[SCD] Spirit of the Labyrinth

[DragoFireheart]

White is about balance and equality. Spirit makes sure that each player only draws one card per turn. Sounds pretty white to me.

So this makes black about imbalance and inequality?

[insert racist joke]

Delver should have been black

What? This makes no sense at all.

[Lemnear]

What? This makes no sense at all.

2 pages back that was explained. In the Tradition of Vampire lacerator and Carnophage Delver should have been a 3/2 for B with the "drawback" of starting as a 1/1 unless you reveal cardtype X. A blue, evasive creature what you can Ride to victory by flipping counterspells for it and to protect it turn for turn is stupid and too simple

[DragoFireheart]

2 pages back that was explained. In the Tradition of Vampire lacerator and Carnophage Delver should have been a 3/2 for B with the "drawback" of starting as a 1/1 unless you reveal cardtype X. A blue, evasive creature what you can Ride to victory by flipping counterspells for it and to protect it turn for turn is stupid and too simple

But it doesn't make me lose life or any other black-staple-disadvantages (sac a creature, discard something, etc). The flavor is correctly blue, but the correct is just too powerful. Should have been a 2/2 or cost more.

[Lemnear]

But it doesn't make me lose life or any other black-staple-disadvantages (sac a creature, discard something, etc). The flavor is correctly blue, but the correct is just too powerful. Should have been a 2/2 or cost more.

We sure can discuss if the flip-condition should be worded in a other way. It was more about 1cc black creature with increased P/T but handed with a drawback (starting as a 1/1). That's all

[Lord Seth]

We sure can discuss if the flip-condition should be worded in a other way. It was more about 1cc black creature with increased P/T but handed with a drawback (starting as a 1/1). That's all

Except all colors get that sort of thing.

[TsumiBand]

The ambiguity of perception is a tricky bitch, but after some consideration ultimately I disagree with the assertion that Delver of Secrets is a "creature with a drawback". It is not expressly a 'drawback' that Delver of Secrets is only conditionally a 3/2. It is a 1/1 with an ability; that it has the capacity to grow does not mean it is inherently designed with a drawback.

There are a slew of cards that are more or less extensions of this idea.

Figure of Destiny
Student of Warfare
Coralhelm Commander
Really just any card with level up/flip/transform* that isn't overcosted bilge
Werebear
Mystic Enforcer
Nimble Mongoose
Kird Ape
Loam Lion
Wild Nacatl
Exalted Angel
Whipcorder
Zombie Cutthroat
Putrid Raptor
Any non-crappy Morph guys or Metalcraft guys or Affinity guys or etc…

I mean really, what's the actual difference between a creature with Threshold and a creature with Transform? "If [condition], this card gets [bonus]." It's not as if a 1/1 vanilla creature has a bonus because it can never flip around to be bigger than it is right now.

*many Transformed cards do have a drawback on the transform side, namely "if some dick cast too many spells, flip this". But it's hard to directly compare transform cards to cards with a single face; really the whole transform effect is a bonus, so it's probably fairer to say "the bonus has a drawback"… which Delver of Secrets doesn't even have, so.

[Lemnear]

Ok, it's not that Delver or SCM are a topic here. Just was my take on both. We are here to discuss SotL and I was free to disagree with the idea of it being better fitted in red

[Dzra]

I see no real argument for why Spirit should have been any color but White, just like I feel like Delver's flip is a very Blue mechanic. That doesn't mean that Delver should have ever been printed at all, or that Red couldn't use some more powerful creatures. I feel like they got the flavor of Young Pyromancer correct, though its power level is just slightly under being powerful enough.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Werebear
Mystic Enforcer

I cried.


The pre-order prices are at 8 bucks or so. I don't find those 30 dollars needed for a play set on a sidewalk every day, otoh, it's not that expensive. From what happened with SFM, Ooze, DRS and TNN, I think this isn't appropriate.

[Barook]

The pre-order prices are at 8 bucks or so. I don't find those 30 dollars needed for a play set on a sidewalk every day, otoh, it's not that expensive. From what happened with SFM, Ooze, DRS and TNN, I think this isn't appropriate.

Since only a specific subset of Legacy decks in interested in this card, I expect it to drop alot in price.

[Whippoorwill]

Not sure if it's been brought up yet, but I look forward to playing against this with Vendilion Clique. Instant speed Thoughtseize on a 3/1 Flier.

