I would have liked to side in chasm adn oblivion stones too, but simply I didn't know what to side out.Originally Posted by Maagler
Crop rotation have to stay since it can fetch bojuka in response to a reanimation spell.
Expedition maps fetch karakas and bojuka itself.
The creatures are needed to fight opposing show and tell.
Swords are removal for anything leviathan apart.
Brainstorm are needed for the blue count.
The only card I can think to side is one copy of top, because it's slow against combo and one single copy is all that you need.
I'm going to test terminus next: I can now say that this deck doesn't need karn because we already have inevatability against slow decks and Karn is not good against fast decks.
I think I'll play oblivion stone main deck and a couple of terminus in the side because oblivion is a catch all solution that kills planeswalker too. Obviously this will make sideboarding against reanimator tougher because I will have another 2 cards I would like to side in (and two less I'm keen to side out): guess I need to balance the 75 for the side strategies -_-
Ignorance is strength
If you require winnings in order to purchase more expensive cards, and require a sub-optimal but still competitive list in order to secure monetary value in the form of prizes to this end, I can safely suggest this list.
// Lands
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [LRW] Island (1)
3 [R] Tropical Island
2 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
3 [R] Volcanic Island
// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
// Spells
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [GP] Repeal
4 [US] Show and Tell
4 [M12] Ponder
3 [AVR] Bonfire of the Damned
3 [4E] Lightning Bolt
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 3 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 4 [ME] Force of Will
SB: 1 [FUT] Venser, Shaper Savant
While I normally don't suggest sub-optimal lists, but for a deck of this expense, I suppose I should consider them. There are some contentious points here and meta considerations as well. If your meta is heavy storm, drop x3 bolt, x1 show, and maindeck x4 Fow. If your meta is heavy reanimator, MD bojuka bog. If omnihalls is giving you a run for your money and pervades, swap the bolts for vensersx3. If Sneaky Show is dominating your meta, Pithing needles can fit in there, if Patriot and Jund is, then Sneak Attacks can.
Obviously the mana would get tweaked slightly in each of these changes, and sideboarding will be slightly different with this beast than the normal deck. If you require a brief VERY VAGUE primer on how to sb with this version, let me know.
@Kingtk
Reanimator is a good match up for post. But that deck can be a boss and still just jam out a big man (inkwell) and it's too big and fast to stop it.
Played a 24 man event Sunday with this, going 4-0
Split top 4 only cuz my opp in top was a friend (on reanimator)
// Lands
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Forest
4 Glimmerpost
1 Island
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
4 Vesuva
// Creatures
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Primeval Titan
2 Trinket Mage
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
// Instants
4 Crop Rotation
3 Repeal
// Sorceries
3 Show and Tell
// Artifacts
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Expedition Map
2 Pithing Needle
4 Sensei's Divining Top
// Sideboard
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 4 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Meekstone
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 4 Swan Song
SB: 1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Vrs a deck like reanimator SBing- for me
In:
1 relic
1 cage
1 meek
4 fluster
Out:
2 explosives
3 show and tell
1 repeal
1 oracle
I keep 2 repeals as out to needle and so I can go "infante" if need. The top draw trick is also ok. If I wanted the extra needle I would take one trinket out.
My meta is light on combo decks. Most of the combo decks I see are sneak, dredge, tin fins, omni, reanimator. we usually have a hi of 4 combo in the room(give or take)
So as you see most of the combo decks I could play vrs can be hosed out with grave hate, fluster/swan and needle.
my event went
R1 dredge
R2 affinity
R3 wu blade
R4 tezzerator bu
I bit of advice, repeal can still hit the enchantments lifting creatures, so I might keep it in on the play.
In an attempt to be better against combo I play-tested about 10 games vs it tonight. I found that it was still abysmal despite my 13 card SB.
SB - For reference: UG build
SB: 4 Force of Will
SB: 4 Swan Song
SB: 3 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 1 Drop of Honey
SB: 1 Tabernacle
I wanted to put the fourth crop rotation in there as well against reanimator/dredge/to get chasm and other goodies, but it seems that combo is still too harsh when my opponent knows how to play against me.
Suggestions? I'm thinking about dropping a Trap for the Vensor?
Engineered Explosives seems amazing BTW: Always giving value or buying you time, but doesn't solve the real problems.
Team Awesome: Busting Toilets since 2009
Meth!
First of all thanks to everyone for the feedbacks.
