[Deck] bUrg Tempo

[Quasim0ff]

Hey young friend I see where you are coming from but with 2 Decays and 3 Snares MD and 1 Grudge in the SB you do not need the second Grudge that much. Another REB or Charm or the good old Submerges (for Goyf mirrors) are the better options in the side ;)

For goyf mirrors, let me make a suggestion that really was insane when I played it:
2x Young Pyromancer. :)

[Isre Morn]

For goyf mirrors, let me make a suggestion that really was insane when I played it:
2x Young Pyromancer. :)

No problems with resolved Charms or Roughs?

[Sasan]

No problems with resolved Charms or Roughs?

Wel although I do not like YP it is clear that RUG will never ever board Rough in against us in game 2 as it is a surprising SB card. And it is probable that you do not need a game 3 anymore after the 2-0 win :-P

[Quasim0ff]

No problems with resolved Charms or Roughs?

No, for one simple fact: if they, game 1, see Goyf, delver and DR'S, the wont expect Pyro. Huge blowout, in these cases.


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[wreckoon]

Long time lurker first time poster. Just wanted to say thank you to Sasan, Lemnear, Tormod and everyone else that has contributed to this thread.

LGS metagame has painter, sneak, ANT metagame. So much combo. So I went with this build. It's clearly not a 'default' or 'standard' list
but it definitely works at the LGS. It's won a bit and gone X-0 a few times. Wondered if it could be tweaked further for this without going overboard.
Would love to put another goyf in somehow. (only because it's JAP!), no seriously. The creature package seems fine. The 2 goyfs in the SB are for the
creature matchups that I expect to see but never play against. But that being the case, they might as well be tombstalkers. Thoughts anyone?

BURG

4 delver
3 deathrite shaman
1 tarmogoyf
2 vendilion clique
(10)

4 daze
4 stifle
4 fow
3 pierce
1 flusterstorm (16)

4 brainstorm
3 ponder (7)

3 thoughtseize
4 lightning bolt
2 abrupt decay (9)

7 fetch
3 u.sea
2 tropical island
1 volcanic island
1 badlands
4 wasteland (18)

SB:
2 Fire covenant
1 flusterstorm
1 REB
2 Pyro
1 engineered plague
1 grafdigger's cage
1 ancient grudge
2 submerge
1 golgari charm
1 tormod's crypt (shout out to Tormod)
2 goyf (15)

[Tormod]

Long time lurker first time poster. Just wanted to say thank you to Sasan, Lemnear, Tormod and everyone else that has contributed to this thread.

LGS metagame has painter, sneak, ANT metagame. So much combo. So I went with this build. It's clearly not a 'default' or 'standard' list
but it definitely works at the LGS. It's won a bit and gone X-0 a few times. Wondered if it could be tweaked further for this without going overboard.
Would love to put another goyf in somehow. (only because it's JAP!), no seriously. The creature package seems fine. The 2 goyfs in the SB are for the
creature matchups that I expect to see but never play against. But that being the case, they might as well be tombstalkers. Thoughts anyone?

BURG

4 delver
3 deathrite shaman
1 tarmogoyf
2 vendilion clique
(10)

4 daze
4 stifle
4 fow
3 pierce
1 flusterstorm (16)

4 brainstorm
3 ponder (7)

3 thoughtseize
4 lightning bolt
2 abrupt decay (9)

7 fetch
3 u.sea
2 tropical island
1 volcanic island
1 badlands
4 wasteland (18)

SB:
2 Fire covenant
1 flusterstorm
1 REB
2 Pyro
1 engineered plague
1 grafdigger's cage
1 ancient grudge
2 submerge
1 golgari charm
1 tormod's crypt (shout out to Tormod)
2 goyf (15)

Thanks!

You know based your meta the game the deck looks well tuned towards it.

I was hoping to test Tombstalker tonight at my LGS but unfortunately my kids were sick and they kept me up most of the night. I've also been considering replacing my spell snares with thoughtseize but haven't had done any live fire testing so I like your inclusion of it, even though its is"off-tempo" because it seems like a really good way to take out problem cards before they hit the stack.

For consideration, it may be worth while to run a 4th DRS in you sb over the crypt or cage. It would allow you to cut out one of the goyf from your sb and for another card and still maintain the same creature density.

[TheKingslayer]

Thanks!

You know based your meta the game the deck looks well tuned towards it.

I was hoping to test Tombstalker tonight at my LGS but unfortunately my kids were sick and they kept me up most of the night. I've also been considering replacing my spell snares with thoughtseize but haven't had done any live fire testing so I like your inclusion of it, even though its is"off-tempo" because it seems like a really good way to take out problem cards before they hit the stack.

For consideration, it may be worth while to run a 4th DRS in you sb over the crypt or cage. It would allow you to cut out one of the goyf from your sb and for another card and still maintain the same creature density.

