I wish all bUrg players a merry christmas.
I am planning to update the primer as the decklist will be slightly changed and a new little secret tech will be included.
I've seen this deck in a couple of European tourneys and it caught my attention,
I'm just asking, what happened to nimble mongoose?
A creature package of
4 delver
4 nimble mongoose
3deathrite shaman
3 tnn
Seems solid, or is tnn too slow of a beater?
I could see the spells be like
4 lightning bolt
4 thought sieze
3 abrupt decay
3 fow
4 daze
2 spell pierce
4 brainstorm
3 ponder
This is just a I made up on spot so for all I know this might suck, I've only read a couple of post in this thread before I jumped in, because I really like the deck
I forgot the 4 stifles too.
Merry Christmas bUrg'ers!
I plan on going to the Planetmtg End-of-year Event in Hanau, Germany. The event usually hosts some 150 to 200 players from Southwestern Germany and some Frenchmen. Over the course of 4 days, a myriad of tournaments take place – leading up to the large Legacy event on Monday. Of course, I will bring bUrg.
In general, I expect the meta to reflect the current international metagame – with slight local tendencies. We have many Dredge and Elves players in our region, several of which are very skilled pilots. In order to prepare for the tournament, I would like to discuss my list as well as sideboarding plans and some tactics for the event.
This is the 75 I intend to bring:
12 Creatures:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Vendilion Clique
34 Spells
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Wasteland
2 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
2 Abrupt Decay
14 Lands
1 Taiga
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
Sideboard
3 Submerge
2 Pyroblast
1 Life from the Loam
2 Flusterstorm
2 Grafdigger’s Cage
2 Fire Covenant
2 Golgari Charm
1 Ancient Grudge
Choices vs. stock list / Heisenburg:
I like the stock list as suggested by Sasan in the opening post – the slight changes are a result of personal preference mostly.
Over the last weeks, I have vigorously tested alternative configurations, particularly in the creature department. I have gone back and forth from 0-4 Mongeese, 0-2 Vendilion Clique, 0-2 True-Name Nemesis and 0-2 Tarmogoyf. I found the Heisenburg configuration absolutely great but lacking against Swords to Plowshare decks. Personally, I prefer [/cards]Spell Pierce[/cards] over Izzet Charm. The second Spell Pierce is an effort to better be able to protect my creatures – as such, I guess a matter of personal taste.
Current sideboarding plans (up for discussion):
Miracles
(+7) +2 Pyroblast, +2 Flusterstorm, +2 Golgari Charm, +1 Ancient Grudge; -4 Daze, -2 Lightning Bolt; -1 Taiga
As opposed to Sasan’s suggestion, I board out Taiga over the third Bolt. The matchup tends to be grindy, so the additional speed that Taiga brings to Decay does not matter too much. I prefer the reach of Bolt.
UWR Patriot Nemesis
OTP: (+5) +2 Pyroblast, +2 Golgari Charm, +1 Ancient Grudge; -2 Force of Will, -2 Daze, -1 Abrupt Decay
OTD: (+6) +2 Pyroblast, +2 Golgari Charm, +1 Ancient Grudge, +1 Life from the Loam; -4 Daze, -2 Stifle
On UWR sideboarding , I would highly appreciate any feedback – I think this one is really tough. I highly value the tempo plan in the matchup and really want to protect my non-shroud creatures and manabase. On the play, I do not board LftL and stay committed to the Stifle plan. He is one to two turns slower than us (due to TNN), and I want to leverage on that. I am not sure what the fifth card to side out is: Abrupt Decay is a concession to their Wasteland plan. An alternative would be taking out the third Force Spell Snare (since it “only” hits their Stoneforge), or Spell Pierce. On the draw, LftL is an important card to safeguard our manabase, and I do not want to lose tempo to Daze.
Elves
(+9) +3 Submerge, +2 Fire Covenant, +2 Golgari Charm, +2 Grafdigger’s Cage; -4 Daze, -4 Stifle; -1 Spell Pierce
For Elves, I do not differentiate between OTP and OTD. It is my absolute HATE matchup – and I am pretty convinced that I board too heavily with 9 cards. Stifle is a card that can do a lot in the matchup, and it may be right to keep it in. In my experience however, I’d rather have more removal and creatures. I do not want to board out Nimble (our worst creature in the matchup) as I am convinced that we need every pressure we can get. Spell Snare stays in, as Visionary is imho one of the most important cards to keep off the battlefield. The Elves matchup is the key reason that I choose Cage over Spellbomb or other gravehate, as it blanks 8 of their most important cards (GSZ, Natural Order). Another point to discuss: at 3CC, I feel that Fire Covenant is a little slow OTD – especially when things go wrong and they bring Ruric Thar.
