It definitely seems correct to play 4 Brainstorm. It is almost always excellent, even in multiples. Personally I don't like the 61st card, though that is not as important. I would cut almost anything for the 4th Brainstorm. This may be a deck that is fine with 3 Explorers, I do not know for sure. The deck seems to have less of a use for heaps and heaps of lands, even though you would like to trigger an explorer most most games. GSZ seemed fine to me, but not sepctecular. Many of our creatures are not blue. One reason to play the 4th Explorer over the 2nd GSZ is the tempo match up. It can be hard to get GSZ for 1 around daze and spell pierce in a timely manner, while explorer dodges both easily.
Brainstorm allows your deck to be more consistent in games that you don't draw a pod. It allows you to better find the non green singletons and mitigate flood and put back pod targets.
Originally Posted by Richard Cheese
My last tournament was crap and made me question my SB, after a not so great tournament before that where I started doubting it. I'm playing a BUGr fit list (here) that is rather controlish. Only change is -1 Far/Away, +1 Eternal Witness (which has served me well!). While having 4 Negate and 2 Counterspell main, combo still remains difficult and I noted that Daze was not as good as I hoped/thought it would be. This was my old SB:
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Extirpate
2 Hydroblast
2 Golgari Charm
2 Innocent blood
I'm now thinking of cutting 3 Daze for 2 Flusterstorm, which should be much much better against (storm) combo. I'm pondering about switching the hydroblasts for pyroblasts, but I only run a single mountain, so that seems a bit too inconsistent. Extirpate will probably become Surgical Extraction since the split second hardly matters in the matches where I want to use it. My final slot I'd like to dedicate to Batterskull, because I hate the card. Faced it a couple of times now and I just can't get rid of the damn thing. When I have the mana for Pernicious deed to kill it, my opponent usually has the mana to bounce it to his/her hand and hence save it. Any tips, tricks, comments and suggestions are welcome! I'm very happy with the main deck, it's just the SB that's a bit iffy still.
@ UseLess:
Try the following for your sideboard:
-3 Daze
-2 Extirpate
-2 Hydroblast
+2 Glen Elendra Archmage
+1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
+2 Surgical Extraction
+2 ??? (Hydroblast seems very in application, that's all. I would say Carpet of Flowers would be good here)
The Melira Archmage package provides a kind of hard lock against most kinds of combo (Elves! being the most noticeable exception), which is almost necessary for an end-game control deck like Nic Fit to survive long enough against combo to win.
Surgical over Extirpate because Paying 2 life is better than having to wait a turn to extract key targets.
Hydroblast ... just seems odd ... not sure what to put in other than Carpet of Flowers (which helps against UW control with Terminus and StP negating Veteran).
I've had problems with batterskull in the past as well. The way I beat it is generally to go over the top. Nic fit is very threat-heavy, and top helps with that plan. Having a 'skull of your own in the side will help you.
There are two options to deal with Batterskull:
- go over the top where Batterskull doesn't matter anymore. With your list, if you have an active Jace or Sphinx, Batterskull becomes irrelevant pretty quickly. They have to pay 8 to replay it while you only pay 2 for a Decay.
- Use the Deed at the end of your opponent's turn, then Therapy it away it (or in your case you can also Negate it when they replay it).
I've been durdling with adding a Trygon Predator or Viridian Shaman to the 75 to deal with this. Also briefly tried Memnarch, but he was too cute.
Separately, I ran a bunch of matches against Manaless and got stomped. DRS is bad in that matchup as it can't deal with Bridges, and you're at the mercy of finding Scavenging Ooze to eat their Bridges, then Dredgers, and all the while playing around cycling and Phantasmagorian tricks. Both Mana'ed and Manaless Dredge have gotten more popular around me recently, so I'm also toying with a 2nd Ooze or a Withered Wretch - while the Wretch is almost certainly worse, BB isn't that hard to hit and the fact that it can use colorless mana means you can always hit cards in the graveyard. I also still deal with other GY strategies (reanimator, kotr, snapcaster mage), and its nice to have more options for nuking the yard vs. DRS's one at at time.
