[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

[Cire_dk]

i think deck have so many answers that its enought o handle match with combo and fair deck. We are combo too with Thune+Feeder or Melira+Finks+Varolz Infinite life...thune add infinite dmg to it. Anyone think similar like me? it is good deck for playin?

In general Nic Fit is not great against combo because we are to slow. Combo can go of turn 1 or 2. I played against combo several times and unfortunately died turn 1 before I could cast anything. The spikefeeder combo is very nice but takes time to set up.
On the other hand, each deck has its weakness and bad match ups. If you like the deck and get some practice in, it is great to play.
It has been said before but Nic Fit is difficult to pilot well (as I have found out from personal experience )

[pfiremc13]

1 Yosei, the Morning Star
2 Archangel of Thune
3 Academy Rector
1 Sun Titan
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fierce Empath
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Spike Feeder
4 Veteran Explorer

2 Diabolic Intent
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith

3 Sensei's Divining Top

1 Recurring Nightmare
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Oblivion Ring

1 Scrubland
2 Phyrexian Tower
2 Savannah
2 Swamp
3 Bayou
3 Forest
3 Plains
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath

SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Qasali Pridemage
SB: 3 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 2 Nevermore
SB: 1 Nether Void
SB: 3 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 Curse of Death's Hold
SB: 1 Stony Silence
SB: 1 Choke


i think deck have so many answers that its enought o handle match with combo and fair deck. We are combo too with Thune+Feeder or Melira+Finks+Varolz Infinite life...thune add infinite dmg to it. Anyone think similar like me? it is good deck for playin?

The problem with melira combo is that it's really hard to assemble. 3 cards is a lot more than 2, and melira is pretty much dead without kitchen finks or murderous redcap (which you don't even run). I also think 3 rectors is too much because deathrite shaman blanks it.

I've been starting to think that despite the fact that the new legend rule kind of dicks it over, Faith's Fetters may still be correct. Most "jace decks" are down to 2, MAYBE 3 copies due to True-Name having a good matchup against Jace as a card. While it's still not ideal, Fetters does shut down Jace for some number of turns while they need to dig up another one, which could buy us the necessary time to stabilize.

--Edit ---

It should be noted that Exclusion Ritual exists. That being said, I think that Ritual is just too damned expensive, and I remember that the 4 life on Fetters saved my ass more times than I care to admit.

Hmm....

is it testing time?

Since my idyllic tutors aren't in the mainboard, and I don't think I can consistently rely on getting rector into my yard, I think the answer for jace will go in the side. Maybe a maelstrom pulse in the main. The only problem is what to cut from my side.

I'm still thinking about mindbreak trap vs. ethersworn canonist. I think mindbreak trap is harder to deal with, but ethersworn canonist is more versatile (ex. against omnitell and hypergenesis). Is that true? What other decks is canonist good against?

[Arianrhod]

Canonist is good vs Elves, TES, ANT, Belcher, Cheeri0s, OmniTell, Doomsday, Spanish Inq, Hypergenesis, and some other random decks. Some people have brought in Canonist vs Scapewish and it's been annoying if not debilitating -- stops Therapy + flashback, Wish + kill you, etc. I kind of don't like bringing it in from the opposing deck's standpoint, but I can't deny that people have done it and it has (rarely) mattered. This suggests it might also be boardable, in theory, vs wish variants of Aggro Loam.

Pontiff is a reason to play GBW Pod-based versions atm. A tutorable way to kill True-Name is nothing to scoff at.

I wouldn't worry about Deathrite, pfire -- I'd run the full 3 Rectors if you want to play a specifically Rector build. Deathrite is falling out of favor, and you should be running probably around 4 spot removals at the moment anyway (something like 2 Decay, 1 Pulse, 1 Vindicate). Those coupled with your Deeds should be enough ways to get rid of DRS -- plus, a lot of your average legacy players still don't know the DRS trick anyway.

[hymntotourcock]

Arian, represent dude. Links to your video(s)?

[Arianrhod]

Arian, represent dude. Links to your video(s)?

If you google "twitch tales of adventure" you'll find the videos. I'll try to put up a link tonight if I can remember. You'll have to skip around a little until you find where I come on -- the stream is compressed into like 3-4 huge videos.

