[Deck] 12 Post

[Megadeus]

Kiora seems strictly worse than all the previous options. Only use i could see for her is an alternate win if you go fow main, dropping candelabras entirely.

My thought as well. Being 2UG seems just worse than having Oracle of Mul Daya being a single G

[TimHarding]

Going into a small tourney expecting several Merfolk and the usual TNN/Delver hoards I put in 3 Llawan and it was pretty sick lol

[Rock Lee]

Going into a small tourney expecting several Merfolk and the usual TNN/Delver hoards I put in 3 Llawan and it was pretty sick lol

Where was this!? I've been fiending for some action recently. HOlidays ruining all the mtg fun.

[TimHarding]

Where was this!? I've been fiending for some action recently. HOlidays ruining all the mtg fun.

West Hartford..

I know this is obvious to anyone familiar to legacy but llawan was good and wasn't as narrow as you'd imagine. It hits about, 40-50% of the deck types in tier 1. Realistically, it's still not required, but I'm going to keep it in mind if the format narrows. One fun play included repealing llawan to re-bounce a Merfolk army that was built by vials.

Also, I've been having a great time playing 1-2 cursed totems. I'm experiencing (and watching on scg) a lot of elves and sneak and show. Between those and needles I feel I have a solid amount of permanent based answers, while still siding in no less than 12 counters. Omni and storm seem to be on a big decline, since they're terrible, but if they return, the totems would go back to Glen elendra and chalice as that same-flavor permanent hate.

[203995014]

West Hartford..

I know this is obvious to anyone familiar to legacy but llawan was good and wasn't as narrow as you'd imagine. It hits about, 40-50% of the deck types in tier 1. Realistically, it's still not required, but I'm going to keep it in mind if the format narrows. One fun play included repealing llawan to re-bounce a Merfolk army that was built by vials.

Also, I've been having a great time playing 1-2 cursed totems. I'm experiencing (and watching on scg) a lot of elves and sneak and show. Between those and needles I feel I have a solid amount of permanent based answers, while still siding in no less than 12 counters. Omni and storm seem to be on a big decline, since they're terrible, but if they return, the totems would go back to Glen elendra and chalice as that same-flavor permanent hate.

Why is Llawan better than Devastation Tide? Any deck that I can think of that Llawan would be good against either simply doesn't care or can work around it. Is there something I am missing?

[That nice guy]

Why is Llawan better than Devastation Tide? Any deck that I can think of that Llawan would be good against either simply doesn't care or can work around it. Is there something I am missing?

I've been testing the hell out of Devastation Tide. Tim runs needles, so at some point he will have the needles on the board staring at wastes and not want to bounce everything. Honestly, I'd rather maindeck Elephant Grass.

[TimHarding]

I've been testing the hell out of Devastation Tide. Tim runs needles, so at some point he will have the needles on the board staring at wastes and not want to bounce everything. Honestly, I'd rather maindeck Elephant Grass.

Devastation tide is definitely less narrow, and probably better overall lol, but after testing it a lot I really felt the symmetrical effects (you're right about needles). It's a very clunky card. Overall I don't think post really needs a sweeper right now. But now with ponder joining the fun (I might do 2, but right now at 1) you can run some bomby hate and see it a lot more often. So noticing that my weaknesses have been elves and Merfolk (and TNN aggressive draws), the totems/llawan was my go to and it was good. If goblins were relevant I'd play elephant grass - love that card! This is just some silly messing with slots 13-15 of the sideboard, but I want to side in something "devastating" to supplement the counter suite lol

P.S. Needles have been MVP for weeks now! Every tier 1 deck gets slammed by it.

[civet five]

Devastation tide is definitely less narrow, and probably better overall lol, but after testing it a lot I really felt the symmetrical effects (you're right about needles). It's a very clunky card. Overall I don't think post really needs a sweeper right now. But now with ponder joining the fun (I might do 2, but right now at 1) you can run some bomby hate and see it a lot more often. So noticing that my weaknesses have been elves and Merfolk (and TNN aggressive draws), the totems/llawan was my go to and it was good. If goblins were relevant I'd play elephant grass - love that card! This is just some silly messing with slots 13-15 of the sideboard, but I want to side in something "devastating" to supplement the counter suite lol

P.S. Needles have been MVP for weeks now! Every tier 1 deck gets slammed by it.

Every time I take out Turbo Eldrazi, I run into nothing but Gobbos, Merfolk and DnT, so I've been keeping a Tabernacle in the 75, Needles in the main and toying with O-Stone and All Is Dust. I still like Devastation Tide and Temporal Mastery, but they aren't good in the combo matchups and the deadweight isn't worth it.

[sun tzu]

i was reading through the thread, and i found a post (that i should have quoted, sorry) saying rock was testing a build that splashed white. what white cards are there that would work especially well for this archetype other than the obvious swords to plowshares?

[203995014]

i was reading through the thread, and i found a post (that i should have quoted, sorry) saying rock was testing a build that splashed white. what white cards are there that would work especially well for this archetype other than the obvious swords to plowshares?