Surgical Extraction is a necessity against any kind of dredge, though it takes some tricks to work around Street Wraith shenanigans (i.e. targeting something in their yard with Ooze or DRS, then Extracting it in response to shenanigans).
Also, when you're naming something with Therapy, name Bridges before flashback then LED after flashback to get rid of Bridges and LEDs.
Deed + Discard after bounce, especially if you get a liliana online (as tao recommend, play 3 in punishing fit!). Sure if it doesnt work, batterskull can be a pain and hard to remove. Thanks to TNN, bladelists are back again, so you will see a skull (and its strength against our common mid/lategame plan) more often. Instead of weird Nic Fit solutions like "Viridian Shaman" (a house in elves) you can add something like Wickerbough Elder (also works against some other situations with enchantments - show&tell etc.).
----------
After one year tournament league in berlin, we played the top 16 finals yesterday with some other established players like Carsten Kötter.
I decided to play Punishing Fit (everyone expected that i play elves) for some surprising action. After i get some last minute meta information i made small adjustments to the tao's primer list:
Main:
-1 Diabolic Intend (don't like a 4th sensei anyway)
+1 Deathrite Shaman (more outs against Dredge etc.)
-1 Huntmaster of the Fells (i ordered one more, but it doesn't arrived fast enough)
+ Kitchen Finks ("small huntmaster")
-1 Volrath's Stronghold
+1 Kessig Wolf Run (really like it, but both lands are strong enough - Volrath's get better, with the meta swing from Xbg Deathrite+Decay Decks to UWx TNN Blade Decks)
-1 Pernicious Deed
+1 Maelstrom Pulse (sometimes you need a faster answer, Pulse can also get Planeswalkers and some bigger stuff and will not suffer from stifle)
Side:
-1 Thoughtseize
+1 Surgical Extraction (3 Copys against Dredge/Reanimate and it will also work against other combos)
Matchups:
Round 1 vs BUG Control:
Game 1 and 2 are very similiar, i overcome him in ressources and stomped him with the deck choices. He quickly surrender both games. Noteable he played the annoying Lands.dec most tournaments this year and i lost every matchup against him. After he played underground sea, bayou and deathrite game 1 i smelled that the time for revenge has come. Good start for this day!
Round 2 vs MUD
Game 1 he get an early chalice (glad to not play elves), i zenith into explorer which dies honourable against Lodestone Golem. I quickly ramp into mana and play deed for 6 to kill chalice+lodestone+wurmcoil engine. After that i smash titan and finish one turn later with the following 9 mana chain: Liliana + Witness + Deed with Titan on the field against 2 wurmcoil tokens.
Game 2 he doesnt find All is dust, were i let him discard lodestone golem and slaughter games Steel Hellkite in his hand the turn before he drop it. Than i killed Metal Worker and follow with Liliana and Discard spells to get rid of the last bombs like karn and sundering titan. Witness and Finks beat him down before he recovers.
Round 3 vs UWr Blade (Jasper Grimmer)
Game 1 we changed some spells. Turn 4 he slams jace against my empty board and the game was over, he killed my with batterskull + sword of fire and ice and i can't find the right answers after his jace move.
Game 2 we switched it. Get a good combination of disruption with 2 Lilianas, after i played the first one into force. Follow it up with Witness to get the 4th landdrop and he plays his jace (which i saw in his hand after discard) right into my Red Blast. After that i get the 2nd Liliana working and we went to the next Game.
Game 3 it was a hard battle and very exciting but i cant find the right answers and he pressured me again with hardbeats from batterskull + Sword of fire and ice.
Round 4 vs BUG Delver
The winner get a Top 4 seat and normally it isn't a bad matchup for punishing fit.