In the early iterations of this deck, when I was playing grixis as it slowly morphed into this, I tried running thoughtsieze. While it was great addition to the deck, there were huge problems in that I wasn't necessarily generating any tempo by playing it. It was often negated by brainstorm, or circumvented by my opponent casting that crucial STP on my delver, or the opponent possessing two threats at once. The advantage is in running blue disruption. The reason being in that we're effectively reducing the game state to being a long, drawn-out continuation of the early game by funneling our opponents' choices into using those two lands they have to cast one spell a turn. When you thoughtseize your opponent, you are tapping out and maybe ripping a tarmogoyf from their hand, but they still get to cast that second tarmogoyf that they had in their hand. So unfortunately, you didn't actually gain any tempo. Also, scenarios will arise in which it would be better to hold mana up to potentially stifle your opponent's second land drop or holding up mana for snare if they drop a non-fetchland. It's a greater tempo play to expand your decision trees in those situations and let your opponent anticipate your plays, rather than tapping out for thoughtseize. As I said before, your opponent still gets to resolve a spell after you thoughtseize them, as opposed to having it countered had you been running snare instead. I hope I articulated this well enough. If you do intend to run seize, I feel that stifle is actually the card to cut.

[wreckoon]

Thanks!

You know based your meta the game the deck looks well tuned towards it.

I was hoping to test Tombstalker tonight at my LGS but unfortunately my kids were sick and they kept me up most of the night. I've also been considering replacing my spell snares with thoughtseize but haven't had done any live fire testing so I like your inclusion of it, even though its is"off-tempo" because it seems like a really good way to take out problem cards before they hit the stack.

For consideration, it may be worth while to run a 4th DRS in you sb over the crypt or cage. It would allow you to cut out one of the goyf from your sb and for another card and still maintain the same creature density.

that's worth doing. I would then run a life from the loam. Or 1-2 Phyrexian Revokers. My reasoning for TStalkers in the SB over goyfs would be that it's definitely more aggressive than goyf in creature/tribal MUs. Also, they are able to just chump goyf. But, if fire covenant is already coming in to clear ground stalls, is goyf > tstalker then? I'm leaning towards Tstalker because I don't like games to last longer than they should. However, there are much bigger life swings on yourself when you're swinging with tstalker, taking hits AND casting fire covenant together. Scary.

In the early iterations of this deck, when I was playing grixis as it slowly morphed into this, I tried running thoughtsieze. While it was great addition to the deck, there were huge problems in that I wasn't necessarily generating any tempo by playing it. It was often negated by brainstorm, or circumvented by my opponent casting that crucial STP on my delver, or the opponent possessing two threats at once. The advantage is in running blue disruption. The reason being in that we're effectively reducing the game state to being a long, drawn-out continuation of the early game by funneling our opponents' choices into using those two lands they have to cast one spell a turn. When you thoughtseize your opponent, you are tapping out and maybe ripping a tarmogoyf from their hand, but they still get to cast that second tarmogoyf that they had in their hand. So unfortunately, you didn't actually gain any tempo. Also, scenarios will arise in which it would be better to hold mana up to potentially stifle your opponent's second land drop or holding up mana for snare if they drop a non-fetchland. It's a greater tempo play to expand your decision trees in those situations and let your opponent anticipate your plays, rather than tapping out for thoughtseize. As I said before, your opponent still gets to resolve a spell after you thoughtseize them, as opposed to having it countered had you been running snare instead. I hope I articulated this well enough. If you do intend to run seize, I feel that stifle is actually the card to cut.

fwiw, i do agree with all your argument. it was well presented. in my OP i said that it was for a heavy combo meta, hence the current config. i feel disrupting them sufficiently before t3 is well worth it. 4 stifles are a must in that matchup. The only problem in that MU is the decision of brainstorm vs ponder vs stifle vs thoughtseize for t1-t3.

with the delver or tarmogoyf example, or shall i say; a more balanced metagame, thoughtseize isn't quite as optimal for the reasons you have so eloquently stated. But then again, you would sequence the thoughtseize differently in other matchups, keeping in mind the fundamental turn of a u/w/r delver, maverick, DNT deck, i.e, no t1 thoughtseize on your part. Another scenario would be with a DRS on board, giving you more options for 1cc plays in the early turns. (another good reason to add the 4th DRS in, possibly over the lone tarmogoyf in my MB.) I would say play the thoughtseize to complement the deck and not just to play it for value's sake.

A t1 DRS with stifle, daze, thoughtseize in hand, which happens more often than not, is a blowout. if the deck performs right and restricts your opponents mana, leaving threats in his hand, thoughtseize again comes in handy. We can argue however, if thoughtseize is then a 'win more' card. I think the problem here is you're thinking I'd be 'tapping out' just to aggresively resolve thoughtseize which would arise in the scenarios you describe. 3 thoughtseizes in the MB does seem OTT. But not in a combo heavy meta.