Dredge
(+5) +2 Grafdigger’s Cage, +1 Pyroblast, +2 Flusterstorm; -2 Spell Snare, -1 Taiga, -2 Nimble Mongoose
RUG Delver
OTP: (+8) +3 Submerge, +1 Life from the Loam, +2 Pyroblast, +2 Flusterstorm; -4 Force of Will, -1 Vendilion Clique, -2 Spell Pierce, -1 Daze
OTD: (+8) +3 Submerge, +1 Life from the Loam, +2 Pyroblast, +2 Flusterstorm ; -2 Force of Will, -1 Vendilion Clique, -4 Daze; -1 Spell Pierce
8 cards is a lot – but I am pretty convinced with the plan. I exchange my maindeck Spell Pierces with Flusterstorms, as they are a strict upgrade in the matchup.
Sneak Show
(+6) +2 Pyroblast, +2 Flusterstorm; +2 Golgari Charm; - 2 Spell Snare, -2 Nimble Mongoose; -2 Stifle
I have a lot of experience with the matchup, and I am pretty convinced with this boarding plan. Sasan suggested cutting 2 Lightning Bolts in the primer, but I prefer cutting Stifle. Imho, Stifle does not do too much in the matchup (Annihilator, Grisel, Sneak) – in case these triggers/abilities matter, something else has clearly already gone wrong, I prefer combatting S&T on the stack. Keeping in 2 Stifles keeps the opponent be honest with their fetchlands and Griselbrands…Lightning Bolt however is a Timewalk, and we do not want grindy games against S&T
Death & Taxes
OTP: (+5) +2 Fire Covenant, +2 Golgari Charm, +1 Ancient Grudge; -3 Force of Will, -1 Daze, -1 Stifle
OTD: (+6)+2 Fire Covenant, +2 Golgari Charm, +1 Life from the Loam, +1 Ancient Grudge; -2 Force of Will, -4 Daze
ANT/TES
(+8) +2 Pyroblast, +2 Flusterstorm, +2 Grafdigger’s Cage, +2 Golgari Charm; -2 Abrupt Decay, -1 Taiga, -3 Lightning Bolt, -2 Nimble Mongoose
Again, I do not differentiate between OTP and OTD. In ANT, I like Cage for the ability to blank Past in Flames, taking out one full wincon for them. For TES, I leave out Cage (for two Bolts), as they imho only have PiF in the board, and do not use it as frequently as ANT. I do not have too much experience against TES, so is this right?? Charm enhances the permanent hate available in Abrupt Decay (used pretty much only for carpet and Goblin tokens) with a sweeper option.
I highly appreciate any feedback.
Best,
lurch
----------
- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -
----------
Opponent at BOM 8 Paris: "What's that card? I've never seen it before."
Me: "It's a Tarmogoyf. It tarmogoyfs"
Opponent: "What does it do? Judge!"
Judge: "True. It tarmogoyfs."
Leave at minimum 2-3 bolts in against combo. They might bring in xantix swarm, and bolt is still not a poor card.Originally Posted by lurch
Rest in peace, Grandpa Morphling.
Nemeses Slain:4
@lurch: The list and SB looks super solid. The boarding is ok if you take into account what KingSlayer said It is slightly different from mine. But your boarding plans are really ok. As you said: It is a matter of personal preference. Good luck :-)
@KingSlayer: We still wait for your list ;-)
@Deadpool09: Playing that much creatures makes your Delvers not flip blindly and it fells clunky. The more spells you play, the better. creatures are only there as the win option. But we only need the lowest amount we can afford.
Last edited by Sasan; 12-28-2013 at 10:57 AM.
Hi burger's
Let me introduce myself.
I'm from Berlin,Germany.
Together with Lurch we are are the ones who play German ***** and RUG here since GP Stradsbourg (RUG also years before).
We both are quite successful with the deck and i managed it to get into the semifinals in the berlin top 16 Tournament of this year 2013 last week.
I'm looking forward to share our experiences with this really powerful deck,it's by the way the only deck i play for several reasons.