[Ayotte]

If you google "twitch tales of adventure" you'll find the videos. I'll try to put up a link tonight if I can remember. You'll have to skip around a little until you find where I come on -- the stream is compressed into like 3-4 huge videos.

You're on the first, about an hour in if I remember correctly.

[Megadeus]

Canonist is good vs Elves, TES, ANT, Belcher, Cheeri0s, OmniTell, Doomsday, Spanish Inq, Hypergenesis, and some other random decks. Some people have brought in Canonist vs Scapewish and it's been annoying if not debilitating -- stops Therapy + flashback, Wish + kill you, etc. I kind of don't like bringing it in from the opposing deck's standpoint, but I can't deny that people have done it and it has (rarely) mattered. This suggests it might also be boardable, in theory, vs wish variants of Aggro Loam.

Pontiff is a reason to play GBW Pod-based versions atm. A tutorable way to kill True-Name is nothing to scoff at.

I wouldn't worry about Deathrite, pfire -- I'd run the full 3 Rectors if you want to play a specifically Rector build. Deathrite is falling out of favor, and you should be running probably around 4 spot removals at the moment anyway (something like 2 Decay, 1 Pulse, 1 Vindicate). Those coupled with your Deeds should be enough ways to get rid of DRS -- plus, a lot of your average legacy players still don't know the DRS trick anyway.

I like Canonist the most of any hate bear for a non blue fit deck. I hate MB trap. Any good storm player can easily play around it. It is much better in a fast deck where you can limit the amount of time that they can play around it. Unfortunately nic fit is much too slow most of the time. I think a hard lock piece like Nether Void or something is much more effective. Unless my meta was like 50% T1 combo deck, I would not run MB trap in this deck.

[pfiremc13]

I wouldn't worry about Deathrite, pfire -- I'd run the full 3 Rectors if you want to play a specifically Rector build. Deathrite is falling out of favor, and you should be running probably around 4 spot removals at the moment anyway (something like 2 Decay, 1 Pulse, 1 Vindicate). Those coupled with your Deeds should be enough ways to get rid of DRS -- plus, a lot of your average legacy players still don't know the DRS trick anyway.

Good point.

I like Canonist the most of any hate bear for a non blue fit deck. I hate MB trap. Any good storm player can easily play around it. It is much better in a fast deck where you can limit the amount of time that they can play around it. Unfortunately nic fit is much too slow most of the time. I think a hard lock piece like Nether Void or something is much more effective. Unless my meta was like 50% T1 combo deck, I would not run MB trap in this deck.

Ok then, switching out the traps.

...do realize that I run nether void as well.

------------------------


...I think I'm going to make some swaps in thune fit. I don't know if teeg is worth it in the mainboard. I have no idea what to cut from my side though.

1 Nether Void
1 Humility
2 Thoughtseize
1 Memoricide
1 Cranial Extraction
1 Orzhov Pontiff
3 Carpet of Flowers
1 Harmonic Sliver
2 Idyllic Tutor
2 Ethersworn Canonist

After that, I think I want a mainboard way to deal with jace. This will probably be faith's fetters. I'll also see what maelstrom pulse can do, though I think fetters is just better since it can be tutored for with rector and idyllic.

Have people had problems with batterskull in nic fit?

[Megadeus]

Does no one run Thrun as a way to get at a Jace? In Thune fit you could run Sigarda. Obviously it doesn't KILL Jace. But you know, it kills Jace.

[plogan]

For those of you wondering about the rector version here's my updated list. I've been on rector for over a year now and the deck has served me well. I don't quite understand what the thrill about thune combo is, I simply think it adds too many individually dead cards to the deck. Anyway I'll be running this at a local on Saturday and if anyone wants to pick my brain feel free. Also Exclusion Ritual is pretty great when you put it on a Jace.

