[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

[GtF]

Just to mention a few more alternatives:

Tradewind Rider could be a permanent solution. Sounds a bit far-fetched. Which most answers seem to do. Perhaps it could at some point fit in the meta; it's not horrible against Show and Tell.

Opposition is a possible answer, but it needs some backup if they keep loaming and replaying the combo once every few turns. Perhaps together with Recurring Nightmare + Venser, Shaper Savant / Acidic Slime. And I can't stop thinking the Opposition might prove useful against a whole plethora of fat beast decks (Sneak and Show, MUD, Cloudpost etc). Sorry for being a bit repetitive on that point.

Opposition is one of my favorite cards and is very powerful. The deck might need to play some more token producers if it goes that route. The issue of not being able to tutor for it is pretty annoying though. If only we could afford to splash white for something like academy rector. But I don't think it's possible. It is a pretty solid solution to 20/20 from dark depths since it is legendary so they can't just make a billion of them

[Megadeus]

Opposition is one of my favorite cards and is very powerful. The deck might need to play some more token producers if it goes that route. The issue of not being able to tutor for it is pretty annoying though. If only we could afford to splash white for something like academy rector. But I don't think it's possible. It is a pretty solid solution to 20/20 from dark depths since it is legendary so they can't just make a billion of them

Deranged hermit plus nightmare is pretty good. I think. And those decks are generally pretty slow so it's possible to find the opposition off of a brainstorm.

[waSP]

Don't forget about Gifts in blue. May be a little slower, but you're not going for a quick fix with Opposition.

I could see doing the blue/white splash with Lingering Souls as well as Enlightened Tutor for search. Less green intensive Gifts piles might want Nature's Spiral.

[pfiremc13]

Intuition is better for that purpose.

[waSP]

I'm not convinced by your argument. I can see pros and cons for both.

Gifts
Pros: Card advantage, more lines of play.
Cons: Slower, needs 4 different cards.

Intuition:
Pros: Faster, can get 1 of a 3-of (such as Cabal Therapy).
Cons: Fewer lines of play, no card advantage

If it's about racing to get it in play, both are terrible. Better to just use Enlightened Tutor.

[Megadeus]

Played BUG fit to a 2-1-1 finish tonight. Here is my current list I tried out tonight:
3 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Baleful Strix
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Wood Elves
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Thragtusk
1 SHriekmaw
1 Acidic Slime
1 Grave Titan

1 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Brainstorm
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Recurring Nitemare
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Birthing Pod

1 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
3 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacomb
3 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp

SB:
3 Swan Song
3 Thoughtseize
1 Zur's Weirding
2 Golgari Charm
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Notion Thief
2 Krosan Grip
1 Aetherling
1 Toxic Deluge

Round 1 vs Dredge
I've never losta match to Dredge when playing a Nic Fit variant so I was decently confident. Game 1 he gets triple bridge from below and makes like 6 Zombies, I am able to get his bridges off of saccing explorer, but unfortunately I dont find deed and he kills me. Game 2 We both have awkward draws. My opener was like Explorer, Tropical, Scooze, Brainstorm, Therapy and spells. Seemed doable. Unfortunately I brick for a few turns after double brainstorm until I find Deathrite. Luckily he had a very slow start and I was able to keep him off of dredgers with DRS. Game 3 I get a nut hand if I dont die fast with Vet, Scooze, Therapy, and a couple of lands. He mulls to 5, I rip DRS off the top and play it and I just keep him off of dredgers with Scooze and DRS.

1-0

Round 2 vs UB Smallpox Reanimator Pirates Thing
It was awkward. The guy generally plays the same few different creatures but in different shells. He T3 Small Poxes my Strix and one of my lands, then casts reanimate, targetting his Cutpurse something while Im tapped out to make me sacrifice a permanent, my only land. I end up dying because I can't find lands. G2 I get explorer which is great vs him, and end up actually using recurring nightmare to get it back a couple of times to just start podding things like crazy. G2 he Smallpoxes my DRS and land on T2, then next turn reanimates it, but I get enough lands from explorer to get Sower of Temptation and take back my DRS, he never keeps me off of mana and I get grave titan and copy it with Image.

2-0

Draw with a guy into T8 because unfortunately the toilets were busted so they wanted to only do 3 rounds :/

Top 8 vs BUG Delver.
I played poorly and lost. G1 He gets a big board presence and I deed it away, unfortunately he gets Tomb Stalker. I rip deed and Crack it for 8. Sadly he has more deck manipulation than I do and he draws threats with both of us at low life totals and I dont have the answers.

Game 2 was awkward as I brainstorm lock myself out of lands with only 2 on board. He gets a tomb stalker and his delver had knocked me to 12. Stalker hits me to 7 and I have to eWitness back Strix to use as a wall. Unfortunately I forget I have a Deathrite on board so I don't cast Strix and get knocked to 2. He gets DRS down and I have to keep saving mana for my Scooze and DRS to keep his DRS from killing me. Slwoly I get Deed out, ready to crack for 1, but he rips disfigure to kill off my Strix and kill me. I misplayed a few times and it cost me the match. I think this is a very winnable, possibly even favorable, match up. Tombstalker is a bitch, but if I had one more turn I could've gotten out pod and gotten Sower to Take it. I'm willing to say that I definitely misplayed that one though and it cost me. Still have a few more weeklies to test before Nashville though. I'll have about 2 months of playing the deck under my belt by then to have gotten into the groove with it.

I did trade for a Natural order, and we were thinking about maybe a Natural Order Variant? I think I remember people in here trying, or at least talking about it at some point. What was the verdict on that?

[Megadeus]

I'm not convinced by your argument. I can see pros and cons for both.

Gifts
Pros: Card advantage, more lines of play.
Cons: Slower, needs 4 different cards.

Intuition:
Pros: Faster, can get 1 of a 3-of (such as Cabal Therapy).
Cons: Fewer lines of play, no card advantage

If it's about racing to get it in play, both are terrible. Better to just use Enlightened Tutor.

Sorry for the double Post, but how is Intuition not Card Advantage? I mean sure you only get 1 card in hand, but generally you are using some sort of GY engine or something to turn it into card advantage. Otherwise it is just Vampiric Tutor right? Add to the fact that you don't have as much deck building restraint because you don't have to build with a pile of 1 of's that do somewhat similar things seems nice too.

[waSP]

Point 1: Your argument that Intuition is card advantage in the same way as Gifts is self-defeating.

Point 2: Your only restraint is running a singleton Regrowth as most lists already have Eternal Witness. If you think Regrowth is terrible, then you probably fall on the Intuition side of the debate.

I think they're probably both pretty poor. But if you want a creature friendly tutor (i.e. not Diabolic Intent), that's what you're left with.

[pfiremc13]

In tutoring for opposition specifically, intuition is much faster if you run 3 and still faster even if you don't. Gifts gives you another cards which is relevant in different situations.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Intuition is better for finding silver bullets, as you don't have to include Regrowth to go for one to two Eternal Witness or Green Sun's Zeniths or one and one of each and one to two of your bullet. Actually, Intuition is a bit superior if it needs to be used again: Fetching two GSZs and a bullet means that you go grab another two GSZs or two witness or one and one of each more easily than not, especially when backed with Volrath's Stronghold to put "used up" Witnesses back into the library.

Gifts, however, is better for setting up powerful engines, particularly those with graveyard plays. Taking the above, you could go for Green Sun's Zenith, Recurring Nightmare, Eternal Witness, and Thragtusk with one more Eternal Witness in the library.

[pfiremc13]

I agree.

[Megadeus]

You could always get stronghold, loam, and creature. That's a solid pile that in the end, gets you your creature, though it is extremely slow.

[pettdan]

You could always get stronghold, loam, and creature. That's a solid pile that in the end, gets you your creature, though it is extremely slow.

If you choose to play Stronghold, you can Intuition for anything together with Stronghold and Witness. I've considered Loam too but can't figure out a good couple of cards to play along with it. Brainstorm obviously and fetches but that's not enough I think. Liliana works but not well enough to motivate it.

On another topic, basic deck building, I intend to continue my deck building efforts by focusing on what pod chains I want to run. First in general (aggro, combo, control), and then possibly vs specific matchups. Perhaps this is obvious and what everyone is already doing.

[Megadeus]

My thought process with pod is that I would like to have some sort of line of play for all sorts of situations. The only situation that I seem to be having difficulty with is when my opponent has an active planes walker

[GtF]

My thought process with pod is that I would like to have some sort of line of play for all sorts of situations. The only situation that I seem to be having difficulty with is when my opponent has an active planes walker

Planeswalkers are a big problem for this deck, Jace much moreso than Liliana. However, they're only really bad if they come down early or are backed up with defensive measures to keep us from building board position (like counterspells for pod or setting up terminus/entreat with jace). I'm not worried about having a 1 to 1 answer for planeswalkers when I have an active pod, because that active pod will compete with and likely beat that planeswalker with its card advantage. In a pinch, murderous redcap can assist a 1/1 to take out a jace.
The problem comes when the walker lands before an active pod is in the mix. Baleful strixes,veteran explorers and deathrite shamans just aren't too good at attacking as it turns out.
In my experience the best way to handle them is pre-emptive therapies and going about your own plan of establishing a board presence as soon as you can. If you wanted you could SB maelstrom pulse but if you shave too many creatures for it, you'll be reducing the power of birthing pod, and I personally don't have room with the dedicated combo board set up the way I do (which has been highly effective).
However, a poddible option I've heard mentioned is Vengevine - It attacks them well and unlike phyrexian revoker, it's not a card you are afraid to pod away. I could see it having some profitable returns as even a 1-of pod target out of the SB. It does get realy embarrased by true-name nemesis though.

[Megadeus]

That is an interesting one actually. I kinda like it, though it seems difficult to actually trigger its return ability

[jbone2016]

Planeswalkers are a big problem for this deck, Jace much moreso than Liliana. However, they're only really bad if they come down early or are backed up with defensive measures to keep us from building board position (like counterspells for pod or setting up terminus/entreat with jace). I'm not worried about having a 1 to 1 answer for planeswalkers when I have an active pod, because that active pod will compete with and likely beat that planeswalker with its card advantage. In a pinch, murderous redcap can assist a 1/1 to take out a jace.
The problem comes when the walker lands before an active pod is in the mix. Baleful strixes,veteran explorers and deathrite shamans just aren't too good at attacking as it turns out.
In my experience the best way to handle them is pre-emptive therapies and going about your own plan of establishing a board presence as soon as you can. If you wanted you could SB maelstrom pulse but if you shave too many creatures for it, you'll be reducing the power of birthing pod, and I personally don't have room with the dedicated combo board set up the way I do (which has been highly effective).
However, a poddible option I've heard mentioned is Vengevine - It attacks them well and unlike phyrexian revoker, it's not a card you are afraid to pod away. I could see it having some profitable returns as even a 1-of pod target out of the SB. It does get realy embarrased by true-name nemesis though.

Any thought to Hexmage?

[pfiremc13]

How would you tutor for it?

---

What do you guys think about a sac-heavy nic fit with 3 diabolic intent and 3 kitchen finks?

[from Cairo]

The deck can/has SB'd some number of Pithing Needle in the past, which is good against Planeswalkers and Thespian Stage. It's not horrible against some combo decks too - Sneak Attack, Elves, etc.

[pfiremc13]

Is revoker not just better?

They both die to deed, which could be an issue depending on the deck you're playing