[Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

[mini1337s]

What. The. Fuck. Underground Sea at $250? Mana crypt at $275?!? I just bought one at $70 2 weeks ago. What just happened?

Where the hell are you seeing Mana Crypt at $275?! I see $150, but not as high as $275.

I have a decent enough income that allows me to spend a silly amount of money on this game, but some of these price increases are a bit unnerving. I suppose Legacy will simply become a format where most players (especially new ones) will only ever be able to build a single deck, rather than a gauntlet. I'm certainly not in "sky-is-falling" territory, but these are some pretty high prices for 4 of staples. I'd hate to see this format go the way of non-proxied Vintage.

[Koby]

And people actually defend SCG for that crap. A 70$ increase? C'mon.

"We've seen a recent trend for higher demands of counterfeiting. We're answering that by further increasing our prices on Eternal staples."

Well, I foresee much more business Chinamen will be getting soon.

[Barook]

I'd hate to see this format go the way of non-proxied Vintage.

I doubt that's going to happen. China fakes are getting better and better and at some point, they're probably going to be undistinguishable from the real thing.

[mini1337s]

I doubt that's going to happen. China fakes are getting better and better and at some point, they're probably going to be undistinguishable from the real thing.

I'm not convinced that will be the case. Even in the event of readily available fakes, I can not see serious players or collectors even bothering with them. You have no resell value with any of your cards, unless you try to sell them as the real deal on eBay, etc. I believe if anything, fakes with increase sales for reputable online dealers.
I understand why SCG raises prices, and I don't have a problem with that. They have a limited supply of cards, incredible demand for NM copies of those cards, and a ton of real expenses to cover (payroll and events in particular). It's unfortunate that push has come to shove, and prices are well beyond what most people would consider reasonable. I didn't live through it in Vintage, but have an understanding of the cost of Power driving many players from the format.
I suppose my real concern is when SCG Buylisting more appealing than playing the game. I love Magic, especially Legacy, but the ability to transfer my cards into a $35000 check is pretty appealing. For a guy in his early 20s, that's a decent chunk of change, enough to put a real down payment on a home. It would break my heart though, as I'm an active, influential member of the local MTG community and love every second of the game. Ugh... just my thoughts, have to type it out.

[miguelmatix]

"We've seen a recent trend for higher demands of counterfeiting. We're answering that by further increasing our prices on Eternal staples."

Well, I foresee much more business Chinamen will be getting soon.

So true... Sad but true...

[Barook]

I'm not convinced that will be the case. Even in the event of readily available fakes, I can not see serious players or collectors even bothering with them. You have no resell value with any of your cards, unless you try to sell them as the real deal on eBay, etc. I believe if anything, fakes with increase sales for reputable online dealers.

Collector items like beta Underground Seas and so on would keep their price, but all the other staples?

Their price bubble would crash and burn since their price is merely based on artificial scarcity. Nobody would pay 1000+$ for a playset of Revised Underground Seas when there's an undetectable fake playsets for 25$ on Ebay. We haven't reached that point yet, but I believe it's bound to happen sooner or later that the fakes hammer out the last issues, especially with so much money on the line.

[Mr.C]

It's amusing to think that when Vintage started, uh, 'dying' (around 2004, 2005, I think), you could buy a fully powered, Tier 1, Vintage deck for about $3800. Mind you, this deck was *very*, expensive, running Seal, 4 Shops and a Bazaar on top of the P9.

(Roland Chang's 2005 Vintage Championship list, with historical prices pulled from Apathy House, assuming EX condition or better):

1 Barbarian Ring 1.00
1 Bazaar of Baghdad 150.00
4 City of Brass 2.00
3 Gemstone Mine 12.00/all
4 Mishra's Workshop 800.00/set
1 Strip Mine 1.50
1 Tolarian Academy 15.00
4 Wasteland 35.00/all
19 lands

4 Goblin Welder 32.00
1 Gorilla Shaman 0.50
1 Karn, Silver Golem 2.00
1 Sundering Titan 2.00
1 Triskelion 1.00
8 creatures

1 Ancestral Recall 400.00
1 Balance 1.50
1 Black Lotus 700.00
1 Crop Rotation 0.50
3 Crucible of Worlds 10.00
1 Demonic Tutor 6.00
1 Imperial Seal 175.00
1 Mana Crypt 30.00
1 Mana Vault 1.50
1 Memory Jar 1.50
1 Mox Emerald: 280
1 Mox Jet: 320
1 Mox Pearl: 280
1 Mox Ruby: 320
1 Mox Sapphire: 300
4 Smokestack 16.00/all
1 Sol Ring 3.00
3 Sphere of Resistance 7.00/all
4 Tangle Wire 12.00/all
1 Tinker 1.50
1 Tormod's Crypt 1.00
1 Trinisphere 1.00
1 Vampiric Tutor - 8.00

When you look at Feline's thread:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...(started-2012)

You see that the most expensive deck is approaching $3300 already! The next 19 decks all cost $2000+. With Magic competing with all sorts of more affordable entertainment, I'm not sure how these prices are sustainable for much longer, to be honest.

[humppa]

Guys, wake up and stop bitching (ok, I know, Bitching is in the topic name...)

We are really lucky guys, all of us. Why? Because we have a hobby that costs us a lot of money, but when we would choose to quit it, we will received that money back (probably a lot more).

All my friends have hobbies too. RC models, horses, cars, ... and what all those hobbies have in common? You never ever see your money again.

