All B/R update speculation.

[Lord Seth]

Article, not from Wizards though, confirming that the update is tonight:
http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...olding-modern/

I have received a lot of conflicting info on this, so we'll see if it goes up tonight.

No, it's not tonight. It's next week. See here.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Well then lol @ channel fireball.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[conboy31]

Why "lol" at channel fireball? WotC had previously confirmed Jan. 27th on twitter.

https://twitter.com/Wizards_CS/statu...32228469915650

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Well shit.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[DragoFireheart]

tl;dr WotC is brain farting.

[alphastryk]

next week:

http://wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Ar...ther/01272014a

[(nameless one)]

LOL. Trolling by WotC

[conboy31]

When it does finally arrive i'd like to see around 5 cards come off the lists between vintage, legacy, and modern. Flash is an easy unrestrict in vintage.

[Lemnear]

When it does finally arrive i'd like to see around 5 cards come off the lists between vintage, legacy, and modern. Flash is an easy unrestrict in vintage.

Please what?? Have you ever played with Flash? The era with MUD/Flash/Gushbond at it's top was stupid as fuck!

[catmint]

Can people please stop to claim that "deed is a really good card right now". Of the many flawed "just adapt to TNN" arguments this one is particularly annoying. Deed is not a card you can just put in your deck. You have to build your deck around it and the biggest problem with it is that it has a pretty bad antisynergy with permanents in general and especially the best BG card in the format. Deed shines in Nic Fit and BUG loam/standstill control variants which have engines to support this strategy.

If you suggest to play a deed deck in order to crush the meta then go ahead and others will follow. You will need really good reasons not just play the best control deck in the format.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Honestly, the argument to ban TNN "because ___ deck died" is a pretty poor battle to fight. I don't care that there are a lot of Blue decks; people will like playing Blue in a format capable of t1 and t2 wins. I don't care that RUG or Jund are putting up bad numbers right now; decks will always be falling out of favor due to various meta occurrences. The only argument for doing something about True-Name Nemesis is that it is a completely non-interactive card that should not* be.

This.

The issue is not power; every card in Legacy is expected to be powerful. The issue is that True-Name Nemesis breaks the rules by being both low-risk and non-interactive.

And... this.

In a few years, we'll be playing hideous, miserable games because the format is saturated with stupid shit like TNN and [cheatycard]=>[Omnidrool+EnterTheZZZ, Griseltard, Jin-Git, Emratrolol]. Yet none of those cards were "something the format can't deal with" or "bannable enough".

The argument against TNN has never hinged on raw power level. The key crime is just leading to absurdly shitty games of Magic, and being strong enough that those games actually get played.

Funny that you mention this.

No more than two years ago I was able to place myself quite often (and sometimes even take away some nice souvenir), be it top4 placement in CZK 10000 tournament (RUG), or dual for a 2nd place when the next lgs opened (ANT), or top8ing one of Zuzy Cup tournaments (RUG again?), the occasional Thursday wins I don't really remember (except when I won my sixth or seventh Flooded Strand). Today? Well, I haven't placed myself reasonably (not to mention any win) for two years.

Ok, but this might be due to the fact that I suck at this game of Magickal Gatherable Cards.

So I was looking for a remedy; I was systematically trimming down the decks I use (and also my whole collection) in attempt to "specialize in decks I master" and "limit the number of distractive factors" and whatever the reason. But all the time I was missing one thing. Although I subconsciously found the right approach to the format, I did everything in the wrong way: the trouble is not in the decks, neither it's in my inability to play them, the trouble is in the format alone.

For me (and yeah, this is very personal opinion, and feel free to not agree), Legacy became really boring format in last two or three years, with tournaments that became similar to the Friday evenings: you leave home expecting fun, and the closer you get to the pub, the more you're saying to yourself "do I realy need to waste my time, money and liver with all those nerds and weirdos?"
And when my mindset is "wth am I doing here?" and "man, I'd love to be at home" and "I hope it won't be longer than six rounds", then it's not too surprising that I can't win anything. I may trim the decks however I wish to, and sculpt the perfect 75, but as long as I go to the lgs ALREADY DEFEATED, I won't win: that simple it is.