One more thing to ponder, thoughtseize over probes? Probes give added value with FOWs and are 'free'. But other than that, perform similar functions - hand information, with the added benefit of 'removal'.

[TheKingslayer]

Thanks!

You know based your meta the game the deck looks well tuned towards it.

I was hoping to test Tombstalker tonight at my LGS but unfortunately my kids were sick and they kept me up most of the night. I've also been considering replacing my spell snares with thoughtseize but haven't had done any live fire testing so I like your inclusion of it, even though its is"off-tempo" because it seems like a really good way to take out problem cards before they hit the stack.

For consideration, it may be worth while to run a 4th DRS in you sb over the crypt or cage. It would allow you to cut out one of the goyf from your sb and for another card and still maintain the same creature density.

that's worth doing. I would then run a life from the loam. Or 1-2 Phyrexian Revokers. My reasoning for TStalkers in the SB over goyfs would be that it's definitely more aggressive than goyf in creature/tribal MUs. Also, they are able to just chump goyf. But, if fire covenant is already coming in to clear ground stalls, is goyf > tstalker then? I'm leaning towards Tstalker because I don't like games to last longer than they should. However, there are much bigger life swings on yourself when you're swinging with tstalker, taking hits AND casting fire covenant together. Scary.



fwiw, i do agree with all your argument. it was well presented. in my OP i said that it was for a heavy combo meta, hence the current config. i feel disrupting them sufficiently before t3 is well worth it. 4 stifles are a must in that matchup. The only problem in that MU is the decision of brainstorm vs ponder vs stifle vs thoughtseize for t1-t3.

with the delver or tarmogoyf example, or shall i say; a more balanced metagame, thoughtseize isn't quite as optimal for the reasons you have so eloquently stated. But then again, you would sequence the thoughtseize differently in other matchups, keeping in mind the fundamental turn of a u/w/r delver, maverick, DNT deck, i.e, no t1 thoughtseize on your part. Another scenario would be with a DRS on board, giving you more options for 1cc plays in the early turns. (another good reason to add the 4th DRS in, possibly over the lone tarmogoyf in my MB.) I would say play the thoughtseize to complement the deck and not just to play it for value's sake.

A t1 DRS with stifle, daze, thoughtseize in hand, which happens more often than not, is a blowout. if the deck performs right and restricts your opponents mana, leaving threats in his hand, thoughtseize again comes in handy. We can argue however, if thoughtseize is then a 'win more' card. I think the problem here is you're thinking I'd be 'tapping out' just to aggresively resolve thoughtseize which would arise in the scenarios you describe. 3 thoughtseizes in the MB does seem OTT. But not in a combo heavy meta.

One more thing to ponder, thoughtseize over probes? Probes give added value with FOWs and are 'free'. But other than that, perform similar functions - hand information, with the added benefit of 'removal'.

Fair enough. (I feel like tapping out my black sources for deathrite activations often as well.) I ran seize and pierce together+stifles back in the day. I ended up running them into the SB because they were difficult to play alongside eacother, but at that point , I feel like they should turn into duress, as there's little incentive to running TS, because the life loss is relevant vs combo, and there aren't any creature matchups worth boarding it in to (maybe TNN has changed that? But I'm comfortable with pyroblast and more reactive answers in golgari charm.)

I personally really don't like probe. It's awesome in all that it does, but it doesn't necessarily disrupt the opponent, it just lets you know how you need to. And I feel like the slots devoted to disruption are just very tight in this deck. When I'm mulliganing, I don't want to keep hands with just a probe ad pray probe cantrips into disruption, I would rather it BE disruption... So, I'm voting for seize. I think probe is amazing in storm decks.

[wreckoon]

Fair enough. (I feel like tapping out my black sources for deathrite activations often as well.) I ran seize and pierce together+stifles back in the day. I ended up running them into the SB because they were difficult to play alongside eacother, but at that point , I feel like they should turn into duress, as there's little incentive to running TS, because the life loss is relevant vs combo, and there aren't any creature matchups worth boarding it in to (maybe TNN has changed that? But I'm comfortable with pyroblast and more reactive answers in golgari charm.)

I personally really don't like probe. It's awesome in all that it does, but it doesn't necessarily disrupt the opponent, it just lets you know how you need to. And I feel like the slots devoted to disruption are just very tight in this deck. When I'm mulliganing, I don't want to keep hands with just a probe ad pray probe cantrips into disruption, I would rather it BE disruption... So, I'm voting for seize. I think probe is amazing in storm decks.

I agree with TS vs probe.

The reason I went with TS vs duress is that it's more of a catch-all. And yes, because of TNN and to a certain extent plucking a griselbrand and painter's servant in my LGS meta is nice too. I also consider elves a combo deck, TS wins out here; but in the pure combo MU, duress is better. Unfortunately, I don't play against tribal decks much at the LGS. In which case, i do wish it was sometimes a duress.

I also have the odd scenario where you can sequence the plays to bluff and it's clear to the X-blade opponent that I'm not running hymn and i can let a SFM resolve and just take the BSkull. seeing that abrupt decay can take care of the jitte/sword. Duress works equally well here, it's just another black disruption vs blue disruption arguement. imo, inquisition shouldnt be in the MB then. I guess my point is, should we be including hand disruption in the MB? 2 of. Not 3. Can we then also agree then that TS > duress > inquisition? Thoughts?

[Sasan]

I agree with TS vs probe.

The reason I went with TS vs duress is that it's more of a catch-all. And yes, because of TNN and to a certain extent plucking a griselbrand and painter's servant in my LGS meta is nice too. I also consider elves a combo deck, TS wins out here; but in the pure combo MU, duress is better. Unfortunately, I don't play against tribal decks much at the LGS. In which case, i do wish it was sometimes a duress.

I also have the odd scenario where you can sequence the plays to bluff and it's clear to the X-blade opponent that I'm not running hymn and i can let a SFM resolve and just take the BSkull. seeing that abrupt decay can take care of the jitte/sword. Duress works equally well here, it's just another black disruption vs blue disruption arguement. imo, inquisition shouldnt be in the MB then. I guess my point is, should we be including hand disruption in the MB? 2 of. Not 3. Can we then also agree then that TS > duress > inquisition? Thoughts?

There are many pros and cons to that matter. But we can agree that discard is good versus combo decks and somehow underwhelming versus fair decks. Countering or Removing stuff is better as we force the opponent to spend resources. With discard the opponent can choose from another spell that he wants to cast. We are a tempo deck. Therefore discard is only a SB option for me. But as we are right on spots and have a great combo MU I will not spend slots to discard.

The best discard is instant-speed and therefore Clique is the only "discard"-spell that is MD material. Instant discard is total tempo play.

[wreckoon]

There are many pros and cons to that matter. But we can agree that discard is good versus combo decks and somehow underwhelming versus fair decks. Countering or Removing stuff is better as we force the opponent to spend resources. With discard the opponent can choose from another spell that he wants to cast. We are a tempo deck. Therefore discard is only a SB option for me. But as we are right on spots and have a great combo MU I will not spend slots to discard.

The best discard is instant-speed and therefore Clique is the only "discard"-spell that is MD material. Instant discard is total tempo play.

Thanks for replying Sasan.

imo, if I were to play in a larger field, I'd remove the TS from my MB. So we can agree on that.

I think the US meta might be slightly different from the EU meta, I was living in Berlin and HH for a number of years. I would not differ from Sasan's stocklist if I was still there. Well, maybe the lands :P. But, is clique a necessary 1 of at least?

In what is now almost an anti-rug metagame, i.e, RIP (esper/delver/DNT), or just 4 plows + 4 bolts, (damn you turtenwald j/k)
I've adjusted my list to not include geese/goyfs. Before this descends into a stock list or not argument, this is just a metagame discussion.

Like this creature package for example:

4 DRS
4 delver
2 TNN
2 Clique ( I really want to bring this down to 1)

Keep in mind, that although it can be clunky, they are all FOW fodder which opens options up somewhat. This is my concession to NOT running TS in a wider field, which I do agree with. The 4 DRS comes in clearly because of a higher potential curve. Thoughts?

[Sasan]

Thanks for replying Sasan.

imo, if I were to play in a larger field, I'd remove the TS from my MB. So we can agree on that.

I think the US meta might be slightly different from the EU meta, I was living in Berlin and HH for a number of years. I would not differ from Sasan's stocklist if I was still there. Well, maybe the lands :P. But, is clique a necessary 1 of at least?

In what is now almost an anti-rug metagame, i.e, RIP (esper/delver/DNT), or just 4 plows + 4 bolts, (damn you turtenwald j/k)
I've adjusted my list to not include geese/goyfs. Before this descends into a stock list or not argument, this is just a metagame discussion.

Like this creature package for example:

4 DRS
4 delver
2 TNN
2 Clique ( I really want to bring this down to 1)

Keep in mind, that although it can be clunky, they are all FOW fodder which opens options up somewhat. This is my concession to NOT running TS in a wider field, which I do agree with. The 4 DRS comes in clearly because of a higher potential curve. Thoughts?

