[Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

[Zombie]

I'm going to hold off on updating the sideboard guide, I don't think my sideboard is likely to stay. I'm considering some changes, mainly a lack of Carpet of Flowers. It was fine, but I want to try to add in a Massacre and something else (Chain of Vapor/Discard spell).

Grapeshot
Empty the Warrens
Tendrils of Agony
Past in Flames
Diminishing Returns

Thoughtseize
Massacre
Tropical Island
2x Abrupt Decay

3x Xantrid Swarm
2x Chain of Vapor

Seems fine to me?

[Bryant Cook]

I'm not convinced that Chain would be better than a discard spell to side in versus blue decks/creature decks. If a second discard spell is better, what would it be? Duress, Inquisition of Kozilek or Thoughtseize?

[SScout]

I'm not convinced that Chain would be better than a discard spell to side in versus blue decks/creature decks. If a second discard spell is better, what would it be? Duress, Inquisition of Kozilek or Thoughtseize?

I think for the threats TES seems to face Duress does the most work. In saying that, IoK hits things like Thalia and Ethersworn, but misses the main counter to the deck in FoW. I've seen it discussed here before about Thoughtseize's life cost being too much if you're already on a clock and an Ad Nauseum is likely but it really is the only discard that can hit everything.
EDIT: "that can hit everything without prior information (like Cabal)"

That doesn't really give a conclusive answer, but if I had to give one I'd be tempted to say Thoughseize is too good to pass up (even with the 2 life cost).

On a side note, what stops you from playing the 4th silence in the sideboard? Merely food for thought, i have no justification for it as yet :P

[mario91234]

Why are we sb-ing massacre? if its for MM they just name wish anyhow defeating it.

Massacre only seems good vs D&T. This then lets us reduce chain of vapor in the sb. Is this good?

[Bryant Cook]

I think for the threats TES seems to face Duress does the most work. In saying that, IoK hits things like Thalia and Ethersworn, but misses the main counter to the deck in FoW. I've seen it discussed here before about Thoughtseize's life cost being too much if you're already on a clock and an Ad Nauseum is likely but it really is the only discard that can hit everything.
EDIT: "that can hit everything without prior information (like Cabal)"

That doesn't really give a conclusive answer, but if I had to give one I'd be tempted to say Thoughseize is too good to pass up (even with the 2 life cost).

On a side note, what stops you from playing the 4th silence in the sideboard? Merely food for thought, i have no justification for it as yet :P

I had the same thought regarding Silence, but it comes down to only being good against blue decks. I'd like something that I can bring in versus non-blue decks as well.

Why are we sb-ing massacre? if its for MM they just name wish anyhow defeating it.

Massacre only seems good vs D&T. This then lets us reduce chain of vapor in the sb. Is this good?

I've had Meddling Mage not name Burning Wish, I mean, it happens. The decks that play Mage have access to your hand through Probe, Thoughtseize and/or Clique. Sometimes they know you're sitting on Dark Ritual and will name that. It's a higher impact card that I think is worth playing, it also kills Stoneforge Mystic/Delver out of those decks. I think it's worth testing.

[mario91234]

I agree with you. The alternative cards also happen to die to MM on wish. Is massacre better than deathmark becomes the question.

[BrettF]

I played a tournament with both Massacre and Deathmark in the sideboard. Massacre is better to leave in the board for wishing, while i ended up boarding in the deathmark along with the CoVs. (Where it also wasn't much better than a CoV)

[Bryant Cook]

I went deep tonight. I swear this is not a stolen idea from Brian Demar's article this week, although, it would appear to be. I was just texting Royce and I was typing in my phone, "wouldn't it be awesome if we had protection that also killed Meddling Mage?" Light bulb.

I'm going to start playing some very old tech. Pyroblast. Has applications against Vendilion Clique and Counterbalance as well, I really like this. Only downside is that it doesn't protect when we need to use Lion's Eye Diamond.

[SScout]

I went deep tonight. I swear this is not a stolen idea from Brian Demar's article this week, although, it would appear to be. I was just texting Royce and I was typing in my phone, "wouldn't it be awesome if we had protection that also killed Meddling Mage?" Light bulb.

I'm going to start playing some very old tech. Pyroblast. Has applications against Vendilion Clique and Counterbalance as well, I really like this. Only downside is that it doesn't protect when we need to use Lion's Eye Diamond.

It does fit the slot well.. Would you keep it as a 1-of or throw 2 in?

The biggest downside, how are you going to get Japanese foils?

