Higgs, I guess that it's not welcome to have three quotes in signature, am I right?Originally Posted by Higgs
counterfeits? - finally! clap clap clap ... WotC deserve it... or we do?
obv. abolishing reserved list solves nothing if original prints remained legal = extreme scenario is "currency reform" into holograms or separating price/supply factor - therefore, radical change, cards for everyone - market crush into worthless shit (and they will do so in pompous manner if counterfeits are good enough to "take a share")... obv why reserved list exists is agregate loss of their corporate partners + distro network (lgs) +uncertainity > agregate expected gain ... Do I have to empahasize they dont give a shit about your collection (but have to respect other shop collections)...
or this just brings "exit paper cards" phase in their x year bussiness plan nearer... to which worst obstacle is mtgo itself, LOL, how dilettante could this company become lined by milestones of missed opportunities... I feel exploited and manipulated more than in real life, another example of amateurism...
btw. I'd gladly buy 10000 seas, but what to do with them? throw them at random people at some GP I guess...
I think that while the intentions for the holographic mark are there, I'm not too sure if it will work in practice. The stamp isnt going to make goyfs, jaces or lilianas in circulation cost less unless they reprint them which serves the same purpose either way. The only cards this kind of stamp protects are potential new cards that are on par with these (power level wise, and availability wise) that have yet to be printed. Wizards sees this as a counterfeiting problem, where I think it is more of a pricing problem. Counterfeiting has always been around, and will continue to be around, the only thing that will change this is reducing the incentive to counterfeit (ie making it so that there arent staples that cost over 100$ for a single card).
Why print 25$ bills when you can print 130$ bills?
I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel
"Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."
:D A picture is worth a thousand words.
Legacy: Rituals
Vintage: Drains
They see the problem and they have to start something somewhere (M15). After that I hope to see many reprints AND info "If you really want to be sure your cards are not fake, make sure to acquire newest version with holo" = buy new stuff.
Therefore I demand the reprints to be produced with original design. I ain't playing my duals with this ugly-ass new frame. I'd rather quit than to play a game that ugly. The only way out would be complete deck alteration. But... $$$
Legacy
- Team Soviet Union
Pauper
- U/R Delver
- Urza Tron
Chinese fakes!
Why would they abandon the paper market anytime soon?
While MODO makes them loads of money, it can't replace the real thing. How would they draw in new customers with a product as shitty as MODO? We have to put up with it because we love the paper game, not this steaming PoS.
If high quality fakes started to flood the market, I wonder how long it would take Wizards to take action. I doubt they could track them down all, especially in China. Maybe it's even eventually going to the abolishment of the Reserve List - not because they care about the value of your collection, but people making millions of their property.
That might be one of their intentions.
The biggest losers in the entire thing might be the collectors/hoarders/speculators who drove up the price in the first place. If those fakes pass the common tests like the UV-Light and aren't off color, how do you distinguish them (at least when you play them in a tournament)? Would the people of your LGS be able to tell the difference, especially when your stuff is sleeved up? Have people been disqualified for high quality fakes yet?
It seems likely that WotC knew about the Chinese fakes and rushed out the hologram info to retain consumer confidence. If that's the case, maybe it isn't a finished design? I don't mind the new design (although I much prefer the old frame and Future Sight frames) but I know a lot of people hate the text box going past the color frame and some other things.
The bigger question might be: Does it even matter if people use high quality fakes?
I don't think they were trying to do that with the Slivers. Heck, they weren't even originally going to be Slivers from what I remember reading, but then the reaction from all the playtesters was "why aren't these Slivers?" so they changed them to Slivers. Though I think this was before they set up the new style artwork, so you can't really blame that issue on that, but if the whole goal was to try to get people back into Standard I'd expect they would have had them be Slivers at the outset.
Personally, I think some of the long-overdue reprints they've been doing (shocklands, Mutavault, Scavenging Ooze, Thoughtseize) have probably done a better job getting older players into Standard than anything else.
Slosh, u married? Coz... u know... ;-)
I once boozed myself like a real rocker on some bigger tournament and started throwin' cards from binder all over the place. They kicked me out, of course. It is many years ago. Many, many.
Someone got my Channel still. I mean the card, not a youtube...
They can't start in past.
I'd gladly play them with 8th Ed. frame, I ceased to dislike it after what they have done now. Also, as I'm a great fan of uniformity and I'd love to have my Thresh completely Chinese, completely Modern-framed. (Well, I'd love to have it completely Chinese, completely Ancestral-framed, but guess what: there aren't many Chinese Trops, Volcs and FoWs...)
First question: because of money. It might be expensive, all the prints, and distro, and such. IDK.
Second question: IDK again, I just decided half a year ago that I won't be the one to agonize over it. You know who's the less concerned about any change in Magic? The one who doesn't own any Magic.
It's too late
Too late
It's too late
Too late
It's too late
Too late
Too late
It's too late
Too late
Too late
Too late for apologies.
My confidence is lost. Out of the several main reasons why I'm (slowly, yeah...) getting away from this, the uncertainty about the future of this game was at least the second most important. I don't trust in this game anymore. Ok, maybe I'm overreacting, but I'd rather be the one who's crying that he sold everything, than be the one who's crying because he kept. At least... I'm used to the first.
Depends. Does it even matter if you spent quite some money and then realize you got fake, or you'll get banned from torunaments, or even someone sues you after you bona fide sell him your Beta USea? Of course that these thiíngs might not happen, and of course that even massive reprints (lets say one set per year since 1994) wouldn't definitely help, but...