Game 1 we changed spells, i play he removal he hymns me so we quickly entered topdeck mode. He play Liliana, i play Liliana. Sadly i topdecked Kitchen Finks and have 3! Swamps in Play and 1 Forest and 1 Badland/Mountain...so i discarded my own Finks. After that his topdeck was Decay for my liliana and than the games went in the wrong direction.... After i survived his liliana ultimate, but i can't find answers for double 6/7 (my sensei + liliana...) Gofy Beatdown. Without the wrong mana, Kitchen Finks (or 2nd Huntmaster in this slot) against the situation i described above would let me stay in a very good position...so i lost.
Game 2 After the common disruption from both sides in the first turns i can't find removal (with this deck...) to kill a single delver, besides one maelstrom pulse which eats a counter. He find his Grafedigger's Cage and i topdecked 2 Zeniths and can't profit from a creature with lifegain against his delver beats...
So i finished 2:2 but still ended at 6th places - not so bad.
Top 4 was UW Miracle, UWr Stoneblade, BUG Delver and bUrg Tempo. In the finals, Jasper won agains Carsten Kötter (with Miracle). Congrats to Jasper - Berlin Champion 2013 :)
Pros:
+played with some of my best friends
+fun games with my deck choice
+some good advice from tao
+slaughter games
+liliana
Cons:
+Lost badly against Tempo
+can't find the right answer against Batterskull
+top 4 games without non-blue decks
TEAM MtG Berlin
- One out vs. Batterskull that wasn't mentioned is Thrun. He can block it indefinitely, even when the Germ is also equipped with a SoFaI.
- I still think UWR is a good matchup. Jace is of course very good, especially after a quick start. Losing to a quick SFM/Skull is unlikely because of Therapy for the tutored equipment and Fire/Decay on the SFM. Losing to a Delver of Secrets really sucks. On the other hand beating MUD is not easy. I'd much rather play against Delver or UWR than against MUD.
- Reading your report I feel like 4 Tops might be the right call. You lost both games against Delver due to bad topdecking. You wouldn't draw the Finks with 3 Swamps in play and you wouldn't draw the dead GSZs and I can't imagine not finding a removal for Delver with a Top in play. Did the Deathrite Shaman that you played instead ever do anything for you or did it just get killed on sight?
I realize that deed + discard will deal with batterskull, however I play GBW and do not run liliana. I often find it hard to assemble deed + a random creature to flashback therapy or a therapy itself late in the game. I was just discussing how I generally beat it, not all of the ways to beat it.
Yeah, Thrun can also be a good answer but i can't get him in the games i lost - or draw him way too late.
As you said, in the unlucky games against BUG Delver a 4th Top would be the right spell. Deathrite died sometimes and sometimes he shot a little bit. Overall (it is also one copy) he doesnt do very much in the 4 games. After the tournament i played 7 games against bUrg (a friend of mine who made top4) and Deathrite was "ok". It was another drop for the early game state, but i think about switching back to 2nd Huntmaster and 4th sensei (if i get one for the next tournament).
I had great fun with this deck and will continue to play it in the future.
TEAM MtG Berlin
I have this list finally
3 swamp
4 island
2 forest
1 underground sea
1 bayou
1 tropical island
1 phyrexian tower
1 verdant catacombs
2 polluted delta
2 misty rainforest
3 mishra's factory
3 birthing pod
2 notion thief
4 pernicious deed
2 abrupt decay
2 deathrite shaman
4 cabal therapy
4 veteran explorer
1 murderous redcap
2 kitchen finks
1 thragtusk
1 deceiver exarch
1 glen elendra archmage
1 grave titan
3 baleful strix
1 shriekmaw
3 standstill
2 jace, the mind sculptor
2 liliana of the veil
The point of this deck is to get ahead on board and to stay ahead. Early on, you want to land a deed to gain card advantage so you can develop your board thereafter. Failing that, you want to gain value by using baleful strix and spot removal creatures. Once that is accomplished, 'walkers, notion thief, and standstill let you stay ahead. Jace just lets you outdraw your opponent or seal their fate, and liliana forces them to cast stuff only to have it die. Notion thief makes sure your opponent can't draw their way out. The combination of mishra's factory, pod, 'walkers, and notion thief makes it almost impossible for your opponent to draw cards off of your standstill. If they don't cast stuff, they just die. If they cast stuff, you get to draw cards and most likely deal with whatever they have.