I forgot to welcome you to the thread and the deck:-)

your list makes sense versus combo decks. Especially when you consider that mongoose is slow versus combo. But TNN is really bad versus combo as it forces is to tap out on turn 3. A real crucial turn where the combo player can go off ;)

[wreckoon]

I forgot to welcome you to the thread and the deck:-)

your list makes sense versus combo decks. Especially when you consider that mongoose is slow versus combo. But TNN is really bad versus combo as it forces is to tap out on turn 3. A real crucial turn where the combo player can go off ;)

Danke alter!
I agree TNN is terrible against combo. I just wanted to have some game vs fair decks and I didnt want to use goyf. It gets boarded out more often than not.

Legacy Night.

BURG

4 delver
3 deathrite shaman
1 TNN
2 vendilion clique
(10)

3 daze
4 stifle
4 fow
1 flusterstorm
3 pierce (15)

4 brainstorm
3 ponder (7)

1 sensei's divining top (I played this over the 4th ponder)
3 thoughtseize
4 lightning bolt
2 abrupt decay (10)

8 fetch (went back up to 8 fetch. because of the 4th DRS in the board as well as the addition of the top)
2 u.sea
2 tropical island
1 volcanic island
1 badlands
4 wasteland (18)

1 ancient grudge
1 flusterstorm
1 REB
2 pyroblast
1 golgari charm
1 engineered plague
2 phyrexian revoker (MVP!)
2 submerge
1 DRS
1 TNN (I went along with Tormod's suggestion here. but I used TNN instead of the goyf. More game vs fair decks)
1 surgical extraction
1 fire covenant

R1: Sligh. No. Not Burn. Sligh. 2-1
All 3 games ran close until a DRS hit the board. Lifegain won out. played round PoP by saving forces for it as well as wasting my
own duals and using daze aggressively. Less land is less land. The 4th DRS helped with the self land destruction. Not a match I'd want to play again though because of high variance.

R2 Elves 2-0
Early Delver flips rode both games home. 2nd game had me submerging a fetched dryad arbor into a phyrexian revoker on wirewood symbiote. It bought me enough time to draw into fire covenant & engineered plague. SB-ing in fire covenant, 2 revokers, submerge, plague, charm and the 4th DRS made it easy.

R3 ANT no wish 2-0
I know we have ridiculously good MUs vs combo but there were some cool plays which don't happen too often.

G1: an early DRS slows down a potential PiFlames kill. He and I trade counters and discard. My lone Top hits the board. I have 1 card in hand - a FOW with no way to hardcast it. He sets everything up. And probes me. And duresses me. He sighs in relief. No cards in hand. And Tendrils me. I use top and draw the 1 flusterstorm! I kept it for the last 2 turns protecting it from discard. I think I stole that one. Top 1 - Brainstorm 0.

G2: 'The Package' comes in.
He opens with duress and takes a stifle. t1 DRS. t2. I TS, ponder and extract abrupt decay. I'm not sure this was right but I have no way to interact with it. The rest of the hand was rituals and cantrips . A top decked revoker on t4 naming LED buys me some more time. A 2nd DRS comes down. I REB/Pyro cantrips and waste blue sources. A DRS takes him low and I have 2 stifles in hand and the REB off the top with the SDT when he tries to chain my revoker. A 2nd TS takes a tutor. DRS go all the way.

R4 DNT

G1: I get plowed and wastelanded to oblivion. Thalia didn't help me either. He had 2 Karakas. I wasted 1.
I scoop when he starts recurring Mangara with mom protection and a 2 turn clock.

G2: Early stifles on wastelands let me waste his ports. He plows DRS X2 and revoker for SFM. He doesn't have removal for delver and a TNN + bolt finishes it.

G3: A t2 Plague on Humans and a t3 TNN with some DRS love and a bolt finish it.

My memory of all the games arent perfect but those are the games I remember. Apologies if it wasnt as detailed as you wanted.

The DNT MUs make me miss snare quite a bit.
But that's easily adjusted by removing TS or flusterstorm. I do think I got lucky in the DNT mu. TNN makes it a lot more bearable. I know covenant and golgari charm make it easy mode. but 3 mana isn't always easy to hit. Dread of Night helps. maybe replace the extraction with a TNN? What are your thoughts on the matchup? Fire covenant is a great answer, but the mana doesnt always work out.

So, is the 1 SDT better than the 4th Ponder? With 8 fetches maybe. Seeing that the 8th fetch directly replaces the shuffle effect. I'll be playing with SDT for now. It just feels a lot better.

[Quasim0ff]

Danke alter!
I agree TNN is terrible against combo. I just wanted to have some game vs fair decks and I didnt want to use goyf. It gets boarded out more often than not.

Legacy Night.