[Fatal]

In sum about SoL:
- it has impact on specify cards/decks:

1.Griselbrand ability/Enter the Infinity (S&T/Omni/Reanimator)
2. All brainstorms/cantrips - mostly U combo decks + 80% of the format - anyway BUG/RUG will mostly just kill it before cantriping - its a problem only for combo decks like sneak/spiral/ant - ANT also, but mostly only when hatebear player is on play - since 80% of games looks like turn 1 duress/cantrip, turn 2 brainstorm -> sculpted win, when hatebear player starts this line of play can't be played (probably most ANT player know that they need turn 1 kill or answer for turn 2 hatebear).
3. Small impact on BUG/RUG/Miracles - since those decks running a lot of removal, hatebears which doesn't protect itself (like gaddock vs miracles, or thalia with mana taxing) doesn't provide too much. Thing changes with AEther Vial and suprise factor - for example vs Brainstorm without open mana specially on their turn to fetch shuffle, I think this factor will change a lot in play line in most control decks.



Also don't forget it has very aggresive stats 3/1 which is very good for 1W.

On the end a word about environment- format is too focused on TNN and -X/-X / wrath effects so after it goes down this card become much more playable.

[Higgs]

The pre-order prices are at 8 bucks or so. I don't find those 30 dollars needed for a play set on a sidewalk every day, otoh, it's not that expensive. From what happened with SFM, Ooze, DRS and TNN, I think this isn't appropriate.

Actually I'm considering to get a playset, getting them signed by the artist and then commissioning them for a troll face alter. Maybe I can sell them for a premium to some ecstatic brainstorm haters. I know even I'm getting a kick out of the possibility of slamming a troll-faced Sol on the table and pissing people off :)

[Finn]

@Delver in blue: Andre Delambre or (more likely) Seth Brundle
The card is all about flavor.

[Lemnear]

Actually I'm considering to get a playset, getting them signed by the artist and then commissioning them for a troll face alter. Maybe I can sell them for a premium to some ecstatic brainstorm haters. I know even I'm getting a kick out of the possibility of slamming a troll-faced Sol on the table and pissing people off :)

Text: YOU MAD, BROstorm?!

[Higgs]

I think I'm past the threshold of being annoyed and reached a point where I'm just laughing at the direction this game is headed to.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Not sure if it's been brought up yet, but I look forward to playing against this with Vendilion Clique. Instant speed Thoughtseize on a 3/1 Flier.

Two times. Two times I tried to bring discussion to this interaction, but no one ever cared.
Is it powerful enough to be included in one deck, esp. in one that... is blue?

I think I'm past the threshold of being annoyed and reached a point where I'm just laughing at the direction this game is headed to.

I'm past the point of keeping anything else then Threshold, and I'm actively dissolving my Legacy collection, while I hoard the cards for Retro Magic. Maybe I'm idiot. After all, some ppl on this forum already think so.

[LeoCop 90]

The effect of SotL simply is nothing what has any link to Reds color indentity. A guy what Shocks for each blue instant played however would fit

.

I think that is the wrong attitude of wizard. Nothing is part of red's color pie, except dealing damage , as i already stated. If they printed a 2 mana, 3/1 creature that reads: "whenever a player draws the second card in a turn, shock him" , it simply won't be good. Dealing 2 damage is not like impeding the draw. To be decent it should be like 5 damage.

Ok, taxing is part of white color pie. But spirit doesn't strictly tax, it has an effect that could be easily justified in a red card in my opinion... named like "contagious idiot". Plus, white recently received the best hatebear wich is thalia, so no real reasons to give white another one. Then again, why the hell spirit of the labirinth is a 3/1 ? A fucking spirit sitting on a chair looks like a 1/3 at most to me , or 0/x. Even the stats look more red than white.

I agree though with who said that red recently started to get some draw/discard effects... but i hope they will print some decent effect of this kind for red, or it is just a joke.

[FieryBalrog]

.

Ok, taxing is part of white color pie. But spirit doesn't strictly tax, it has an effect that could be easily justified in a red card in my opinion... named like "contagious idiot".

Um, no?

If you want to complain about how red is weak, I think most people agree with that. Has nothing to do with this card whatsoever. Snapcaster should've been red- that's a legitimate argument.

[Cire]

What about SOL and Winds of Change? 1WR and reduce each player to top deck mode? You can get that combo going by turn 2, and have fun beating down with a 3/1.. . .