The List:

4x Therapy
4x Explorer
4x Green Sun's Zenith
3x Academy Rector
3x Sensei's Divining Top
3x Pernicious Deed
3x Marsh Flats
3x Verdant Catacombs
3x Forest
2x Baneslayer Angel
2x Swamp
2x Plains
2x Windswept Heath
2x Thoughteize
2x Phyrexian Tower
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Sun Titan
1x Eternal Witness
1x Moat
1x Recycle
1x Fierce Empath
1x Kukusho
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Bayou
1x Savannah
1x Scrubland
1x Reccuring Nightmare
1x Thragtusk
1x Sigarada
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Vindicate
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Garruk Relentless

Sideboard:
3x Carpet of Flowers
2x Thalia
2x Golgari Charm
1x Extripate
1x Cranial Extraction
1x Memoricide
1x Nethervoid
1x Teeg
1x Humility
1x Ashen Rider
1x Exclusion Ritual

[jbone2016]

Another small event today with Scapewish.
Beat Painter's Servant (2-0). 1st Turn Blood Moon both games. 1st game didn't matter much. 2nd game I had a Vet to stop him from attacking for a while before deed cleaned up.
Lost to Punishing Jund (0-2). Goyf beats the 1st game. His topdeck were better the 2nd. That's the matchup I miss decays.
Beat UWR delver. (2-0). He kept slow hands both games while I ripped his hand apart.
Drew with White Stax. (1-1) Drew so we both got prizes and drew anyways. A timely deed along with huntmaster sealed the first game. 2nd game his was down to 5 before smokestack took off. He cast Armageddon against me twice. :(

[TakeYourTime]

Brief report from the ToA 40 duals / 40 fetches event on Saturday.
R3: Bugstill

He mulls to 6. He doesn't do anything relevant, and I kill him.

Game two: he mulls to 5, doesn't do anything relevant, and I kill him.

That was me!

It was nice to meet you at the event, I didn't know your Source handle. Congratulations on your finish!



Side note to anyone, which 6-drops have people found to be highly impactful in a GWB shell, and which 6-drops are found to be unimpressive? There are so many True-Name Nemesis floating around that Moat is probably one of the stronger cards to run in Nic Fit.

[Fizzeler]

That was me!

It was nice to meet you at the event, I didn't know your Source handle. Congratulations on your finish!



Side note to anyone, which 6-drops have people found to be highly impactful in a GWB shell, and which 6-drops are found to be unimpressive? There are so many True-Name Nemesis floating around that Moat is probably one of the stronger cards to run in Nic Fit.

Grave Titan, Yosei, and Sun Titan

Still testing others like Armada Wurm and other GSZ non prime time 6 drops

[Arianrhod]

Ah, hey =)

Grave Titan, Yosei, and Sun Titan

Still testing others like Armada Wurm and other GSZ non prime time 6 drops

Pretty much this, although I maintain an intense hatred for Grave Titan. I'd add Primeval Titan and Kokusho to the list -- Primeval needs lands to get, though, and Kokusho is slow to kill, although it will actually kill someone unlike Yosei. They're much more situational, but they'll work.

Also, there is the old Gifts-build tech of Rune-Scarred Demon. I still say that RSD -> Nightmare is just waiting to be broken, even if Gifts isn't the answer. Making Nightmare GSZable, no matter how indirectly, is not something that we should scoff at.

[Arianrhod]

Also, discussion flashpoint:

We've never really considered Tooth and Nail. Should we?

What could we do with it?

What would be the best color setup?

What advantages does it have over something like Scapeshift (I can think of two or three immediately)?

[Ralf]

Also, discussion flashpoint:

We've never really considered Tooth and Nail. Should we?

What could we do with it?

What would be the best color setup?

What advantages does it have over something like Scapeshift (I can think of two or three immediately)?

1) From my point of view. Never.
Why ? -> asking to pay 9 mana before permission IS a lot. Even soft counters are dealbreakers...

2) Slam Emrakul + another hasty dude giving haste to everybody (urabrask, kragma warcaller, Maelstrom wanderer) ?

3) Based on point n°2 UGR or BGR

4) None...except maybe a very slightly better MU against S&T ??

[Kap'n Cook]

Also, discussion flashpoint:

We've never really considered Tooth and Nail. Should we?

What could we do with it?

What would be the best color setup?

What advantages does it have over something like Scapeshift (I can think of two or three immediately)?

Iona+painter?