BURG

4 delver
3 deathrite shaman
1 TNN
2 vendilion clique
(10)

3 daze
4 stifle
4 fow
1 flusterstorm
3 pierce (15)

4 brainstorm
3 ponder (7)

1 sensei's divining top (I played this over the 4th ponder)
3 thoughtseize
4 lightning bolt
2 abrupt decay (10)

8 fetch (went back up to 8 fetch. because of the 4th DRS in the board as well as the addition of the top)
2 u.sea
2 tropical island
1 volcanic island
1 badlands
4 wasteland (18)

1 ancient grudge
1 flusterstorm
1 REB
2 pyroblast
1 golgari charm
1 engineered plague
2 phyrexian revoker (MVP!)
2 submerge
1 DRS
1 TNN (I went along with Tormod's suggestion here. but I used TNN instead of the goyf. More game vs fair decks)
1 surgical extraction
1 fire covenant

R1: Sligh. No. Not Burn. Sligh. 2-1
All 3 games ran close until a DRS hit the board. Lifegain won out. played round PoP by saving forces for it as well as wasting my
own duals and using daze aggressively. Less land is less land. The 4th DRS helped with the self land destruction. Not a match I'd want to play again though because of high variance.

R2 Elves 2-0
Early Delver flips rode both games home. 2nd game had me submerging a fetched dryad arbor into a phyrexian revoker on wirewood symbiote. It bought me enough time to draw into fire covenant & engineered plague. SB-ing in fire covenant, 2 revokers, submerge, plague, charm and the 4th DRS made it easy.

R3 ANT no wish 2-0
I know we have ridiculously good MUs vs combo but there were some cool plays which don't happen too often.

G1: an early DRS slows down a potential PiFlames kill. He and I trade counters and discard. My lone Top hits the board. I have 1 card in hand - a FOW with no way to hardcast it. He sets everything up. And probes me. And duresses me. He sighs in relief. No cards in hand. And Tendrils me. I use top and draw the 1 flusterstorm! I kept it for the last 2 turns protecting it from discard. I think I stole that one. Top 1 - Brainstorm 0.

G2: 'The Package' comes in.
He opens with duress and takes a stifle. t1 DRS. t2. I TS, ponder and extract abrupt decay. I'm not sure this was right but I have no way to interact with it. The rest of the hand was rituals and cantrips . A top decked revoker on t4 naming LED buys me some more time. A 2nd DRS comes down. I REB/Pyro cantrips and waste blue sources. A DRS takes him low and I have 2 stifles in hand and the REB off the top with the SDT when he tries to chain my revoker. A 2nd TS takes a tutor. DRS go all the way.

R4 DNT

G1: I get plowed and wastelanded to oblivion. Thalia didn't help me either. He had 2 Karakas. I wasted 1.
I scoop when he starts recurring Mangara with mom protection and a 2 turn clock.

G2: Early stifles on wastelands let me waste his ports. He plows DRS X2 and revoker for SFM. He doesn't have removal for delver and a TNN + bolt finishes it.

G3: A t2 Plague on Humans and a t3 TNN with some DRS love and a bolt finish it.

My memory of all the games arent perfect but those are the games I remember. Apologies if it wasnt as detailed as you wanted.

The DNT MUs make me miss snare quite a bit.
But that's easily adjusted by removing TS or flusterstorm. I do think I got lucky in the DNT mu. TNN makes it a lot more bearable. I know covenant and golgari charm make it easy mode. but 3 mana isn't always easy to hit. Dread of Night helps. maybe replace the extraction with a TNN? What are your thoughts on the matchup? Fire covenant is a great answer, but the mana doesnt always work out.

So, is the 1 SDT better than the 4th Ponder? With 8 fetches maybe. Seeing that the 8th fetch directly replaces the shuffle effect. I'll be playing with SDT for now. It just feels a lot better.

In your list, I'd swap 1-for-1 with Clique/TNN. :)

otherwise, really strong deck list. I really like the top, for some reason, in there :) Seems to fit so good.

[wreckoon]

In your list, I'd swap 1-for-1 with Clique/TNN. :)

otherwise, really strong deck list. I really like the top, for some reason, in there :) Seems to fit so good.

Thanks Quasimoff.

Just wondering, are you on 'that' FB group? I asked because you mentioned Brian Nocenti.

Anyway, I agree with the switch. I'm just hedging my bets because of my LGS meta. Hence the TS, fluster storm and 2 cliques main.

With regards to the SDT, it feels right. Like I said, ponder > SDT. But 1 SDT > 4th ponder. Thinking of how to put back snares or the 4th daze but that might be greedy. Going down to 2 TS solves daze.

