adept
4 x Lord of Atlantis
4 x Master of the Pearl Trident
4 x True-Name Nemesis
4 x Phantasmal Image

4 x Aether Vial

4 x Force of Will
4 x Daze
2 x Spell Pierce
2 x Dismember

Sideboard

4 x Pithing Needle
3 x Grafdiggers Cage (debatable)
1 x Surgical Extraction
2 x Standstill (OR more counters?)
1 x Swan Song
1 x Dismember
1 x Jitte
2 x Kira, the Great Glass Spinner (maybe 2 x Chalice of the Void if you expect elves?)

Just chucking this out there for discussion. Designed to deal with blue-based combo, aggro and TNN decks. I think it would have problems against Elves, Jund and ANT.