Legacy turned to a strange (and also very expensive) format full of retarded crap like Grisly and Emmie, annoying decks to beat like GW Bear Stax and Mono-W Bear Stasis and [insert color combination here] Delver decks; TNN is just a continuation of this trend.
If WotC really want to kill Legacy, then I guess they're doing it right. At least in my case.

[Snief]

This.



And... this.



Funny that you mention this.

No more than two years ago I was able to place myself quite often (and sometimes even take away some nice souvenir), be it top4 placement in CZK 10000 tournament (RUG), or dual for a 2nd place when the next lgs opened (ANT), or top8ing one of Zuzy Cup tournaments (RUG again?), the occasional Thursday wins I don't really remember (except when I won my sixth or seventh Flooded Strand). Today? Well, I haven't placed myself reasonably (not to mention any win) for two years.

Ok, but this might be due to the fact that I suck at this game of Magickal Gatherable Cards.

So I was looking for a remedy; I was systematically trimming down the decks I use (and also my whole collection) in attempt to "specialize in decks I master" and "limit the number of distractive factors" and whatever the reason. But all the time I was missing one thing. Although I subconsciously found the right approach to the format, I did everything in the wrong way: the trouble is not in the decks, neither it's in my inability to play them, the trouble is in the format alone.

For me (and yeah, this is very personal opinion, and feel free to not agree), Legacy became really boring format in last two or three years, with tournaments that became similar to the Friday evenings: you leave home expecting fun, and the closer you get to the pub, the more you're saying to yourself "do I realy need to waste my time, money and liver with all those nerds and weirdos?"
And when my mindset is "wth am I doing here?" and "man, I'd love to be at home" and "I hope it won't be longer than six rounds", then it's not too surprising that I can't win anything. I may trim the decks however I wish to, and sculpt the perfect 75, but as long as I go to the lgs ALREADY DEFEATED, I won't win: that simple it is.

Legacy turned to a strange (and also very expensive) format full of retarded crap like Grisly and Emmie, annoying decks to beat like GW Bear Stax and Mono-W Bear Stasis and [insert color combination here] Delver decks; TNN is just a continuation of this trend.
If WotC really want to kill Legacy, then I guess they're doing it right. At least in my case.

Although this is your personal opinion I have to tell you that I can't agree with you. I think legacy is as balanced as it gets for the first time in years. Sure, there is always some annoying card but TNN isn't one of them (I mean, a three mana creature, really?). I honestly cannot remember the number of games I lost despite having TNN in board.
The real problem in Legacy is imo the community which won't adapt to the new cards because they assume playing the straight same deck for 5 years (e.g. RUG) despite it being up to date with the modern metagame will do them any good. Additionally in Legacy play skill has become more important than ever; I won't say that the average eternal player is a bad player (same old, same old) but you can't throw together your deck 5min before the tournament and expect to make a decent finish. Proper preparation, play testing and thinking outside the box is the key.

[testing32]

Although this is your personal opinion I have to tell you that I can't agree with you. I think legacy is as balanced as it gets for the first time in years. Sure, there is always some annoying card but TNN isn't one of them (I mean, a three mana creature, really?). I honestly cannot remember the number of games I lost despite having TNN in board.
The real problem in Legacy is imo the community which won't adapt to the new cards because they assume playing the straight same deck for 5 years (e.g. RUG) despite it being up to date with the modern metagame will do them any good. Additionally in Legacy play skill has become more important than ever; I won't say that the average eternal player is a bad player (same old, same old) but you can't throw together your deck 5min before the tournament and expect to make a decent finish. Proper preparation, play testing and thinking outside the box is the key.

This. People complain every time a new card is printed that makes their pet decks unplayable. TNN is fine.

Cards that could be unbanned without a problem - Mind's Desire, Bargain, Frantic Search, Earthcraft, Mind Twist and Black Vise.

The delver and esper decks are slanted hard to beat the fair decks. Storm needs some love. Mind Twist and Black Vise aren't even good cards.

[MGB]

People seem to forget that TNN + equipment isn't the only problem.

TNN in multiples is also quite hideous since your ground forces can be stalled forever while taking the beatdown, making racing rather hard - and you can't simply deal with those as easily as equipment, like some people suggested.


If Mystical Tutor can be banned because the format is more fun without it, I fail to see how a even more unfun card that actually warps the meta around it should stay unbanned.

How long does it take people to see that TNN reduces diversity alot - RUG Delver is dying (it only still puts up results because people own the cardboard - on MODO, it already has been completely replaced by BUG Delver and Patriot), non-blue midrange is dead and Storm is also on life support.

Playing different flavors of TNN + SFM package with a few different spells is not format diversity.

What boogles my mind the most is how people can acknowledge its shitty design and still argue against a ban "because reasons". Sure, some non-shitty answers exists, but threats > answers. If the answers were actually sufficient, Jund wouldn't be disappearing from the format since it can pack tons of answers to TNN - discard, Liliana, Golgari Charm, (Deed).

Exactly. This post details my thoughts precisely.

You *can* deal with TNN, but overall, it's like trying to deal with Survival of the Fittest. It makes you run a bunch of crappy cards you otherwise wouldn't run, and in the end, you'll still lose the majority of your games against TNN decks. Unless you want to run TNN decks yourself, and then the format becomes even more of the "Play an X variant or play an anti-X variant or lose". Just like it was in the Vengevival hey-day.

Additionally, I don't know if maybe Stoneforge Mystic isn't the card that should be banned. In some ways it is like a weaker Oath of Druids that, for two mana, can invalidate most aggro decks. If they don't ban TNN, they have to ban Stoneforge Mystic. Legacy can probably support one of the two, but not both.

[testing32]

Exactly. This post details my thoughts precisely.

You *can* deal with TNN, but overall, it's like trying to deal with Survival of the Fittest. It makes you run a bunch of crappy cards you otherwise wouldn't run, and in the end, you'll still lose the majority of your games against TNN decks. Unless you want to run TNN decks yourself, and then the format becomes even more of the "Play an X variant or play an anti-X variant or lose". Just like it was in the Vengevival hey-day.

This is not like SotF. This is like Emrakul or Griselbrand.

[Star|Scream]

This.



And... this.



Funny that you mention this.

No more than two years ago I was able to place myself quite often (and sometimes even take away some nice souvenir), be it top4 placement in CZK 10000 tournament (RUG), or dual for a 2nd place when the next lgs opened (ANT), or top8ing one of Zuzy Cup tournaments (RUG again?), the occasional Thursday wins I don't really remember (except when I won my sixth or seventh Flooded Strand). Today? Well, I haven't placed myself reasonably (not to mention any win) for two years.

Ok, but this might be due to the fact that I suck at this game of Magickal Gatherable Cards.

So I was looking for a remedy; I was systematically trimming down the decks I use (and also my whole collection) in attempt to "specialize in decks I master" and "limit the number of distractive factors" and whatever the reason. But all the time I was missing one thing. Although I subconsciously found the right approach to the format, I did everything in the wrong way: the trouble is not in the decks, neither it's in my inability to play them, the trouble is in the format alone.

For me (and yeah, this is very personal opinion, and feel free to not agree), Legacy became really boring format in last two or three years, with tournaments that became similar to the Friday evenings: you leave home expecting fun, and the closer you get to the pub, the more you're saying to yourself "do I realy need to waste my time, money and liver with all those nerds and weirdos?"
And when my mindset is "wth am I doing here?" and "man, I'd love to be at home" and "I hope it won't be longer than six rounds", then it's not too surprising that I can't win anything. I may trim the decks however I wish to, and sculpt the perfect 75, but as long as I go to the lgs ALREADY DEFEATED, I won't win: that simple it is.

Legacy turned to a strange (and also very expensive) format full of retarded crap like Grisly and Emmie, annoying decks to beat like GW Bear Stax and Mono-W Bear Stasis and [insert color combination here] Delver decks; TNN is just a continuation of this trend.
If WotC really want to kill Legacy, then I guess they're doing it right. At least in my case.