[Tormod]

Last Legacy night of the year

I went with this 75

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Tarmogoyf
2 True-Name Nemesis

4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Stifle
3 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Abrupt Decay

4 Wasteland
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands

SB
2 Flusterstorm
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Submerge
2 Divert
2 Golgari Charm
1 Life from the Loam
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Ancient Grudge

20 guys show up tonight. A walk around the room reveals a really good mix. I see usual tier 1 decks UWR Delver, Bladecontrol, RUG, Jund etc. also spot enchantress, dredge, Oops, Dead Guy

Round 1 vs 12 Post

Game 1, he plays a turn 1 top. I play Deathrite. I manage to disrupt him effectively, while I suspect he dealt with a mediocre draw. He gets 2 tops on the table, but I won't let him resolve a shuffle effect. I get there with my beaters.
Game 2, I have a slow opener with loam and wasteland so I keep. He turn 1 plays needle on wasteland. I forgot to mention I have an abrupt decay. at the end of his turn 3, I abrupt decay the needle and start loam locking him. A bojuka bog eventually takes care of that plan. I attack his life with delver, deathrite and goyf. He's searching for colored mana, I FoW Prime Time.
2-0/1-0

Round 2 vs Reanimator

My opponent is a good buddy, we've dodged each other for the last month and I cut all my graveyard hate from my sb today.
Game 1 he is on the play and entombs a griselbrand turn 1. I could have fow'd but I decide to save it for the reanimation spell. I play turn 1 delver. He plays reanimate, I force, he forces back. Griselbrand his the battlefield, I stilfe the first draw, but it goes downhill fast.
Game 2 I turn 1 deathrite, he forces. He turn 1 careful study, and bins Iona. He turn 2 exhume with a swamp and a city of traitors so he has mana for daze. I fow, he forces back... Iona gets there.

0-2/1-1

Round 3 vs UWR Delver

Another good buddy
Game 1 is a grind fest, it goes back and forth quite a bit. True-Name saves my but by blocking batterskull, but eventually I lose the grind as he acquires more equipment
Game 2 is another grind fest. Late game I play down a second True-Name and swing my first equipped with Jitte against his board of 2 sfm, 1 delver and a suited germ. The rest in peace on the board makes this a very different game because I have many turns where deathrite could have pushed through damage. I misplay 3 times and it cost me dearly.
0-2/1-2

Round 4 vs Jund

Another regular
Game 1 I get beaten up by Bloodbraid Elves
Game 2 I win with Goyf and deathrite
Game 3 I win with loam lock and goyf and deathrite.
2-1/2-2

All star card of the night was Life from the Loam. It did a lot of work against 12-Post and Jund.
Honorable mention to divert, the card came up at reasonable times.

Boo on my spell snare for showing up a turn too late against stoneforge.

I'm still happy with the list, but I need to retool my sideboard for this varied meta and put in more generic answers in.

I took the plunge and ran the full 8 fetchlands and 6 duals and the mana was fine. The badlands was more awkward than the taiga at times but I think i may need to play it some more so I'm willing to give another go.

Today I felt I wanted mongoose against UWR Delver, so I'll make a mental note of that.

Overall record: 23-4

[TheKingslayer]

Last Legacy night of the year

I went with this 75

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Tarmogoyf
2 True-Name Nemesis

4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Stifle
3 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Abrupt Decay

4 Wasteland
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands

SB
2 Flusterstorm
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Submerge
2 Divert
2 Golgari Charm
1 Life from the Loam
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Ancient Grudge

20 guys show up tonight. A walk around the room reveals a really good mix. I see usual tier 1 decks UWR Delver, Bladecontrol, RUG, Jund etc. also spot enchantress, dredge, Oops, Dead Guy

Round 1 vs 12 Post

Game 1, he plays a turn 1 top. I play Deathrite. I manage to disrupt him effectively, while I suspect he dealt with a mediocre draw. He gets 2 tops on the table, but I won't let him resolve a shuffle effect. I get there with my beaters.
Game 2, I have a slow opener with loam and wasteland so I keep. He turn 1 plays needle on wasteland. I forgot to mention I have an abrupt decay. at the end of his turn 3, I abrupt decay the needle and start loam locking him. A bojuka bog eventually takes care of that plan. I attack his life with delver, deathrite and goyf. He's searching for colored mana, I FoW Prime Time.
2-0/1-0

Round 2 vs Reanimator

My opponent is a good buddy, we've dodged each other for the last month and I cut all my graveyard hate from my sb today.
Game 1 he is on the play and entombs a griselbrand turn 1. I could have fow'd but I decide to save it for the reanimation spell. I play turn 1 delver. He plays reanimate, I force, he forces back. Griselbrand his the battlefield, I stilfe the first draw, but it goes downhill fast.
Game 2 I turn 1 deathrite, he forces. He turn 1 careful study, and bins Iona. He turn 2 exhume with a swamp and a city of traitors so he has mana for daze. I fow, he forces back... Iona gets there.

