Would you like to see True-Name Nemesis gone?

[Myelectronicdays]

If we're going for prevention effects, mise well turn their 7 turn clock into a 20 turn clock:

still my favorite card <3

[Erdvermampfa]

Since we are now making fun of all those ridiculously bad 'answers' to TNN that people come up to suggest in defense of it, I think we can safely say what the actual conclusion of this thread is...

[Koby]

Since we are now making fun of all those ridiculously bad 'answers' to TNN that people come up to suggest in defense of it, I think we can safely say what the actual conclusion of this thread is...

... to point out there's a ton of chicken littles in this community.

[ESG]

Well, if you want to play in a format with an oppresive ban list where all the good cards are not being played, there's a format for you.http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Res...rces/sfrmodern

This type of response is probably the single most useless retort in the thread. Legacy and Modern aren't comparable at all. I actually played in a big Modern tournament, for the first time, last weekend. I ran Affinity. I played four Affinity mirror matches out of six rounds. It was not fun. Kayradis, have you actually played Modern?

Scott's comparison to post-9/11 politics is right on ("If you don't like America, you can giiit out").

Sure, that's evidence of its format-warping nature, but what is a format without its all-stars?

I'm glad we've at least reached the point where some people freely admit that format warping is occurring.

The format maybe needs a bit more time to adapt. True-Name Nemesis wasn't a good addition to the metagame/card pool, but I don't think it's "sky is falling" either.

If the sky actually fell, some people would still be saying the contrary. You can look back at every ban thread on these boards, and there were people who defended anything and everything. Time doesn't change what the card is and does; time can only offer the possibility of future cards to mitigate the damage done.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

The Ignore button is a blessed gift to mankind.

The ignored users still make it annoying to read the thread.

[Dragonslayer_90]

I'm glad we've at least reached the point where some people freely admit that format warping is occurring.

Really? I don't see why any rational person would not say that TNN is warping the format, but I find it similar to how Deathrite Shaman warped the format when he came out. Deathrite Shaman decks were everywhere when that guy came out. Eventually the format adjusted and Deathrite Shaman just became one of the best creatures of the format. He didn't warp the format to the point you had to play him in your deck to play a legit deck. This is just how new legacy staples come into the format. They become the center of attention for a little while until the format figures out how to keep the card or deck they are played in in check. I see True-Name Nemesis following a similar path. Then again, it could be that he's worse than Deathrite and the bugger will have to get banned eventually. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

[KobeBryan]

Really? I don't see why any rational person would not say that TNN is warping the format, but I find it similar to how Deathrite Shaman warped the format when he came out. Deathrite Shaman decks were everywhere when that guy came out. Eventually the format adjusted and Deathrite Shaman just became one of the best creatures of the format. He didn't warp the format to the point you had to play him in your deck to play a legit deck. This is just how new legacy staples come into the format. They become the center of attention for a little while until the format figures out how to keep the card or deck they are played in in check. I see True-Name Nemesis following a similar path. Then again, it could be that he's worse than Deathrite and the bugger will have to get banned eventually. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

If anything, delver and deathrite shaman is more oppressive than TNN

[warai]

If anything, delver and deathrite shaman is more oppressive than TNN

How many deck strategies are not viable anymore because of TNN? That is one of the key points for a card to get a ban.

Rug delver is the big loser with this TNN meta imo.

[KobeBryan]

How many deck strategies are not viable anymore because of TNN? That is one of the key points for a card to get a ban.

Rug delver is the big loser with this TNN meta imo.

I can't name of any deck that makes TNN oppressive to the point where it is play or go home.

Delver is probably more rampant than TNN in winning games at this point. a 3/2 for 1 mana is outrageous. then a 1/2 for 1 mana with 3 different abilities and the ability to control the GY...that is overpowered.

but a 3/1 for UU1 that needs to have an equipment to make it really worthwhile is not that overpowered.

[bjholmes3]

1.) RUG Delver is not dead. It alone has almost the same amount of tops as every TNN deck combined.
2.) Where is the line between warping the format and simply changing it.

[Scott]

Mark Rosewater answering another question about TNN on his blog.

Would thought be given to having True-Name Nemesis receive Errata to sustain its functionality in multiplayer games but not entirely apply to 1v1 games?

That’s not how we want to use errata.

[UnderwaterGuy]

1.) RUG Delver is not dead. It alone has almost the same amount of tops as every TNN deck combined.

Where are you getting that info from? mtgtop8's lists definitely do not show this but maybe they are inaccurate?

[bjholmes3]

TheCouncil, always. MTGTop8 is sketchy for Legacy. Do note, also, the results are from November. I list out the statistics in a post a page or two back in detail.

[ESG]

1.) RUG Delver is not dead. It alone has almost the same amount of tops as every TNN deck combined.

Some RUG Delver decks play TNN. Others are adopting it. I don't see your point. They're taking the "join it" approach.

2.) Where is the line between warping the format and simply changing it.

It hinges on oppressiveness of a card and how that card pushes out other strategies. Delver of Secrets, Deathrite Shaman, and Abrupt Decay changed the format in small ways: Delver of Secrets gave tempo decks a faster clock; Deathrite Shaman gave ramp, color fixing, and more to anyone with black or green duals; Abrupt Decay provided a way to break out of CounterTop lock, while also having utility against other permanents (chief among them Delver of Secrets). True-Name Nemesis, by contrast, is warping the format: It turns the format on its head into ignoring it (combo decks) or playing it (TNN decks). The rest of the meta is small. Creatureless control decks should be decent, but they are currently underrepresented. The data you provided was from November. I expect the December data to reflect the warping that has been occurring the past few weeks as more people start running Nemesis or switching to combo decks.

[Nielsie]

To everybody saying that there are enough answers, well, how about we unban for example Mishra's Workshop? The most played non-basic is Wasteland, that's a good answer for Workshop it's so good that almost every deck already includes it. Or how about Dustbowl, Ghost Quarter, Sinkhole, Small Pox, Pox, Molten Rain, Stone Rain,... I can go on all day... Even Force of Will will work because it counters the stuff that gets cast with Workshop. Answers enough

Every card on the banlist has answers...

Do I have to go play Vintage now because I proposed this?

Though I do agree that this poll is poorly worded. I think it should have said: "Would you prefer that True-Name Nemesis had never been printed?"

[Higgs]

Because we can't go back in time yet and undo a mistake, the closest we can get is taking back a mistake. If you'd rather it had not been printed then your best alternative is banning it.

I really don't understand people re-iterating a long list of narrow, and mostly completely useless except for TNN, answers to advocate not banning. Just because there is an answer for a card doesn't mean that it is a healthy, balanced design. You can Disenchant, Wear/Tear, Qasali Pridemage or Serenity a Necropotence but does it mean that it's a healthy card for the format? You can REB, Spell Pierce, Counterspell, FoW or Meddling Mage a Tinker but is it an OK card?

[Echelon]

Going back in time to undo it's printing is pointless since doing so would prevent you from having a reason to travel back in time in the first place, causing you not to travel back in time to undo the printing of TNN.

[Higgs]

Don't get me started on parallel universes and alternative timelines :)

[PirateKing]

Can we all just agree to unban Survival?

[Tylert]

Going back in time to undo it's printing is pointless since doing so would prevent you from having a reason to travel back in time in the first place, causing you not to travel back in time to undo the printing of TNN.

As you can see, TNN still exists today. So even if someone at any time went back (or ahead) in time to undo its printing, apparently it did not work.