Why not just play landstill: The veteran explorer engine lets you accelerate into a lot of powerful stuff that is synergistic with standstill (pod, jace, notion thief, deed, value creatures)
Why not just play bug pod: This version runs out of gas a lot less quickly and I feel is better at grinding. Putting combo off their cantrips seems like it would help too. Both of those things need testing, however.
Interesting. Have you had an opportunity to test it yet? There are a few things that could be troublesome. Is there space for all of those colourless lands? Only playing 9 green sources doesn't seem acceptable when you are trying to cast veteran explorer and kitchen finks. If you are to play Standstill, the factories are obviously important, but I think that the Phyrexian tower and at least the 4th Island should be green sources. The deck should probably play Brainstorm, and some more fetches to support it better. At least in BUG Pod I am always delighted to see it. Do you think that you have enough creatures for Pod? I play a few more, and having too few is sometimes an issue. Deck space quickly becomes an issue, and it seems diffucult to play Pod, Standstill and Planeswalkers if you were to add Brainstorm. 2 main deck Notion Thief seems a bit weak to me, all though I admit that he is sweet with Standstill. To me, the most important issue seems to be the mana base.
Nic Fit Scapeshift - Tournament Report
Finally got a chance to take my Nic Fit list to a local Legacy tournament, and had an awesome time. I think we had about 30-40 people attending, and I luckily got to play against a different deck in each round.
Here's the list I took:
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
3 Forest
2 Mountain
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
4 Taiga
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Burning Wish
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Wood Elves
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Scapeshift
2 Slaughter Games
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
Sideboard:
3 Carpet of Flowers
1 Innocent Blood
1 Reanimate
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Thoughtseize
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Scapeshift
1 Slaughter Games
1 Pulverize
Matchups:
Lands
1-1-1
Probably the most tricked out deck I've ever seen, lots of foils, Guru lands, FBB duals. This matchup was really interesting, because I had only a few ways to interact with him. As far as I could tell his primary win conditions were Punishing Fire grind and Dark Depths /Thespian's Stage recurrence. In Game 1 I was able to Scapeshift him for 42 damage, which was enough to overcome him sacrifing his entire mana base to Zuran Orb. I made a bad mistake in game 2 where I didn't exile a Glacial Chasm with an active Scavenging Ooze, which prevented me from winning the next turn, giving him the time to kill me with Marit Lage. In all of the games, Slaughter Games outperformed, allowing me to strip him of his Life from the Loam engine and Punishing Fire. Last game went over time, but I would have Scapeshifted for lethal within 2 more turns.
UWR Delver
2-1
This matchup went pretty well, he had bad luck on trying to flip his Delvers in game 1. Game 2 he flipped a delver first turn and then managed to keep me from resolving a spell for the next 4 turns. Game 3 was actually pretty close, with a small misplay on his part causing a second delver to not flip and then be able to swing for lethal. I was able to GSZ up a Thragtusk to stabilize long enough to Scapeshift.
Big Zoo
1-2
Played against an interesting Zoo build with Nacatl, KotR, Gaddock Teeg, and Noble Hierarch. I can't remember Game 1 very clearly, but I was able to pernicious deed away his board presence, and eventually win it. In the second game, I kept an iffy hand, and had my Veteran Explorer plowed on turn 1, preventing me from getting the black source I needed to play the two Deeds I had one in had. In Game 3, I ended up in situation where he had a huge Scooze on board and a Gaddock Teeg. I had a Veteran Explorer in hand, as well as a Diabolic Intent, but could not play them and have enough mana to tutor a Pernicious Deed and crack it to kill the two attackers. Ended up fetching a huntmasters, which got bolted and plowed. Top decked a Burning Wish which would have allowed me to Scapeshift for lethal if not for Gaddock Teeg. :(
Oops, All Spells
2-0
First game, he wasn't able to go off on Turn 1, and I managed to land a Veteran Explorer and a Cabal Therapy, followed by a Scavenging Ooze. He went for it anyways with the Scooze active, but had no way to win if I exiled his Dread Return target. Game 2 he made 10 Goblins on turn 1, but I was able to stabilize thanks to ramping chump blockers and a Thragtusk.