By the way,here is my top4 list of this year:
Deck: German ******** by Kai Thiele
Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard
Creatures:11
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
Spells:31
4 Brainstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Ponder
3 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
1 Abrupt Decay
4 Daze
1 Sylvan Library
2 Dismember
4 Force of Will
Lands:18
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:15
2 Flusterstorm
1 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Pyroblast
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Artifact Mutation
2 Golgari Charm
1 Life from the Loam
1 Fire Covenant
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Submerge
- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -
- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -
beautiful deck, hideous bolts :(
- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -
Maybe i'm gonna replace gsz with a single thrun the last troll to combat jund and Bladedecks, we will see how the metagame will change until GP Paris in February next year
- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -
Welcome to the boards Kai :-)
It is shocking that your main deck looks a lot
like the newest one of Carsten - speaking of the Library especially. I will post our new list later :) Great work Kai!
I would however use TNN in the SB instead
of Thrun. It is better in nearly all aspects (Evasion and mana costs and no need to pay regeneration costs - only
the uncounterable thing of Thrun is a plus ;)).
Last edited by Sasan; 12-29-2013 at 07:00 PM.
Thx
Yeah its because i told carsten 3 weeks ago how incredibly good Sylvan libraray is right now and he agreed.
So sylvan library is my 12th creature,i tested Gsz in the slot but library is way to strong to cut it.
That's all because of the metagame switching from BGx to UWx due to True Name Nemesis
- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -
Yes we cut Goyfs/the Clique and added Library. The meta does not
play that much Decay right now. Library is what the deck needs. A mini-Jace that can control the game. bUrg tends to be the most controlish tempo deck and Library is bonkers right now. It makes our mana base better, is a 5th Mongoose or a 4th Shaman etc....
Why did you cut Taiga? Is there a reason for this? I suppose
it is because you rely far less on black than our lists due to only one Decay MD. So you can play with the RUG Delver land config and fetch for black if you have Decay in hand. Otherwise pinging with Shaman is sometimes needed early game, too so you cannot play with two lands in play.
Also I think the second Decay is better than the second Dismember. I want to have more outs versus Vial, Counterbalance, Rest in Peace etc.
The last slot that needs to be discussed is whether Dismember 1 should be 1 good old Counterspell in the new meta.
I do not know if your meta in Berlin has much Sneak Show decks but versus Sneak Attack Spell Pierce is mandatory. So
I play two Pierce effects in my 75. That is the only
reason for Pierce right now however. Golgari
Charm does not handle Sneak Attack that great.
But these are nuances - it is an overall great list that you have built.
Here is the latest list for the TNN meta.
Deck: Sasan's bUrg.dec
Maindeck: 60
Creatures:11
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
Spells:31
4 Brainstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Ponder
3 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Izzet Charm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
1 Sylvan Library
Lands:18
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Taiga
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:15
2 Flusterstorm
2 Pyroblast
1 Spell Pierce
3 Submerge
2 Fire Covenant
2 Golgari Charm
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Life from the Loam
Carsten Linden and I run the same main deck. The sideboard is nearly identical, too. He runs Ashiok over my one-off Pierce however. As I want to have a good counter versus Sneak Attack I cannot rely solely on Flusterstorms in the Sneak Show matchups. I also find Ashiok gimmicky. He also runs one Dread of Night over my Clique. With 2 Fire Covenants and 2 Golgari Charms we have enough versus DnT. Therefore I wanted a card that is groudbreaking versus TNN decks. Clique is that card (after Golgari Charm and REB).
Library is the new all-star of the deck. The card is like Jace and can help us to constantly cantrip and draw business - so it acts as Mongoose or Delver number five. Sylvan Library gives us an edge versus grindy matchups. It is nuts versus combo as the life loss is irrelevant. Sylvan Library makes our mana base better. As the meta moves away from Decay decks and supports Swords to Plowshares/TNN/Stoneforge-decks the card is really awesome right now. Sylvan Library however competes with the creature slots. And that is the reason I put it in that category. One does not play more than one main deck library. Library is the new secret tech of the moment.
Another nice addition is Counterspell. Yes the good-old Counterspell. It hits everything and is a hard counter versus TNN. As the matches versus the meta defining TNN.decs tend to go long and are grindy Counterspell is also a late game bomb. I highly advise to think about the card.
As Goyfs are not played as much as Nemesis' we could afford to cut one Submerge.