So - stop bitching. We all have a lot of fun and we are not losing money (yet).

If the sky will fall, there should be only one really bad end - we will lose our money. But - this is how all other hobbies work all the time.

Look at you in the mirror and say: "I am lucky bastard, because my hobby is not only fun, it is also NOT a money trash!"

---
sorrry, my english is a little bit rusty, but I hope you get the point.

[Phelix]

Guys, wake up and stop bitching (ok, I know, Bitching is in the topic name...)

We are really lucky guys, all of us. Why? Because we have a hobby that costs us a lot of money, but when we would choose to quit it, we will received that money back (probably a lot more).

All my friends have hobbies too. RC models, horses, cars, ... and what all those hobbies have in common? You never ever see your money again.

So - stop bitching. We all have a lot of fun and we are not losing money (yet).

If the sky will fall, there should be only one really bad end - we will lose our money. But - this is how all other hobbies work all the time.

Look at you in the mirror and say: "I am lucky bastard, because my hobby is not only fun, it is also NOT a money trash!"

---
sorrry, my english is a little bit rusty, but I hope you get the point.

My horse i amazing.

In other news, yes of course, many hobbies are more expensive (strippers, powerboating comes to mind as the two most obvious)

that aside, there is a point comparing to old vintage.

[Higgs]

Where the hell are you seeing Mana Crypt at $275?! I see $150, but not as high as $275.

It was from the initial link Undomain provided. I then checked TCGplayer and it was something around $230. Ebay people had it around $130 yesterday but most stores were out of stock, probably updating their prices so I was shocked. Can't check much at the moment.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

There's a problem with other hobbies.
RC models are made of w/e they are made of. They also use engines.
Horses are living animals.
Cars are similr to RC models, only bigger.

On the other hand, wer'e playing with pieces of paper. If not for the artificial scarcity*, they'd be far more cheaper, it's not like we're in 30th century BC China and paper was just discovered.

Also, the facts that I may sell my cards someties in future, and that they are expensive, do not help when building the deck. It's not like I may pull 2000 CZK out of my wallet, throw them in KMC matte and be fine with it.
Moreover, when you don't have those 2000 CZK to fill the void in your last 60/75, it doesn't help you that you got the rest of he deck, and you simply can't take 50 CZK and glue the hole. The last time I checked, Tarmogoyfs were making results, not Erhnam Djinns.

Maybe I'm more cryptic than necessary, but you get my point, don't you?

*) Call it however else you wish to, but as long as WotC doesn't reprint it's own product even though there's a high demand for it, I call this artificial scarcity. Moreover, the whole game would be far more cheaper if ppl would open the boosters, but when there is nothing to find in them (except for Limited), what's the point of buying?

[Kage]

I think magic's main competition are video and other board games, not car collectors and horse owners. If you want something to play with 3-4 times a week I think you get a better mileage if you're burning 100 bucks for a copy of CounterStrike and Starcraft 2 than on a 1500$ Legacy deck. Or play Hearthstone, Netrunner, whatever, you name it.

[Megadeus]

Meh im fine with paying a lot knowing I can get that same value generally out if I ever need to. It is annoying because I am on a tight budget, but I get through. Playing magic is fun to me. Hanging out with the buddies I have made is fun. Going on trips with those buddies is fun. For me it is also the social aspect of the game so I am fine with it.

[bkemke]

... and Dark Depths is crazy expensive http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Dark+Depths+%5BCSP%5D

Speculation that it gets unbanned in modern?

[JPoJohnson]

... and Dark Depths is crazy expensive http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Dark+Depths+%5BCSP%5D

Speculation that it gets unbanned in modern?

No chance.

[sdematt]

More decks are using it in Legacy to trounce TNN.

-Matt

[clavio]

There has to be a point where prices can't get any higher. There's a price where players will say no, fuck that, I can't/won't buy your $500 Underground Sea.

[sdematt]

At some point, I'd rather sell my stupid revised sea for infinite value and play something else. Man, if revised Seas climbed that high, I'd ship a playset for Ermenegildo Zegna suit. In a heartbeat.

-Matt

[danyul]

I'd sell my entire collection, buy the most tricked out laptop possible + maybe a new car, and try out this "real life adult" thing that I've been avoiding for years.

[TsumiBand]

There has to be a point where prices can't get any higher. There's a price where players will say no, fuck that, I can't/won't buy your $500 Underground Sea.

Apparently that point just doesn't exist for enough people, because everyone who claims to be 'in the know' about this junk (retailers/traders/speculators/players/collectors/whoever) have the same retort on tap:

"Demand is always out there, people will always pay for this shit, there are only so many and if you really want to win you will play these cards. Come at me bro; BTW free S/H for orders over [price_of_scrubland + price_of_random_crap_rare_from_gatecrash], supplies are limited."

FWIW, my threshold was surpassed a long time ago, but I'm just one guy not buying old cards in a Legacy scene that dried up like a Martian riverbed, so why should any retailer give a fuck what I think? The minute I can no longer be sold this product, I was "never the target market anyway". There's always another up-and-comer that doesn't know any better or has no memory of $10 ABRU duals from the turn of the century, so may as well put another 5% on the price of those Force of Wills and open up shop bright-n-early for the next wave of players who will turn their heads around 2, 3, 5 years from now and go "hey remember when Taigas were only like $60 bucks? The hell happened?"