Slap in some grindstones for the hell of it too. Name green with painter and use gsz to tutor for any creature in your deck? Just an idea

[Arianrhod]

1) From my point of view. Never.
Why ? -> asking to pay 9 mana before permission IS a lot. Even soft counters are dealbreakers...

2) Slam Emrakul + another hasty dude giving haste to everybody (urabrask, kragma warcaller, Maelstrom wanderer) ?

3) Based on point n°2 UGR or BGR

4) None...except maybe a very slightly better MU against S&T ??

Let me frame the question a bit:

I'm wondering if T&N might be a way to emulate Scapewish's success while simultaneously removing Scape's inherent flaws.

For reference, the advantages I thought of earlier:

-) "Combo pieces" are creatures, which means that they do something when you randomly draw one. Randomly drawing a Valakut / having one in the opening hand sucks.
-) Your combo doesn't lose to wasteland. It may lose to Swords to Plowshares, depending on what the combo is, but we can protect that with Therapy. We can't Therapy Wasteland.
-) If you draw / lose a combo piece at some point, Toothing for like a Titan + a Thrag is still probably fine, even if it doesn't win on the spot. Disabled Scapeshifts are basically 4-mana do-nothings...they can shuffle for Top, but that's it.
-) Fewer manabase constraints means more stability. You still would run a heavy ramp creature package, though, which means that your manabase would actually be probably the most stable manabase in the entirety of legacy.

--------

Iona + Servant is a good one. Grindstone gives the deck a nut draw: T1 Therapy, T2 Explorer, flashback, Painter, Grindstone, pass and dare you to do something about it after two Therapies. Iona is castable and improves the Show and Tell matchup marginally. Servant calling green seems reasonable -- Green Sun for Canonist is legit.

If we're in GBW anyway, there may be something to be done with Rector shenanigans -- Tooth for Rector + Varolz might go places.

Thune + Spike, too, which is a combo that some versions are already running anyway.

It's also important to remember that Tooth for 7 can do things -- we don't necessarily need the full 9. Double 1-sided Show and Tell can be good sometimes, too -- especially with something like Living Wish or Fierce Empath (Worldly Tutor or Eladamri's Call, even?) to help assemble.

[Fizzeler]

Grave Titan is okay, I want that slot to be GSZ right now and Primeval Titan is not the best in Pod (although he can fetch up Township)

Tooth and Nail is interesting can tutor up several 2 card combos ones I can think of (that have not been mentioned)

Conscript + Kiki (or any untap creature with kiki)

Necrotic Ooze + Corpse Connesuir

Elesh Norn + God head of Awe

Sun Titan + E Witness (not a combo per say, but still good)

Rector + Sac outlet

Resto + some ETB creature

[Ralf]

Let me frame the question a bit:

I'm wondering if T&N might be a way to emulate Scapewish's success while simultaneously removing Scape's inherent flaws.

For reference, the advantages I thought of earlier:

-) "Combo pieces" are creatures, which means that they do something when you randomly draw one. Randomly drawing a Valakut / having one in the opening hand sucks.
-) Your combo doesn't lose to wasteland. It may lose to Swords to Plowshares, depending on what the combo is, but we can protect that with Therapy. We can't Therapy Wasteland.
-) If you draw / lose a combo piece at some point, Toothing for like a Titan + a Thrag is still probably fine, even if it doesn't win on the spot. Disabled Scapeshifts are basically 4-mana do-nothings...they can shuffle for Top, but that's it.
-) Fewer manabase constraints means more stability. You still would run a heavy ramp creature package, though, which means that your manabase would actually be probably the most stable manabase in the entirety of legacy.

It's also important to remember that Tooth for 7 can do things -- we don't necessarily need the full 9. Double 1-sided Show and Tell can be good sometimes, too -- especially with something like Living Wish or Fierce Empath (Worldly Tutor or Eladamri's Call, even?) to help assemble.

1) Well, having a tooth & nail in your opening is like a mull to 6. Nothing different than scape.
2) If I had to pay 9 in Legacy I wish my spell to be a end-gaming one.
3) Your combo also die to wasteland, just in a different manner, except if you plan to go for at least 9(7) basics...

Don't take me wrong. I did play Tooth & Nail years ago. I like the card but to make it viable in Legacy and in Nic Fit is just another story.