[Lemnear]

The last time we tested Massacre as a Wish target in TES we stumbled over the fact, that you need to have one of 2 U.Seas in play. For hatebears i rather recommend the Pyroclasm as sweeper which is even boardable in case of Meddling Mage naming Wish.

REB Sounds nice, but it failed to handle problems in the past. Counterbalance, Clique and Meddling Mage sound spicy as targets, but isn't that why we ran Decays for (obviously, Clique to a lesser extend)? At least I'm used to board in Decays against UWR because of all the Cannonist, Meddling Mages, SFM i've had to handle in the past

[Bryant Cook]

It does fit the slot well.. Would you keep it as a 1-of or throw 2 in?

The biggest downside, how are you going to get Japanese foils?

I have two sleeved up in my sideboard over what were the Carpet of Flowers. I still have Japanese fifth edition Pyroblasts! I black bordered them.

The last time we tested Massacre as a Wish target in TES we stumbled over the fact, that you need to have one of 2 U.Seas in play. For hatebears i rather recommend the Pyroclasm as sweeper which is even boardable in case of Meddling Mage naming Wish.

REB Sounds nice, but it failed to handle problems in the past. Counterbalance, Clique and Meddling Mage sound spicy as targets, but isn't that why we ran Decays for (obviously, Clique to a lesser extend)? At least I'm used to board in Decays against UWR because of all the Cannonist, Meddling Mages, SFM i've had to handle in the past

Yeah, I'm over Massacre for now. Even if I did just buy a Japanese foil one on eBay. We effectively have five swamps, which I think is passable. Massacre is free, meaning we don't spend multiple turns Wishing and then casting. Not to mention that Massacre is an answer to Mother of Runes plus Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. It's interesting that you can side in Pyroclasm, I'll have to keep that in mind.

Well, it would be Pyroblast not Red Elemental Blast. Pyroblast you can cast targeting nothing to become Hellbent or to increase the storm count, you can't do these with Red Elemental Blast. And... you're wrong, I quit running Pyroblast after GP: Indianapolis in 2012 because I needed sideboard disruption spells that also answered the massive amounts of Thalia that were everywhere. On the way home from Indy I bought Japanese foil Inquisition of Kozileks and that was the last we heard of Pyroblast, until now. Currently, we have those discard spells in the main deck meaning we have some sideboard space available to cast an old favorite. I don't sideboard in Abrupt Decay versus UWr Delver for what it's worth, seems awful. I really only sideboard in Decay versus blue decks if I have to, it's miserable to draw Naturalize when you're attempting to fight through a handful of Counterspells.

I definitely think this is a move in the right direction, I'm pretty excited.

[mario91234]

This takes me back to when i first picked up the deck. I'm extremely excited. Looking forward to you official sb before vegas.


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[SaberTooth]

what do you think about toxic deluge? seems more like an ANT card, but it could work

[vercadium]

We're deploying a new website in work, so I'm very busy at the moment. Exciting ideas indeed though - expect a comprehensive response/opinion from me within the next few days.

[davelin]

I just recently 5-for-1'ed a Elves player with Pyroclasm. Mysterious "lost connection" two seconds later.

[Lemnear]

Yeah, I'm over Massacre for now. Even if I did just buy a Japanese foil one on eBay. We effectively have five swamps, which I think is passable. Massacre is free, meaning we don't spend multiple turns Wishing and then casting. Not to mention that Massacre is an answer to Mother of Runes plus Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. It's interesting that you can side in Pyroclasm, I'll have to keep that in mind.

Well, it would be Pyroblast not Red Elemental Blast. Pyroblast you can cast targeting nothing to become Hellbent or to increase the storm count, you can't do these with Red Elemental Blast. And... you're wrong, I quit running Pyroblast after GP: Indianapolis in 2012 because I needed sideboard disruption spells that also answered the massive amounts of Thalia that were everywhere. On the way home from Indy I bought Japanese foil Inquisition of Kozileks and that was the last we heard of Pyroblast, until now. Currently, we have those discard spells in the main deck meaning we have some sideboard space available to cast an old favorite. I don't sideboard in Abrupt Decay versus UWr Delver for what it's worth, seems awful. I really only sideboard in Decay versus blue decks if I have to, it's miserable to draw Naturalize when you're attempting to fight through a handful of Counterspells.

I definitely think this is a move in the right direction, I'm pretty excited.

@Massacre
Wouldn't be the first time I see my U.Sea wasted in response to Wish, just saying. For a few weeks, I had 2 Clasm + GS in the side as hatebears and Elves were rampant.