The problem I have with candelabra is that it costs too much for being a card played in only two decks (this and Time spiral): it's not like dual, fow or fetches. I hope to win one in some serious event, otherwise I cannot easily see myself buying one
The first iteration of turbo eldrazi I played was your UGr variant found here
The list above is very similar to the one I linked, basically the changes are:
- -1 lightning bolt +1 bonfire fo the damned
- -1 volcanic island +1 show and tell
- -3 expedition map, -1 bojuka bog +4 ponder
if I had to guess the reasons beyond these changes I'd say that
- 4 lightning bolt are too much and mid-late gmae bonfire is much stronger, even if normally casted
- without candelabras the fourth show and tell is a way to speed up the deck, which also helps to put titan in play without double green in play
- without candelabras actually the lands you play are "weaker", so you need to compensate with the spells, thus ponder is preferred over map because it can get you both lands and spells (and helps to set up bonfire)
Am I right?
After playing the deck a linked I considered that swords to plowshares is strictly better than lightning bolt (in this deck), while bonfire of the damned and karn (and now oblivion stone) are more or less on the same power level, the former being a win condition itself, the latter providing a catchall answer to non-land permanents.
If there isn't something I'm missing, why the red splash is better of the white one? Is it for the possibility of playing sneak attack in the side?
Also I could surely use a sideboard guide, even if vague: I could tailor it around the final list I'll be playing
Thanks again!
Ignorance is strength
The above (storm) combo hate is useless as soon as Xantid Swarm resolves. Swarm is really good against the classic 10+ counters side plan so it's all about if your opponent knows the deck or not. They might expect permanent hate and board in Decays instead of Swarm. You want to play Chalice beside counters. You need something you can drop on turn 1. Sphere of Resistance is the next best thing. Chasm is needed against Empty the Warrens.
Some of my friends sell records,
some of my friends sell drugs.
I keep in repeals and then hope to force it, but I think you're right. Swarm is really good. I sided into tabernacle in case of the Empty plan but that's just walking into a suckerpunch.
Team Awesome: Busting Toilets since 2009
Meth!
I think if you just compare swords straight up to lightning bolt, you will find swords is in fact better. But other than swords white does not have much to offer.First of all thanks to everyone for the feedbacks.
The problem I have with candelabra is that it costs too much for being a card played in only two decks (this and Time spiral): it's not like dual, fow or fetches. I hope to win one in some serious event, otherwise I cannot easily see myself buying one
The first iteration of turbo eldrazi I played was your UGr variant found here
The list above is very similar to the one I linked, basically the changes are:
- -1 lightning bolt +1 bonfire fo the damned
- -1 volcanic island +1 show and tell
- -3 expedition map, -1 bojuka bog +4 ponder
if I had to guess the reasons beyond these changes I'd say that
- 4 lightning bolt are too much and mid-late gmae bonfire is much stronger, even if normally casted
- without candelabras the fourth show and tell is a way to speed up the deck, which also helps to put titan in play without double green in play
- without candelabras actually the lands you play are "weaker", so you need to compensate with the spells, thus ponder is preferred over map because it can get you both lands and spells (and helps to set up bonfire)
Am I right?
After playing the deck a linked I considered that swords to plowshares is strictly better than lightning bolt (in this deck), while bonfire of the damned and karn (and now oblivion stone) are more or less on the same power level, the former being a win condition itself, the latter providing a catchall answer to non-land permanents.
If there isn't something I'm missing, why the red splash is better of the white one? Is it for the possibility of playing sneak attack in the side?
Also I could surely use a sideboard guide, even if vague: I could tailor it around the final list I'll be playing
Thanks again!
Red offers explosiveness as well as removal, with sneak attack and through the breach. If you are only interested in the removal side of the color splash, swords seems like a good option.
On the other hand, you could use something like vapor snag or snap as an on color removal spell. They buy you time and keeps you in UG.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using Tapatalk
Rock, what is your current UG list?
Has anyone tested Druidic Satchel?
Seems like it could do almost anything for the deck; gains life, makes blockers and ramps. And it gets much better with top as well.
Maybe with abrupt decay its not that great though...
thoughts?
@that nice guy
It should be clear that post is weak to combo. MD had zero counters. so no way to interact other then needle and gaining some life.
I would never play post with combo decks being the highest % of decks I am trying to beat. Post shines in "fair" deck metas.
play miracles or rug delver.
making this deck have a match up that something like rug delver feels good at, seems like a losing battle. To make that happen, you need to sacrifice all the good match ups.