The new list has only two changed main deck slots and one changed sideboard slot compared to the old one (Library replaced Clique. Therefore we could afford to run a double blue spell again as Clique is not in the main deck anymore. So Izzet Charm was repleaced by Counterspell. The latter was always on the edge of being included and now it is there. One Submerge was cut in favor of Clique - or Dread of Night if you follow Carsten and his sideboard). I am happy that the new list does not change that much. After TNN was spoilered the lists changed every couple of days. But now it is stable. In fact the old list with Clique/Izzet Charm over Libarary/Counterspell is still fine and I highly doubt that one list is far superior than the other one. It is a matter of personal playstyle.
The list of sawatrix is nearly identical main deck wise - the Dismember versus Decay change is also a nuance. So there must be something about that configuration as Kai is also really happy and successful with his list.
The primer has been updated with the latest list and the sideboard guide has been adapted. However I stress in the primer that there are many flex slots and that this list is not the only one to be able to succeed. I highlight where you are free to choose and where some proven fix slots should be taken into account (like 4 Fow and Bolts or 4 Delvers for example).
Ever pondered about Llawan to put up a trump on meerfolk, opposing Delver and Nemesis? (under the premise of 4 DRS obviously)
Just a funny idea
www.theepicstorm.com - Your Source for The Epic Storm - Articles, Reports, Decktech and more!
Join us at Facebook!
Well, Dismember is in general a better card in this deck than decay for several reasons.
First of all,let's look at the mana cost.
I mean,1PP vs BG !
Dismember is a removal spell which can handle every single creature in the entire format on turn 1.
I have 6 turn 1 removal for an opposing deathriteshaman,similar to my RUG list which i piloted before GP Strassbourg.
In general,our turn 1-4 actions with wasteland,1cc removal,daze,stifle gets way better.The difference between 1cc removal and 2xc removal is huge here.
Second, let's look at the colour requirements of both spells.
Decay costs BG and Dismember 1PP.
If you start the game with volcanic delver go, you will never cast decay before turn 3 or even 4 (if you have 2 other lands in hand)
Dismember on the other hand is amazing,i can fetch easily for any land and even cast dismember with one of my wastelands.
The targets of both spells are slightly different.
While decay can get cards like counterbalance and rip out of the game,dismember can deal with huge creatures like tombstalker,kuldotha forgemaster and griselbrand.
I managed to kill grisel when my opponent blocked my goose and i dismembered his demon.goose survived.
But anyway,counterbalance and rip gets easily snared,so i don't care about the second decay.
Anything missing?
Oh wait,i can kick the worst land of my entire 75 ;-)
- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -
@Llawan:
4 Mana for a simple bolt target is really poor.
If you pay 4 mana for a spell in this deck,it should win the game on the spot, like Thrun oder even Natural Order
- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -
Ok fair enough but how about the life loss in combination with Library? Is that an issue?
And how do you fetch if you want to have a constantly pinging Shaman? Do you fetch for Usea and Tropical and only look for Volcanic if you want to bolt something? And for the second Usea if Decay is in your hands and the first one has been wastelanded and the Shaman killed? I just want to understand the play style ;).
Fun fact that you forgot concerning Dismember can kill the Germ token too.
How about second Dismember versus Counterspell?
With only one Decay MD I think it is right to have 2 Artifact removals in tr SB like you do ;)
BtW, I agree on Llawan. But it is still a nice unexpected tech if Merfolk and Bant take steam.
Well,a lot of people ask me about the combination of Dismember and Library.
I can just say that you have to play both cards with care.
In the mirror you can't afford to draw infinite extra cards because every single opposing creature will turn in a 1turn clock if you don't have the removal for it.
Against tempo(mirror) i try to cast dismeber dazeproof or with backup and then resolve library and filter my draws( no extracards usually)
Dismember can cast in the lategame for 3 mana as well.
Against midrange i get ahead on the board very soon and then i draw infinite cards to protect the boardstate until my opponent gets crucified.Midrangedecks don't play bolts so it's ok to get greedy.
Against combo i even don't have the combination of library and dismember.
I land an early thread,try to have 2-4 active counterspells (library can help me to get to this position) and win
- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -
Ok thanks before bUrg was introduced during GP Strasbourg I played without Decays and with two Dismembers and a Izzet Charm. It worked well. I think that your approach is understandable.
One question concerning your mana base: Are 3 Tropicals not better in your built than only 2? Perhaps it is because I like to play with 7 real duals for a better mirror matchup.
There are some minor questions left unanswered:
- Thrun instead of TNN
- 1 CS/1 Dismember instead if 2 Dismembers
- no Pierces in your list for Sneak Attack.
I think it is really interesting to hear the perspective from another burg player that has some nice tweaks to the stock list. So your answers are appreciated.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote
