[Deck] Death and Taxes

[Barook]

Jund was it primarily but any BGx with Liliana/Hymn Liege is a house against. Pox, because lol. Tempo, too--mostly as an indomitable beater.

I think about dropping it for something else. There are just too many TNN decks out there. 3 out of 4 decks were TNN decks in the last two daily events each. It's pretty ridiculous.

That said, I want to add more removal to my current board, preferable one that can hit Stoneforge, too (so Sunlance isn't the best choice). Any suggestions? I'm also playing with the thought of just adding a third Mangara and a Manriki Gusari instead, just to have more options to deal with those pesky equipments.

[Mr. Froggy]

How do you guys SB vs UWr Miracles?

I thought along the lines of Pithing Needle, Ratchet Bomb?

[Barook]

Ok, that's my board for the next DE:

2 Cataclysm
1 Mangara of Corondor
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Rest in Peace (personal preference, I don't like the 2/1 split with Relic)

1 Sword of Light and Shadow
OR
1 Sword of War and Peace

I'm still undecided what Sword is overall better in this metagame. Fast input on this would be nice since the next daily starts in 40 minutes.

[Looooooooo]

Ok, that's my board for the next DE:

2 Cataclysm
1 Mangara of Corondor
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Rest in Peace (personal preference, I don't like the 2/1 split with Relic)

1 Sword of Light and Shadow
OR
1 Sword of War and Peace

I'm still undecided what Sword is overall better in this metagame. Fast input on this would be nice since the next daily starts in 40 minutes.

Do you MD the sword of fire and ice? if so maybe L&S is better: you have access to protections for all the removal colors.
The trigger ability is similar for a part (life gain both, rarely W&P will gain you more life) but the most relevant second part IMO is the L&S part: been able to have access to CA with disruption (read hatebear) right now is more important than race damage.

- L

[Barbed Blightning]

I think about dropping it for something else. There are just too many TNN decks out there. 3 out of 4 decks were TNN decks in the last two daily events each. It's pretty ridiculous.

That said, I want to add more removal to my current board, preferable one that can hit Stoneforge, too (so Sunlance isn't the best choice). Any suggestions? I'm also playing with the thought of just adding a third Mangara and a Manriki Gusari instead, just to have more options to deal with those pesky equipments.

I run

2 Liege
2 Canonist
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Rest in Peace
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 E Tutor
1 E Bridge
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Cage
1 Manriki
1 Needle

Plenty of TNN solutions while still maintaining a few trumps against Jund

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

[Barook]

I can't run SoL before it's even released on MODO.

Went with SoLoS because with all those SFM around, pro black should be pretty good against Batterskull.

Just finished my first match against a D&T mirror in Round 1. I assume that "Michael Bonde" is the real thing, but he didn't say a word.

G1 was pretty entertaining. Both of us had a T2 Thalia and early tripple Wasteland. He was however too long stuck on a single Plains and just when he stabilized at 4 life with Aven Mindcensor + Flickerwisp + Mom against my Serra Avenger, I topdecked Karakas to get the Mangara engine running.

G2 I felt pretty bad for him, considering he had to mull to 4, and with only 7 minutes left on the clock, he conceded.

Edit: Running Manriki-Gusari is probably worth it in this kind of meta. Too bad that my last opponent in G3 had double TNN - fun...

[Richard Cheese]

Went 4-0, ID, ID to end up 3rd out of 50 at our recent TCGPlayer Bronze event. (shitty) Report here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...th-Black-Taxes

Still not sure if this deck belongs here or in Deadguy, so I'm posting in both threads to see what everyone else thinks.

[Rintanen33]

Hi guys!

Do you think that Mangara is still needed? I see more and more lists that are cutting him, but I always thought that he was one of the best outs to grindy match ups and in testing it performed well as always..

[berry]

Read comments in the thread for pages and pages back for information about playing or not playing Mangara. Also, combine with own experience and feelz.

[lambert101]

What about an aggro version of DnT. I was bored and brewed something like:

4 Karakas
4 Port
4 wasteland
10 Plains

4 Mom
4 Thalia
4 Stoneforge
4 Revoker
4 Spirt of the Labyrinth
4 Serra Avenger
2 Brimaz
1 Mangara

4 Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Sowrd of Fire and Ice
1 Jitte
4 StP

Board:
2 Rest in Peace
2 Disenchant
2 Wilt Leaf Liege
2 Cataclysm
2 Oring
1 Manriki
2 Cage
2 Ethersworn Cannonist

It keeps the curve down to 2 with only 4 3 drops to be more aggressive with creatures and the ability to use ports aggressive. TNN hate will be prevalent but I have seen less golgari charms and more dread of night/e plague hate hence the reasoning for disenchant and liege. Glorious anthem or a veteran armorer type card may also be useful.

[Barbed Blightning]

@Dick: I think most hybrid lists belong in the threads matching their colors; in this instance, Dead guy. Interesting list, however!

@Rintanen: Play Mangara. He's such a flexible out to so many things and proactive threat that he demands a response from your opponent. Play 2-3

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

[Tempus]

How do you guys like Batterskull?
I kind of never want to search for it, I have usually better things to do with my mana than hard casting it and we have enough creatures to equip any other equipment.

So what about SoFF or SoLI. I like the latter better, due to the recursion and life gain. You get by Griselbrand, Germ Tokens and everything in the mirror, but lose some game against Goblins (even though SoFI should be huge here)

[DavidHernandez]

How do you guys like Batterskull?
I kind of never want to search for it, I have usually better things to do with my mana than hard casting it and we have enough creatures to equip any other equipment.

So what about SoFF or SoLI. I like the latter better, due to the recursion and life gain. You get by Griselbrand, Germ Tokens and everything in the mirror, but lose some game against Goblins (even though SoFI should be huge here)

You know, I often don't want to go get the skull either...but when you're playing against a deck that has you on a clock, like any Delver deck; or a burn deck; or any Jund build; you absolutely need to land a Batterskull. The life gain and vigilance turn whole matches in your favor when you were about to lose.

For that reason, I think Batterskull needs to stay in the deck.

Oh, and he's a great beat-stick that can come in un-counterable on turn 3 with Stoneforge Mystic. That's pretty good too.

Dave

[Tempus]

You know, I often don't want to go get the skull either...but when you're playing against a deck that has you on a clock, like any Delver deck; or a burn deck; or any Jund build; you absolutely need to land a Batterskull. The life gain and vigilance turn whole matches in your favor when you were about to lose.

For that reason, I think Batterskull needs to stay in the deck.

Oh, and he's a great beat-stick that can come in un-counterable on turn 3 with Stoneforge Mystic. That's pretty good too.

Dave

I see where and why it's good, but I don't think that SFM survives against any of those decks. That why I'd go for SoLI because it also has lifegain. Vigilance is nice of course, but 5 mana is huge!

[Barbed Blightning]

I see where and why it's good, but I don't think that SFM survives against any of those decks. That why I'd go for SoLI because it also has lifegain. Vigilance is nice of course, but 5 mana is huge!

I used to think SoLS was better, too, but I was wrong. SFM->Batterskull will win games on its own and 5 mana isn't that bad if you are playing the deck right and are using many basics

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

[DavidHernandez]

Another positive point is the high threat density we have here. The opponent has to split their resources between you and your board in order to stay in the game. Mother of Runes can help keep the Stoneforge alive too.

[Barbed Blightning]

Another positive point is the high threat density we have here. The opponent has to split their resources between you and your board in order to stay in the game. Mother of Runes can help keep the Stoneforge alive too.

Precisely!

That's what makes this deck so good right now; everything is a must-kill target, but most decks just can't keep up (especially with Thalia/MD slowing them down) and, as a result, we have the inevitability.

Segue: I think, therefore, that Spirit of the Labyrinth isn't as great as the hype machine promised. She's good, just SB good. Non blue/combo decks will just ignore her, while our SoFI triggers suffer. Unlike the rest of our creatures, she's not a high priority target all the time.