0-2/1-1

Round 3 vs UWR Delver

Another good buddy
Game 1 is a grind fest, it goes back and forth quite a bit. True-Name saves my but by blocking batterskull, but eventually I lose the grind as he acquires more equipment
Game 2 is another grind fest. Late game I play down a second True-Name and swing my first equipped with Jitte against his board of 2 sfm, 1 delver and a suited germ. The rest in peace on the board makes this a very different game because I have many turns where deathrite could have pushed through damage. I misplay 3 times and it cost me dearly.
0-2/1-2

Round 4 vs Jund

Another regular
Game 1 I get beaten up by Bloodbraid Elves
Game 2 I win with Goyf and deathrite
Game 3 I win with loam lock and goyf and deathrite.
2-1/2-2

All star card of the night was Life from the Loam. It did a lot of work against 12-Post and Jund.
Honorable mention to divert, the card came up at reasonable times.

Boo on my spell snare for showing up a turn too late against stoneforge.

I'm still happy with the list, but I need to retool my sideboard for this varied meta and put in more generic answers in.

I took the plunge and ran the full 8 fetchlands and 6 duals and the mana was fine. The badlands was more awkward than the taiga at times but I think i may need to play it some more so I'm willing to give another go.

Today I felt I wanted mongoose against UWR Delver, so I'll make a mental note of that.

Overall record: 23-4

Mongoose is house is so many matchups + the ability to keep up disruption and drop a threat is house too. I went 3-1 two weeks ago and 4-0 Thursday with Gooseburg. I'll drop a list and maybe report here in the next day.

[Sasan]

Mongoose is house is so many matchups + the ability to keep up disruption and drop a threat is house too. I went 3-1 two weeks ago and 4-0 Thursday with Gooseburg. I'll drop a list and maybe report here in the next day.

You are invited to post your list :)

[Sasan]

Last Legacy night of the year

I went with this 75

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Tarmogoyf
2 True-Name Nemesis

4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Stifle
3 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Abrupt Decay

4 Wasteland
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands

SB
2 Flusterstorm
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Submerge
2 Divert
2 Golgari Charm
1 Life from the Loam
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Ancient Grudge

20 guys show up tonight. A walk around the room reveals a really good mix. I see usual tier 1 decks UWR Delver, Bladecontrol, RUG, Jund etc. also spot enchantress, dredge, Oops, Dead Guy

Round 1 vs 12 Post

Game 1, he plays a turn 1 top. I play Deathrite. I manage to disrupt him effectively, while I suspect he dealt with a mediocre draw. He gets 2 tops on the table, but I won't let him resolve a shuffle effect. I get there with my beaters.
Game 2, I have a slow opener with loam and wasteland so I keep. He turn 1 plays needle on wasteland. I forgot to mention I have an abrupt decay. at the end of his turn 3, I abrupt decay the needle and start loam locking him. A bojuka bog eventually takes care of that plan. I attack his life with delver, deathrite and goyf. He's searching for colored mana, I FoW Prime Time.
2-0/1-0

Round 2 vs Reanimator

My opponent is a good buddy, we've dodged each other for the last month and I cut all my graveyard hate from my sb today.
Game 1 he is on the play and entombs a griselbrand turn 1. I could have fow'd but I decide to save it for the reanimation spell. I play turn 1 delver. He plays reanimate, I force, he forces back. Griselbrand his the battlefield, I stilfe the first draw, but it goes downhill fast.
Game 2 I turn 1 deathrite, he forces. He turn 1 careful study, and bins Iona. He turn 2 exhume with a swamp and a city of traitors so he has mana for daze. I fow, he forces back... Iona gets there.

0-2/1-1

Round 3 vs UWR Delver

Another good buddy
Game 1 is a grind fest, it goes back and forth quite a bit. True-Name saves my but by blocking batterskull, but eventually I lose the grind as he acquires more equipment
Game 2 is another grind fest. Late game I play down a second True-Name and swing my first equipped with Jitte against his board of 2 sfm, 1 delver and a suited germ. The rest in peace on the board makes this a very different game because I have many turns where deathrite could have pushed through damage. I misplay 3 times and it cost me dearly.
0-2/1-2

Round 4 vs Jund

Another regular
Game 1 I get beaten up by Bloodbraid Elves
Game 2 I win with Goyf and deathrite
Game 3 I win with loam lock and goyf and deathrite.
2-1/2-2

All star card of the night was Life from the Loam. It did a lot of work against 12-Post and Jund.
Honorable mention to divert, the card came up at reasonable times.

Boo on my spell snare for showing up a turn too late against stoneforge.

I'm still happy with the list, but I need to retool my sideboard for this varied meta and put in more generic answers in.

I took the plunge and ran the full 8 fetchlands and 6 duals and the mana was fine. The badlands was more awkward than the taiga at times but I think i may need to play it some more so I'm willing to give another go.

Today I felt I wanted mongoose against UWR Delver, so I'll make a mental note of that.

Overall record: 23-4

Thanks for the great tournament report.