I have the gut feeling, that Pyroblast is strange to be run alongside of Decays. I just have in mind that the Decays binned too many Cannonists/Counterbalance since BoM, that I would streamline my SB unless the argument is: "I focus on killing turn 1 or 2 against decks with Thalia and Cannonist, can handle Meddling Mage/Clique/Counterbalance cheaper but with more risk and have an additional card to board against Show&Tell!"

... otherwise you could run Deathmark or Disfigure as well

what do you think about toxic deluge? seems more like an ANT card, but it could work

It's a 5 mana solution that costs life in a deck that operates on life. No, this is not a solution if hatebears are a problem for you

[anakyn]

I know I'm dealing with a sacred cow, but maybe it's time to play Massacre in place of Grapeshot, and leaving slots open for more Discard/Chains...

I tried both Massacre and Pyroclasm vs hatebears.decks and I prefer Massacre: it's true sometimes we can't use it because they just wastelanded our Sea, but with Thalia in play Wish + Clasm is going to cost 3+3 mana total, which is too much vs strong mana denial plans like D&T. Also, as Briant already said, Massacre goes over Mom's protection, and that's pretty crucial.
Massacre seems worse than Pyroclasm only vs Gaddock, but Maverick isn't much played nowadays.

[Lemnear]

I know I'm dealing with a sacred cow, but maybe it's time to play Massacre in place of Grapeshot, and leaving slots open for more Discard/Chains...

I tried both Massacre and Pyroclasm vs hatebears.decks and I prefer Massacre: it's true sometimes we can't use it because they just wastelanded our Sea, but with Thalia in play Wish + Clasm is going to cost 3+3 mana total, which is too much vs strong mana denial plans like D&T. Also, as Briant already said, Massacre goes over Mom's protection, and that's pretty crucial.
Massacre seems worse than Pyroclasm only vs Gaddock, but Maverick isn't much played nowadays.

Dunno, I tend to roll over pure hatebear matchups *shrug*. I'm more concered if those are paired with discard or counters like in Esper Deathblade or UWR, where they can just disrupt your plan of pyroblasting their Meddling Mage or laugh at your blast if they run Cannonist instead like most did on the BoM

[Bryant Cook]

I know I'm dealing with a sacred cow, but maybe it's time to play Massacre in place of Grapeshot, and leaving slots open for more Discard/Chains...

I tried both Massacre and Pyroclasm vs hatebears.decks and I prefer Massacre: it's true sometimes we can't use it because they just wastelanded our Sea, but with Thalia in play Wish + Clasm is going to cost 3+3 mana total, which is too much vs strong mana denial plans like D&T. Also, as Briant already said, Massacre goes over Mom's protection, and that's pretty crucial.
Massacre seems worse than Pyroclasm only vs Gaddock, but Maverick isn't much played nowadays.

Well, for starters my name is Bryant. I have it all over the god damn place.

Secondly, Grapeshot does much more than kill creatures. I can think of a few events where I wouldn't have been successful if it wasn't for Grapeshot. SCG: Philly being a recent memory that comes to mind. I was only considering Massacre because I wanted the ability to side in Grapeshot against UWr counting as a main deck win condition to win around Meddling Mage as well as removal. But now that I'm on Pyroblast, I won't be needing Massacre.

Alright, now that the bad ideas are out of the way...

@Massacre
I have the gut feeling, that Pyroblast is strange to be run alongside of Decays. I just have in mind that the Decays binned too many Cannonists/Counterbalance since BoM, that I would streamline my SB unless the argument is: "I focus on killing turn 1 or 2 against decks with Thalia and Cannonist, can handle Meddling Mage/Clique/Counterbalance cheaper but with more risk and have an additional card to board against Show&Tell!"

... otherwise you could run Deathmark or Disfigure as well

Pyroblast is probably the most versatile card we've had in that slot in awhile, it's an additional card to side in versus Counterbalance matchups, kills Delver/Clique/Meddling Mage, provides additional cards for Show and Tell Matchups as well as being able to be sided in against Tempo decks. I fail to see how it's not streamlining the deck.

[anakyn]

Maybe it's just me being not too much experienced with TES, but I found out D&T to be an harsh matchup: yes we can combo before they can land Thalia or any other hatebear, and we can make them discard their Batterskull with our Therapy / Warren synergy after we already landed our Goblins, but fact is we need a strong hand and/or being on the play, while they can begin their massive hate on turn 2 even with a mediocre hand, and from that point on seems like an uphill battle to me.

Being faster than their hate is the main plan of course, but since it doesn't happen that often I guess we should keep another door open, in which case Massacre seems like the best option right now.