Jund
1-1-1
Game 1 was unbelievably grindy, with me eventually conceding when I literally had no threats left to GSZ, and both of my Valakuts were wastelanded. Didn't finish our second game due to time constraints.
BW Tokens/Stoneblade
1-0
This matchup was probably the longest single game I've played, and the biggest comeback. He landed and equipped a Stoneforge Mystic with a Jitte, and started beating down pretty quickly, eventually tutoring up a Batterskull as well. , but still kept taking damage. I eventually was forced to Scapeshift to prevent myself from dying, but he had gained life up to about 34 or so off Batterskull and Jitte, using 3 of the triggers to kill off the Germ and tapped Mother of Runes. I eventually managed to eliminate his Batterskull with a wish'ed Maelstrom Pulse when he didn't have enough mana to return it to his hand. This left me at 2 life. I managed to find answers to each major thing he did, with Pernicious Deed and Toxic Deluge big players, thanks to Diving Top, and a deck with literally no land left in it. From there I managed to land both a Thragtusk and a Primeval Titan and was able to beat him down just as time was called in the round.
Overall, Slaughter Games in the main deck felt awesome, being able to strip key cards from the opponent's deck was great. Biggest things to consider for the next time was play-testing more so that I didn't have issues running out of time during matches. The change I'd probably make to the sideboard would be to remove one of the Thoughtseizes in favor of a Life from the Loam, to retrieve mountains and/or Valakuts in a grindy matchup.
No.
Correct, I should probably have more fetches.Only playing 9 green sources doesn't seem acceptable when you are trying to cast veteran explorer and kitchen finks.
I agree, but I think 4 sac outlets is not really enough. I think I'll cut an explorer for a deathrite in order to allow these changes. Also, cutting a factory might be an option.If you are to play Standstill, the factories are obviously important, but I think that the Phyrexian tower and at least the 4th Island should be green sources.
Yeah the problem was having enough fetchesThe deck should probably play Brainstorm, and some more fetches to support it better. At least in BUG Pod I am always delighted to see it.
Also I should probably cut 2 lands if I'm adding in BS since it's basically worth half a land. Maybe a basic and a factory?
Maybe I don't have enough creaturesDo you think that you have enough creatures for Pod? I play a few more, and having too few is sometimes an issue. Deck space quickly becomes an issue, and it seems diffucult to play Pod, Standstill and Planeswalkers if you were to add Brainstorm. 2 main deck Notion Thief seems a bit weak to me, all though I admit that he is sweet with Standstill.
BS should help with that though. The 2nd notion thief is a possible cut, though I am worried about combo. I do have archmage though...
I agree.To me, the most important issue seems to be the mana base.
I don't think grave titan is completely necessary in here, so I'll go
-1 explorer +1 deathrite
-1 factory -1 titan -1 notion thief -1 swamp +4 brainstorm
-1 island -1 tower +1 rainforest +1 catacombs
May I ask why you would name Bridge from Below with Therapy?
Maybe he's assuming to have surgical extraction in hand when playing therapy
Sent from my mobile, forgive me for grammar errors.
Ignorance is strength
Still, wouldn't you pick an enabler like breakthrough or something else over bridge? Eventually they'll get one in the yard and you can just extract it at that point.
You name Bridge before the flashback then LED after the flashback to exile the bridges from the yard.
There is probably a better of sequencing of plays but my point is you do not name a dredge or ichord target
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