12-post isn't very good vs. combo. so Ethersworn Canonist would be amazing vs. those decks. The early game relies mainly on artifacts so the drawback shouldn't hit you that much.

[Rock Lee]

i was reading through the thread, and i found a post (that i should have quoted, sorry) saying rock was testing a build that splashed white. what white cards are there that would work especially well for this archetype other than the obvious swords to plowshares?

Early white dabblings were Knight of the Reliquary, then a build with stp and terminus, then just white combo hate.

Found that just maindecking fow was better.

[That nice guy]

I've been messing with 2 explore over 2 ponder. Not bad, not bad at all. ... but not as good as ponder.

I have been tempted to run the black splash just to throw in Pernicious Deed. Anyone out there try that?

[NEELEY]

12 post this weekend in indy. trying the trinket mage. share your thoughts

main deck

26 land

4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 vesuva
4 misty rainforest
4 tropical island
1 island
1 forest
1 bojuka bog
1 eye of ugin
1 karakas
1 glacial chasm

9 creatures

4 primeval titan
2 trinket mage
1 emrakul
1 ulamgo
1 kozilek

25 spells

4 show and tell
4 brainstorm
3 repeal
4 crop rotation
3 pithing needle
3 expedition map
3 sensei's divining top
1 candelabra of tawnos

sideboard

3 chalice of the void
4 swan song
2 oblivion stone
2 venser, shaper savant
2 cursed totem
1 flusterstorm
1 tabernacle

[sublime love]

@needly
Always 4 tops

[NEELEY]

@needly
Always 4 tops

I think 3 tops is fine with 2 trinket mage. i have done well only running three tops without trinket mage.

[203995014]

I keep reading that decks like RUG delver and Jund are amazing matchups for this deck but I just can't seem to beat them twice out of three. Could we have an updated primer or some insight on how to beat decks like this?

Also, what is the best way to go about a very meta-unspecific 12-post deck?

[That nice guy]

I keep reading that decks like RUG delver and Jund are amazing matchups for this deck but I just can't seem to beat them twice out of three. Could we have an updated primer or some insight on how to beat decks like this?

Also, what is the best way to go about a very meta-unspecific 12-post deck?

You're doing it wrong. You using the Ponder list? With me they only snuck out 1in5 while I'm rockin ponder. Playing against Stifle is weird, makes me not regret losing O-Stone. I will admit that against Jund's optimal line of play (T1-thoughtseize, T-2 Hymn, T3-Lilly, T4-waste, T5-waste) sometimes you just lose. I think maindecking 2 Needle is the right call with 4 ponder.

Rock Lee is always changing the deck so IDK how long that would last, but I think the ponder list is here to stay so some editing would be appreciated. I think in his "Space Reserved" it would be nice if he just did a long stream of sample hands. There are a lot of times when I look at a hand and don't know ho much faith I should have in the deck; I'll trow things back and then get a bunch of ify/situational cards like bog and then just wonder if I shouldn't have mulled. Ponder has really smoothed this out for me as well as the times when I feel like, "I just need one thing...".

[203995014]

You're doing it wrong. You using the Ponder list? With me they only snuck out 1in5 while I'm rockin ponder. Playing against Stifle is weird, makes me not regret losing O-Stone. I will admit that against Jund's optimal line of play (T1-thoughtseize, T-2 Hymn, T3-Lilly, T4-waste, T5-waste) sometimes you just lose. I think maindecking 2 Needle is the right call with 4 ponder.

Rock Lee is always changing the deck so IDK how long that would last, but I think the ponder list is here to stay so some editing would be appreciated. I think in his "Space Reserved" it would be nice if he just did a long stream of sample hands. There are a lot of times when I look at a hand and don't know ho much faith I should have in the deck; I'll trow things back and then get a bunch of ify/situational cards like bog and then just wonder if I shouldn't have mulled. Ponder has really smoothed this out for me as well as the times when I feel like, "I just need one thing...".

This is the list I am trying:

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/12-post-02-01-14-1/

I don't see how everyone else is doing it.

[TimHarding]

12 post this weekend in indy. trying the trinket mage. share your thoughts

Good luck! Over all I agree strongly with your lists.

MD: For the sake of higher % keepable hands I'd recommend +1 Top +1 Island, -1 Mage -1 Vesuva. There's few hands I'll mull that feature islands and tops. Otherwise I'm on something similar and I have good results. Needles are good.

SB: +2 Flusterstorm, -1 Tabernacle, -1 Chalice. With Mage you're effectively playing more chalices. And scg metas always have a lot of SnT combo and rug, flusterstorm is great IMO. My tabernacle might as well be a coaster these days lol..

This is the list I am trying:

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/12-post-02-01-14-1/

I don't see how everyone else is doing it.

IMO RUG is a good matchup and Jund is iffy/bad due to the extreme variance in the Jund matchup. They both hinge upon carefully exposing yourself to wasteland, and avoiding the "free win" lines of play that each deck features.

RUG: The waste/stifle/daze dance is something everyone in legacy should have some familiarity with. I want my hand to feature immediate access to a basic land (even better if you don't need to expose to stifle). A T1 artifact I feel is strong, to immediately start drawing out counters. I'll play around daze with tops, but I'll put candles and maps into the fray and hope they counter it. Then I'm looking to fire off show and tells (even bluffed), draw out more counters. And eventually build lands to cast Titan, or eldrazi. Strong plays include repealing delver, and crop in response to waste. You want to see these cards. Always representing these as options, and sculpting into these will push the card advantage into your favor over the first few turns. I've found it worst to sit back, being proactive and using your low cost answers is the strongest. Sometimes I play a cavern of souls when blue is as popular as it is now. Depending on their style I might put in flusterstorm to force things through. Maybe reveal a SB chalice to freak them out..

JUND: They have some lines that are straight scary. But brainstorm and Top help this out a lot! Games 2-3 I won't keep a hand without one of them. Again, another wasteland deck, so I want a basic first, to facilitate top/storm to play around all of their sorcery speed interaction. The goal is to not be parked with a Titan and eldrazi in your hand and getting hymned. Ideally I want to island>manipulate>land>artifact>land>show and tell Titan. Obviously that's never guaranteed, so optimizing to play off of the top of the library is what you need to be prepared for. Fetching. Top is essential. Also, needle is pretty great in this matchup naming waste. Also if you needle liliana, you can show and tell eldrazi without risk. Also, I've found that needling DRS or repealing DRS before it's active is HUGE. Couple that with a basic and some manipulation and you should be in good shape. Sometimes I put in flusterstorm, but I'm not sold on it. But overall, being on the draw and getting hit with their god draw will beat you, and the rest of legacy deals with this variance. Map, ulamog, chasm, candelabra are weaker cards you'll want to see less of in this MU, IMO. Luckily, this deck is on a decline as far as I can see.

I'd love to hear how others deal with Jund! And yeah, primers sound great

[203995014]

Good luck! Over all I agree strongly with your lists.

MD: For the sake of higher % keepable hands I'd recommend +1 Top +1 Island, -1 Mage -1 Vesuva. There's few hands I'll mull that feature islands and tops. Otherwise I'm on something similar and I have good results. Needles are good.

SB: +2 Flusterstorm, -1 Tabernacle, -1 Chalice. With Mage you're effectively playing more chalices. And scg metas always have a lot of SnT combo and rug, flusterstorm is great IMO. My tabernacle might as well be a coaster these days lol..



IMO RUG is a good matchup and Jund is iffy/bad due to the extreme variance in the Jund matchup. They both hinge upon carefully exposing yourself to wasteland, and avoiding the "free win" lines of play that each deck features.

RUG: The waste/stifle/daze dance is something everyone in legacy should have some familiarity with. I want my hand to feature immediate access to a basic land (even better if you don't need to expose to stifle). A T1 artifact I feel is strong, to immediately start drawing out counters. I'll play around daze with tops, but I'll put candles and maps into the fray and hope they counter it. Then I'm looking to fire off show and tells (even bluffed), draw out more counters. And eventually build lands to cast Titan, or eldrazi. Strong plays include repealing delver, and crop in response to waste. You want to see these cards. Always representing these as options, and sculpting into these will push the card advantage into your favor over the first few turns. I've found it worst to sit back, being proactive and using your low cost answers is the strongest. Sometimes I play a cavern of souls when blue is as popular as it is now. Depending on their style I might put in flusterstorm to force things through. Maybe reveal a SB chalice to freak them out..

JUND: They have some lines that are straight scary. But brainstorm and Top help this out a lot! Games 2-3 I won't keep a hand without one of them. Again, another wasteland deck, so I want a basic first, to facilitate top/storm to play around all of their sorcery speed interaction. The goal is to not be parked with a Titan and eldrazi in your hand and getting hymned. Ideally I want to island>manipulate>land>artifact>land>show and tell Titan. Obviously that's never guaranteed, so optimizing to play off of the top of the library is what you need to be prepared for. Fetching. Top is essential. Also, needle is pretty great in this matchup naming waste. Also if you needle liliana, you can show and tell eldrazi without risk. Also, I've found that needling DRS or repealing DRS before it's active is HUGE. Couple that with a basic and some manipulation and you should be in good shape. Sometimes I put in flusterstorm, but I'm not sold on it. But overall, being on the draw and getting hit with their god draw will beat you, and the rest of legacy deals with this variance. Map, ulamog, chasm, candelabra are weaker cards you'll want to see less of in this MU, IMO. Luckily, this deck is on a decline as far as I can see.

I'd love to hear how others deal with Jund! And yeah, primers sound great

For your RUG analysis, is that the general idea vs. all delver decks? Is the Jund matchup any similar to the Shardless BUG matchup?

Thanks for the advice, I've been doing much better.