Can't best em' change decks
// Lands
1 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
3 [LRW] Island (1)
4 [R] Tropical Island
2 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
// Spells
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [GP] Repeal
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
4 [US] Show and Tell
4 [M12] Ponder
4 [AL] Force of Will
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 4 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 3 [NPH] Gut Shot
SB: 1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
What with no major events in the last MONTH, I haven't been able to report on findings. So I haven't been discussing my changes and debated alterations.
I do like ponder more than I like map. But cutting a top for a crop rotation? What's your theory?
Also, I'd never play the deck without Glacial Chasm in the main.
Why Gut Shot? Why not Elephant Grass?
Team Awesome: Busting Toilets since 2009
Meth!
Map/Ponder/Top/Crop share a symbiotic relationship in their overlap. Despite me loving top, an increased ponder count and reduced map count necessitates a max'd crop rotate count.
I have been winning events with Chasm sb'd for months now, and long before that as well. The only matchups where you NEED it game 1 are elves and burn, helpful in outlier decks like MUD and infect and dredge.
Gut Shot is experimental at the moment, but I like where it is at. non-lord aggro, Aven Mindcensor, and elves all cut out in one fell swoop.
Elephant grass is for entirely different matchups, with the only real overlap being goblins, where gut shot is sub par anyhow.
I see, very interesting, seems streamlined. Brilliant.
I think maybe I'm foreseeing / fearing too much merfolk and random matchups like goblins and burn. The fringe does come up at a large tournament(and always seems to knock me out). I guess that's what gutshot is for.
Elves is nothing to scoff at though, it's everywhere and a very serious threat to be giving up game 1.
How have the forces main been? Seems like combo is already prepared to overwhelm them, so where have they shined?
Team Awesome: Busting Toilets since 2009
Meth!
Still haven't had a major event with the forces yet, but the testing has pointed them towards being very strong. Their major role is punching through the fow-shield that can keep delver-decks still irritating and having a chance of just barely eeking out match losses. Previously there were un-beatable hands, but this configuration minimizes those circumstances.
Against combo, simply having fow main isn't sufficient against 75% of the combo decks out there, but still gives you game.
Again vs elves, I dislike having to likely go down to 1 permanent vs them and still having to win vs deathrite untaps.dec, which they can transform into easily.
I found with 4 ponder and 4 show, also merfolk losing to any fattie not just titan, that the problems vs aggro have been minimal, and assembling s&t/titan is easy.
Last edited by Rock Lee; 01-10-2014 at 07:27 AM.
So I've been testing your list card for card online and this is what I've noticed so far:
Force of Will is a beast. It gives us turn one outs as well as a way for our Show and Tells to not to be as dead against other Show and Show variant decks. Feeding Show and Tell to a Force of Will to kill their Show and Tell kills two birds with one stone. And the best part about Force of Will in this deck, so far, is that when I didn't have a spare Blue card to pitch, I realized that I could hard cast it before other decks would have the mana to do so.
Swan Song is self explanatory good, but emphasize... I really like it. It shores up other matches where siding in Flusterstorm is a questionable but still reasonable choice to the point where I don't have to anymore.
I don't miss Expedition Map; I wish I'd thought to suggest replacing it with Ponder back when we first disagreed over Map, but Map has been effectively replaced. Now that we're picking up cantrips, it does make me curious about whether or not we can find room for or test out Preordain.
Last edited by Mockingbird; 01-11-2014 at 12:44 AM.
Could we use something like Devastation Tide instead of Gut Shot? Gut Shot just seems really narrow...
Or maybe if you're in a meta that requires Gut Shot you might as well just use the red splash?
12-post Discord: https://discord.gg/QxYVg3g
When I see creatures with 1 toughness, I'm glad to see or want to see Gut Shot because killing is a better solution than bouncing, but I'm not dedicated to that idea enough to say add red mana to solve them and more with Lightning Bolt because I like the idea of mana free removal.
I don't know if I'm going to say Gut Shot has to stick because something better can easily come along, but thus far it's worth my side board space.
Last edited by Mockingbird; 01-12-2014 at 12:25 AM.
An important question when building sideboards is "why?" Too-often people want to add cards simply because they want to improve a matchup that doesn't need improving, or because they like one card in particular. In this deck that flaw is fatal, since the cardpool is enormous both in function and due to massive mana availability.
I welcome you to tell me how Devastation Tide is a good card in the current meta. I would challenge you that against decks where you would side it in over Gut Shot, it is sorely too slow, and against decks where gut shot is dead, you have solid game against with this build.
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