Just my thoughts, though

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

[MrShine]

I agree. She is too much of a liability on the ground, dying to anything and everything :P At least revoker actually generates some temporary card advantage while he's still alive.

I doubt I'll be changing the Main too much, maybe trying out 1 Brimaz at the top end of the curve, although he'll be competing with Crusader for the slot.

[AggroSteve]

i havent posted here for a long time now, but have the deck allready for a really long time (when stonecloakers were still used instead of flickerwisp :P)

well, i have been thinking a lot lately about this deck again.... and started reading everyones postes again

the thing that i was most interested is, let say the "flex-slots" for creatures in the maindeck (aven mindcensor, serra avanger, mirran crusader, mangara, and now a new spicy one with brimaz)

i for my part did never like mindcensor, i found him weak and usefull only in very few situations

i allways liked serra avanger and never moved away from her, even during the big hype of mirran crusader instead of her

mirran crusader actually is very powerfull, and i think i will cut a mangara from my list and a avanger for either him or brimaz

mangara of corondor will definitely NEVER leave my list,.... i won so many games thanks to him and a karakas that otherwise i would never have been able to win, its ridiculous (cutting him down to 2 hurts a lot)

when brimaz got spoilered i was like ,.... he is tailor made for this deck, he has a big body, generates card advantage in all combatcentered matchups, plus he is legendary

well.... since i have been gone for quite some time now, i would ask you guys for your advice
which one would you prefer in the following list (brimaz or crusader, and reasoning behind)

MOSTLY STANDARD LIST
3 horizon canopy
4 wasteland
3 rishadan port (sucks i know, but i can't seem to get my hands on a 4th)
3 karakas (4th is used in my Rock deck, but 3 is still fine IMO)
10 Plains

4 mom
4 talia
4 SFM
4 revoker
4 flickerwisp
3 avanger
2 mangara of corondor
2 BRIMAZ / MIRRAN CRUSADER

4 vial
4 swords to plowshares
1 batterskull
1 umezawas jitte
1 sword of fire/ice

standard sideboard more or less

thanks in advance for all your thoughts

[Barbed Blightning]

i havent posted here for a long time now, but have the deck allready for a really long time (when stonecloakers were still used instead of flickerwisp :P)

well, i have been thinking a lot lately about this deck again.... and started reading everyones postes again

the thing that i was most interested is, let say the "flex-slots" for creatures in the maindeck (aven mindcensor, serra avanger, mirran crusader, mangara, and now a new spicy one with brimaz)

i for my part did never like mindcensor, i found him weak and usefull only in very few situations

i allways liked serra avanger and never moved away from her, even during the big hype of mirran crusader instead of her

mirran crusader actually is very powerfull, and i think i will cut a mangara from my list and a avanger for either him or brimaz

mangara of corondor will definitely NEVER leave my list,.... i won so many games thanks to him and a karakas that otherwise i would never have been able to win, its ridiculous (cutting him down to 2 hurts a lot)

when brimaz got spoilered i was like ,.... he is tailor made for this deck, he has a big body, generates card advantage in all combatcentered matchups, plus he is legendary

well.... since i have been gone for quite some time now, i would ask you guys for your advice
which one would you prefer in the following list (brimaz or crusader, and reasoning behind)

MOSTLY STANDARD LIST
3 horizon canopy
4 wasteland
3 rishadan port (sucks i know, but i can't seem to get my hands on a 4th)
3 karakas (4th is used in my Rock deck, but 3 is still fine IMO)
10 Plains

4 mom
4 talia
4 SFM
4 revoker
4 flickerwisp
3 avanger
2 mangara of corondor
2 BRIMAZ / MIRRAN CRUSADER

4 vial
4 swords to plowshares
1 batterskull
1 umezawas jitte
1 sword of fire/ice

standard sideboard more or less

thanks in advance for all your thoughts

I'm doing your list, with 2 Mufasa ( crusader always felt over hyped, IMO) and may be cutting an avenger for a third Mangara. I agree, the old fucker has pulled me out of some nasty situations. I'll be shaving an avenger or wisp

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.