So you haven't been doing well in tournaments because the format sucks?

[MGB]

This is not like SotF. This is like Emrakul or Griselbrand.

Emrakul or Griselbrand force you to build your entire deck around them.

You can either play Reanimator or you can play Sneak 'n Show. You have to resolve a 2-card combo, at MINIMUM, to enable these creatures - a combo that has many weak points that can be exploited through general-use main deck spells and general-use sideboard cards that can help multiple match-ups.

TNN doesn't require anything but blue mana. It can be shoved into anything. And the cards that can deal with it are mostly marginal stuff that doesn't have much general-use applications outside of specifically dealing with cards like TNN.

This is more similar to Survival because while you could play narrow hate to stop it, you will still open yourself up to losing to creature swarm by the SotF deck, or by some other kind of combo that invalidates your grave hate, or your enchantment hate, or whatever. If you stop Emrakul/Griselbrand decks from assembling their combo, they can't win any other way. If you play your narrow sideboard card against TNN, the TNN deck still has other creatures, or it has Jace, or it has anything else it can kill you with.

[testing32]

Emrakul or Griselbrand force you to build your entire deck around them.

You can either play Reanimator or you can play Sneak 'n Show. You have to resolve a 2-card combo, at MINIMUM, to enable these creatures - a combo that has many weak points that can be exploited through general-use main deck spells and general-use sideboard cards that can help multiple match-ups.

TNN doesn't require anything but blue mana. It can be shoved into anything. And the cards that can deal with it are mostly marginal stuff that doesn't have much general-use applications outside of specifically dealing with cards like TNN.

TNN can't be shoved into anything (Bant, TA). It's played almost exclusively with SFM in a tempo/control shell.

TNN kills RUG, Shardless, Maverick and Jund. It's not overwhelming top 8s. People cry about their pet decks.

Show and Tell kills zoo, lands and aggroloam. It's not overwhelming top 8s. People cry about their pet decks.

Seems pretty similar to me.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Although this is your personal opinion I have to tell you that I can't agree with you. I think legacy is as balanced as it gets for the first time in years. Sure, there is always some annoying card but TNN isn't one of them (I mean, a three mana creature, really?). I honestly cannot remember the number of games I lost despite having TNN in board.
The real problem in Legacy is imo the community which won't adapt to the new cards because they assume playing the straight same deck for 5 years (e.g. RUG) despite it being up to date with the modern metagame will do them any good. Additionally in Legacy play skill has become more important than ever; I won't say that the average eternal player is a bad player (same old, same old) but you can't throw together your deck 5min before the tournament and expect to make a decent finish. Proper preparation, play testing and thinking outside the box is the key.

But I didn't say saying Legacy is unbalanced, I said it's boring. And I'm not saying TNN is unbalanced (although maybe it is unbalanced), I'm saying it's boring. And this trend of overpowered and/or boring cards started few years ago and doesn't seem to stop soon.

I adapted. And if I wasn't that lazy-ass about sorting and scanning, I'd be even more adapted than I'm now...

Btw, I'm not sure what's so bad about playing the old decks, it was what brought me to Legacy at first. And I simply don't understand why someone's desire to play with new toys should be more valuable than my joy from playing with the old ones (welcome to the world of particular interests); especially when this isn't even the cause.

On the "you can't throw together your deck 5min before the tournament and expect to make a decent finish. Proper preparation, play testing and thinking outside the box is the key," part: ou missed my point.
The first thing I never done, and I don't know why you came to the opposite conclusion. The thinking outside of box has nothing to do with the boredom of Legacy, unless you meant something really different. In this case I thought out 450 Euros outside my boxes on GP:Prague just from the three Chinamen, but there were no TNNs involved.

So you haven't been doing well in tournaments because the format sucks?

Kind of.

[Lemnear]

Cards that could be unbanned without a problem - Mind's Desire, Bargain, Frantic Search, Earthcraft, Mind Twist and Black Vise.

Seriously?