Not entirely what I meant. I understand that selling fakes without saying they're fakes is bad and that buying fakes thinking they are real is bad as well, but if someone is playing with fakes and those fakes give the player no way to cheat, should he be barred from playing the game at an event? At that point you possibly want to think about taking miscut and altered cards out of tournaments as well, seeing as those could hide telling signs of the fakes.
well I do not understand how could anyone participate in Modo economics in the first place... in a world where 40$ retail pc game isn't worth buying people burn out their money in low return tournaments that chain you to your PC for x hours and in one form require you to invest x times more into virtual nothing where can you play with you stocks for a fee...
OMG both software and virtual product is soo bad by any industry standard - this reminds me of Music industry - how could be people in charge of things be so out of reality of their own bussiness
ehmm so imagine Modo software works, there is a low barrier of entry (ready cheap cards, or monthly fee for everything, or just reasonable directed market supply to retain acceptable costs), insta sell at market price - no idiotic bots and such... If you offer this at
A, game is discontinued in paper,
B, market full of counterfeits = cards have no value - therefore there is no point in reprinting
you get a lot of money for nothing... I imagine this can happen only after the GP&Pro thing collapses
If really fakes ~ originals into degree where fake = originals because of market flood, hell I always thought Mtg could be interesting artificial economics study...
If wizards miss the opportunity to print&sell the reserved list cards I'll laugh my ass off holding my tears with Force of will, to not turn wasteland of my cards into underground sea...
Reprinting the old staples with the new holo thingy won't change anything. It will just make the new ones skyrocket because they are the only ones which give you an insurance that you won't lose money on them. (that is if the stamp can't be faked)
So printing a Goyf in the new frame will make it the most expensive Goyf. Bad situation overall. Well just my 2cents
Yes, I thought you meant this and you're quite right, trouble is that there's no way how to determine if that player used fakes on purpose. Even if his deck woul look like 60/15 of fakes, there's still no proof that he made it deliberately. Would you ban him? Idk...
________________
This.
Yeah, that's the exact thing that occured on my mind this night - it's just like music industry. They're overrunned by pirates and such and instead of making something "revolutionary", they just insist on dicking around with their" copying killz muzick" stupidities. Like if I care if some elderly rockstar doesn't have enough money for his everyday's dose of cocaine... Look, I work in a record manufacturee and guess what, ppl are buying vinyls like crazy and there's nothing can stop them. I see albums like "Diabolical Fullmoon Mysticism" by Immortal, Cloudkicker's "The Discovery", Black Sabbath's "You name the album", etc. Basically their reprinting Lotus after Lotus and I see it works. Retruning back to MtG: why should I pay for a CD version of Technohead, when I can have an LP version of Motörhead... oh wait, "we at WotC no reprint Motörhead because collectors. Here, have your Technohead instead, they come with ugly frame, too."
I-di-ots.
Yep.
That's what Karpov once said, MtG is a secondary economic system which you enter by purchasing cards/boosters that can't be changed back for money and now you just operatein this new system, using its own currency. Note that we've discussed very old school times, before the advent of (online) stores, and such, so it isn't 100% tru today...
Ok, now you've done it.
Reading through the Reddit thread about the Chinese counterfeits has got me seriously considering selling out of the game. Basically all the comments were like "I hope this crashes the value of eternal cards" and shit like that, as if it's even going to matter because when sanctioned eternal events are overrun with fakes they will quickly cease to exist. Every comment that even implied buying counterfeits was wrong was downvoted to oblivion. I don't think the supply chain is there yet for these selfish idiots to proxy out their cube by supporting this but whatever. I mean if you're going to buy from some counterfeit network, whatever nothing I can do to stop you, but the entirety of Reddit has already gone into full blinders on mode and basically convinced themselves that supporting this is the just and moral thing to do. I mean the levels of people diluting themselves there is insane, you would think counterfeiting a game gives you a nobel prize the way people there were justifying it. I might as well sell out now before it gets to the point where every card is scrutinized like a Mox and it just gets impossible.
big links in sigs are obnoxious -PR
Don't disrespect my dojo dude...
Sweep the leg!
You might see that as a good thing. Could be that there are a ton of people that want to play eternal but just can't afford it. I think a lot of people here have said they wouldn't even mind if reprints hurt the value of their collection, as long as it meant more support for the format.
I haven't read that thread though, so I could be way off. Not that I think supporting counterfeiters is right, but I'm not really against lowering the entry barrier either.
I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel
"Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."
Yeah I feel this way. I don't have a godlike collection but I have duals and forces and other legacy staples worth about $2k and I think this is fantastic news. I'm not going to sell my cards, they've brought me a lot of fun and I want to continue playing with them in the future but I'm glad to see this happening. I think at this point I dislike wotc so much that anything like this that could potentially help players and screw over wotc is ok by me. Maybe they need something to shake them up and I would love to see wotc shape up and start producing better content for the game and reduce prices, but even if that doesn't happen I'd still like to see them fail and lose money.
I'm fine with my collection losing value if it means more players, but who exactly is going to run Legacy events when all the new kids are buying proxies overseas? I was under the impression stores held events to buy/sell cards not out of the kindness of their hearts. That is basically what happened to Vintage except the counterfeiter was a black sharpie, but once people stop buying cards the format will dry up pretty quick (I mean imagine Legacy in the US right now without SCG in the game). So far only a handful of staples have been printed but with people talking the way they are it will be more soon because the demand is definitely there.
big links in sigs are obnoxious -PR
Don't disrespect my dojo dude...
Sweep the leg!
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote
